What if...

[keyturbocars]

While I'm waiting for my Classic 150 to arrive and also the other parts I've ordered, I've been thinking through how I'll have my system set up. 

I plan to have the Classic 150 set up with 3 phase SSR on AUX1 to divert to 3 phase heater box when Classic input voltage hits 125VDC.  AUX2 will be set up to divert DC power with a SSR to my auxillary hot water heater at set battery bank voltage (around 53.2V).  I will have the control circuit of the DC SSR wired with my hot water heater thermostat in series so IF the water heater heats and trips the thermostat, the control voltage to the DC SSR will be shut off and diversion to hot water heater will stop.

Here's the "What if"....

What if the hot water heater heats up and shuts off diversion?  What will the Classic do as the battery bank voltage rises?

I plan to manage things so that it should be very rare for the hot water heater thermostat to trip off.  Even so, I need to think through all the "what ifs" in order to be safe.  I have the Coleman Air controller that I could set up as a back up to divert battery power to 4kW hot air heaters at a higher voltage.  Not sure how that would work along with how the Classic will respond to battery bank voltage rising above its set point. 

Edward

[keyturbocars]

OK.  So it's true, that I talk to myself sometimes.  Yes, I'm a bit nutty.  So, now I'm going to reply to my own post and "talk to myself" electronically. 

My mind was chewing on my question, and I'm thinking/hoping that if my hot water heater diversion stops on AUX2, then the input voltage on the Classic might begin to rise and then my AUX1 3 phase diversion might kick in and keep things under control. 

I was hoping to remove the Coleman Air diverison controller from my system entirely, but I need to have at least 2 means of diverting power in my system.  If my hot water heater heats to the point that the thermostat trips off, then I need to divert power another way.  If the Classic would work like I mentioned above, then I think I might be OK. 

Edward

[Westbranch]

Ed, why have Aux 2 involved?  Can you not set up something to detect the 'end temp' on your HW tank and then a relay to send the power to another use rather than invoking Aux 2 to do something.  Or a larger HW tank?

Eric

[boB]

OK.  So it's true, that I talk to myself sometimes.  Yes, I'm a bit nutty.  So, now I'm going to reply to my own post and "talk to myself" electronically. 

My mind was chewing on my question, and I'm thinking/hoping that if my hot water heater diversion stops on AUX2, then the input voltage on the Classic might begin to rise and then my AUX1 3 phase diversion might kick in and keep things under control. 

Edward

You don't really need a diversion control on the battery output but it certainly won't hurt to do that too.

As long as the Aux 1 is keeping the turbine voltage from going over 150V or so, then you should have a charging source as long as the wind is blowing.

How a charge controller normally works, for solar or for wind, is to raise the input voltage to reduce the battery current and voltage.  It lets the input voltage come closer to an open circuit. If that open circuit voltage happens to be higher than your Aux 1 setpoint, then so be it....  That will be the highest voltage it will go to because your SSR or whatever turned off that input, or the input voltage didn't go any higher than some maximum value.

The Aux 2 that loads the Classic down can be thought as a fail-safe to help keep the battery and thus your turbine also loaded, as long as there isn't so much wind that the Classic cannot pass that current on to your battery.   But the Classic is going to raise the input voltage to reduce that amount of current and power so it won't matter if your battery side water heater load gets completely hot or not.

boB

[keyturbocars]

Ed, why have Aux 2 involved?  Can you not set up something to detect the 'end temp' on your HW tank and then a relay to send the power to another use rather than invoking Aux 2 to do something.  Or a larger HW tank?

Eric

True Eric, I wouldn't need to use AUX2.  I currently have the Coleman Air diversion controller all set up to divert power to my 80 gallon water heater.  I have a small thermostat switch that I installed on the water heater that turns off the diversion relay in the Coleman controller.  I just thought it'd be nice to consolidate and let the Classic control everything.  To be honest, I don't trust the Coleman Air diversion controller long term.

[keyturbocars]

As long as the Aux 1 is keeping the turbine voltage from going over 150V or so, then you should have a charging source as long as the wind is blowing.
.....
The Aux 2 that loads the Classic down can be thought as a fail-safe to help keep the battery and thus your turbine also loaded, as long as there isn't so much wind that the Classic cannot pass that current on to your battery.   But the Classic is going to raise the input voltage to reduce that amount of current and power so it won't matter if your battery side water heater load gets completely hot or not.

boB

Thanks for the reply boB.  I know you must be very busy lately! 

Thanks for the explanation.  I know that my set up is different than most, because I am not primarily charging batteries.  True, I do have a battery bank that needs charging, but I normally just need to keep it in float mode and ready for emergency situations.  Apart from floating my batteries, I am using most of my wind power to heat water.  That's how I help reduce my grid power consumption. 

A big concern of mine is to always make sure that the turbine is loaded down.  I do not want to stress the turbine by allowing it to overspeed unnecessarily.  With the air heating diversion on AUX1 and the water heating diversion on AUX2, then I should have enough fail safe in my system to keep my turbine loaded down.  I just prefer to convert most of the energy to hot water rather than just burning it off by heating the air.  This time of year, hot air inside the house would be good, but in the summer it would be bad.  It would raise my utility bill for additional heat pump running time cooling off the house.  That's why I have my air heating diversion mounted in the garage.   Hot water I can use all year round.  There's plenty of hot air in the house as is with me around.  Just ask my wife and kids! 

I'm starting to understand more how the Classic works.

Edward

[solarvic]

Edward.  Do you have any need for extra hot water when it is available? A thought is why cant you use the extra hot water for heating purposes. You could get a hotwater baseboard heater and put a circulating pump to circulate the hot water for heating when you needed a dump for your extra power.
   8)solarvic

[keyturbocars]

solarvic,

I've thought about something like that.  Would be good for winter time, but then in the late spring/summer/early fall it wouldn't work well because it's quite hot around here. 

We do use a lot of hot water in my family.  I have 7 children and the 9 of us use a lot of hot water with baths, showers, dishes, & laundry.  So, generally during the day time, I'll have no problem using as much hot water as the wind turbine can crank out.  During the night there's a possibility my water heater could heat up and trip off the thermostat.  Hasn't happened yet, but it's possible.

Edward

[kitestrings]

I've often thought that a simple thermal dump might be simplier, and perhaps cheaper (as the failsafe).  Consider for example that your existing dump/water heater has two 4 kW interlocked elements (I'm guessing, but just to illustrate) - if your water is cheap it would take a flow rate of only about 5-pints/minute of cold water (70 degF deltaT) to keep it energized indefintiely.

Unwanted heat can be a lot if it is building in a stator with nowhere to go, but it is not a huge thermal load.  More practically I suppose you could use the heat in the winter and dump it, or circulate it through a radiator, in the summer.

Our wind component is small now, but we typically manage it by turning on a few unnecessary (and less effcient) lights in sustained high wind periods.  kis?

~kitestrings

[keyturbocars]

kitestrings,

Yes, now I currently try to use up extra wind power by turning on some extra loads.  I do this as a precaution at night if I think the high winds will be sustained and the water heater might trip the thermostat, since there will not be much hot water useage