Yo Halfcrazy.
I got my home made voltage clamp all wired up but I'm having a hard time understanding how to setup the aux function to protect the Classic from overvoltage.
I can make the relay toggle on and off, but I want it to put out 12V to this little Omron relay that controls my contactor. I can't figure how to test that.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm without wind charging until I get this sorted out :(
Edit: I figured out how to configure the jumpers. So that part is working. Yay!
I am using PV V trigger+ with a high volts of 140 and a low volts of 135 and a delay of ten seconds. Do these settings sound correct?
Lastly, which wind graph should I use with an otherpower built 10 footer and otherpower blades? Got a good profile dialed in for that?
Do you want the 12vdc all the time unless the voltage is high or just when the voltage is high?
I built your home made voltage clamp. I want the volts to go high to energize the contactor to short the turbine before the thing goes over 150V and lets the smoke out of my controller
I tested it with the menu and it works. I just want to know what menu settings (voltage, time) to use.
Also, I'm using the default 12V graph. It kind of scares me how fast the turbine runs with the default 24V graph.
Since you have one of these, any ideas on an effective graph?
Ok for a dc output on high voltage input set AUX 1 to "PV V trigger +". Make sure when you go to the first Aux menu that you set Aux 1 to PV V Trigger + there will also be a manual on and off. the voltages you had look about right I may trigger a little earlier but wait and see what you are happy with. I also ran one that went up to 145vdc equally spaced but that may be a little close for a 150v unit. I would suspect the ideal curve would run fairly equally up to say 125vdc at 40ish amps then taper fairly flat on the top to limit top RPMS. I am pretty certain my curve below tends to keep the turbine a little below its optimal TSR through the curve.
The turbine graph I used was similar to this here: I suspect this curve would be more Ideal
0A-50V 0A-50V
4A-55V 4A-56V
8A-60V 8A-62V
12A-65V 12A-68V
16A-70V 16A-74V
20A-75V 20A-80V
24A-80V 24A-86V
28A-85V 28A-92V
32A-90V 32A-98V
36A-95V 36A-104V
40A-100V 40A-110V
44A-105V 44A-116V
48A-110V 48V-122V
52A-115V 52V-131V
56A-120V 56V-133V
60A-125V 60V-135V
Thanks so much for the help! I'm up and running!
Hi Volvo...
10 Seconds for delay is too long I think. Make it more like 0.0 or 0.1 seconds and maybe
a hold time of one second or so. That will help keep it from click-clacking away but
keep it fast enough to save the day.
boB
Vf,
Congrat's! Keep us posted on your experiences with this.
~kitestrings
Came home this afternoon, wind turbine screaming and smelled electronic smoke in the power shed :o
Just in case anyone cares. 24V coil contactors are rated for 24VAC, not 24vDC. The contactor coil was shorted out, fuse blown and the classic was in float and going in and out of hyperVOC. I don't know if it survived or not yet. I never saw over 157V but it sat for an hour or two freewheeling before I got home. I got another contactor with a 120VAC coil and will re-wire and hopefully my new contactor will last longer than three hours this time :-\
So I'm just getting my head wrapped around this. If the classic goes to float, and my c60 dump load voltage is set above the Classic's float voltage, the only thing keeping the turbine running away is this voltage clamp shorting and un-shorting the turbine? What kind of hysteresis am I going to see on that?
This is beginning to get complicated.
If the Classic is showing any voltage say 5vdc or more on the input than it is probably ok. I would set things up so the absorb and float where higher Mine is set for 61vdc for absorb and 60.9 for float than my dump load is set for 59.2.
The real issue with the contactor is it really is just a fail safe a clipper like Edwards or the one we are building at MidNite will actually just clip the extra power the Classic does not need.
Quote from: Volvo Farmer on April 25, 2011, 05:05:09 PM
....and the classic was in float and going in and out of hyperVOC.....
... I never saw over 157V but it sat for an hour or two freewheeling before I got home.
This leads me to believe that the Classic is fine. 157 Volts is not a problem for a 150V Classic.
(if it didn't go a lot higher than this)
Quote from: Volvo Farmer on April 25, 2011, 05:05:09 PM
This is beginning to get complicated.
Yes ! Of course it is ! You're on the bleeding edge of technology, right ?
Consider yourself a pioneer of sorts.
boB
Vf,
Sounds like a scare for sure. Hopefully no damage. Not to back-seat-quarterback but there are relays with 12 & 24VDC signal inputs (coils if mechanical), 3-32 VDC is quite common. I think boB & Edward scoped out a couple.
Ryan,
Do you have a similar table for the 17'-footer you set up, and we talked about?
Thanks for sharing - some are quick to post their successes; less likely to share the setbacks. There's as much to be learned from the latter. And, we should all have to repeat the same mistakes. (I take pride in finding new ones ;)).
Unfortunately, sometimes the pioneers are the ones with some arrows in there backs...
~kitestrings
QuoteAnd, we should all have to repeat the same mistakes. (I take pride in finding new ones ).
Make that, "And, we
shouldn't all have to repeat the same mistakes."
~kitestrings
Okay. Big props to the guy who designed this Classic thing because it survived! Had a little scare where the Aux wouldn't go low and the display said "Got Comm?" But a quick reset of the breakers solved it.
A 120V coil mechanical contactor was about $40, and available off the shelf at the local Johnstone. Despite being on the bleeding edge of technology, I kinda like hearing a big click and hum to confirm that the crowbar is in the spokes.
Back up and running. Ryan, thanks for the advice on setting the Classic absorb voltage higher than the dump voltage on the C60. That's basically how it worked before. I don't know what I was thinking when I set the absorb and float the same as the solar.
Hi there...
As to amke the right tabel to programm teh classic, I have made an excel spreadsheet which gets pritty close to what are the right values to start with. It seems to work really nice.
You type in your alterntor parameters and some of your turbine specs/estimations and it will give you the loaded DV Power versus output power.
I hope that will help you people as much as it did help me :-)
It was orgiginally made for the aurora grid inverter, so I here I added the last tabel of current for the abttery system.
If you want to use it for grid inberters, then ignore "system voltage" and the last column with amps.
Max
[attachment deleted by admin]
Thanks Max! I will study that excel spreadsheet some more and see if it helps with programming my Classic.
Edward
Thanks for the spreadsheet Max. I'm sure it will help creating a turbine profile.
Andy
Max (or others):
Since I didn't build my wind turbine, I am not sure what the best values to enter for these parameters. Can someone explain these. I recognize TSR, but I do not know what value to enter for my turbine. The other 3 parameters I am not sure what they mean.
% prop
TSR
R betw. 2 Ph.
U/RPM DC
Thanks,
Edward
I did some more studying and I have used the following data for my HY-2000 wind turbine:
% prop = 40% (assuming a Cp of 0.4 for blade efficiency)
TSR = 7.30 (based on data I had from the manufacturer)
R betw. 2 Ph. = 0.66 (not exactly sure what this is, but I assumed it'd be standard for 3 phase alts)
U/RPM DC = 0.17 (volts/rpm - I was able to get this one from actual factory data on my turbine)
I have created a new wind curve in my Classic based on the data generated by the Excel spreadsheet, and I will see how it works the next time the wind blows.
Thanks again Max for the helpful (and fun) spreadsheet to experiment with!
Edward
Edward,
I will be keeping an eye out for the results you get from using Max's spreadsheet for your Classic wind curve.
I believe the "R betw. 2 ph" is the line to line resistance of the alternator. Max uses this to calculate the (U Loaded AC) loaded voltage out and the electrical efficiency of the alternator.
If the results of your efficiency is off you could adjust this number up or down to get closer to your measured numbers. The same is true for the loaded alternator voltage. Make the number smaller to increase the voltage and larger to lower the calculated voltage on the spreadsheet.
Max, correct me if I have missed the point and thanks again for your work.
Good luck with the wind curve Edward I will be following you with my own in the near future.
Andy
Thanks for the information Andy.
My wind turbine is shut down for now while I have my Classic worked on by Midnite. Last night, I accidently uncovered a situation where the input voltage can climb too high. No problem, boB and Ryan immediately responded and talked with me on the phone extensively to troubleshoot what happened. Midnite is going to repair my Classic ASAP and get me up and running again. Great customer service!
I'll have to comment on the new wind curve results after I get my Classic back.
Edward
Thanks for the good service kudos, Edward, but that problem shouldn't have occurred in the first place.
Remember to NOT let the step 01 and step 02 Amps be the same until I fix that in software so
that it can't happen even if you do try to. Also the other steps, just in case they can present
a similar problem and leave step 01 cutin Amps at 0 as well.
boB
Quote from: boB on May 14, 2011, 07:45:39 PM
Thanks for the good service kudos, Edward, but that problem shouldn't have occurred in the first place.
boB, With a product as complicated and sophisticated as the Classic, I think it's very understandable that some of these things would not surface during initial product testing. Besides, you never can tell what a crazy end user might do at 1AM in the morning with a hyperactive index finger punching the keys too fast in wind editor mode! ;D
The Classic is a great product and it will only get better over time as some of these details come to the surface and are worked out. In the meanwhile (before the software is updated), I'll try to slow down my hyperactive index finger and be careful not to let the AMP setting between 2 step points be equal! :)
Edward
Hi There,
Weisea is right,
R betw. 2 Ph. means the resistance you measure between 2 oft the 3 Phases of your alternator. This is a critical number. The higher the restistance of the alternator, the higher the internal voltage drop inside the alternator and thus the lower the loaded voltage which is what we need for the power curve.
You can find out about that by taking a multimeter and measure the resistance between 2 Phases.
I believe the curves created with my tool will, for most turbines, be good to start with. But still, perfomance can be increased for each individual turbine by playing around with the numbers a little, depending on the airfoil used and especially also depending on the location of the turbine. In verry gusty areas for example, I would alsways have the prop run a liitle above design TSR to better pick up gusts...
This isn' an exact science :-D
Anyway, for my aeocon inverter it works fine :-)
Max
Thanks for clarifying Max. I will measure the resistance between 2 phases on my turbine.
Edward
When trying to measure the resistance between 2 phases of my wind turbine alternator, the readings kept bouncing around all over the place. The turbine was not spinning. I have an older Fluke digital mulitimeter and I set it to the 200 Ohm range. The numbers kept changing so much that I could not get a useful reading of the resistance.
Could this be because the resistance is so low that this multimeter is unable to measure it accurately?
Edward
I think you are right...the resistance is too low and also there may be noise pick up on the meter.
Set up a battery and a series resistor to put at least 1 Amp of dc current through the 2 phases of the alternator winding. Measure the voltage drop across the 2 phases and divide by the measured current to get resistance. The Fluke should be able to give a fairly accurate result.
Andy
Thanks for the idea, Andy.
- Edward
I do not think that the resistance is to low for the multimeter to detect ist. If it was so, it would just show zero. Anyway, depending on the size of your turbine it should be something between 0,3 and 2 Ohms...
Try another multimeter and make sure, the turbine is not moving at all.
Max
Hi,
I dont know if anybody else has tried this, but I use three surge resistors in series with the AC output of the turbine so when you short the turbine it protects the windings, without the resistors my turbine would rattle when shorted, but its nice and smooth now. The only issue is getting the correct value surge resistor. I also have a timer devise (3mins or so) which lets the reistors cool down between the shorting out periods
Len, I also use resistors, but I have it wired so that I can first load down the turbine with resistors before shorting out the 3 phases. Sounds like you might have yours wired with the resistors in series with your shorting breaker. I do it in stages. First load down the turbine with resistors to slow it for a little while, and then flip a breaker that shorts out the 3 phases.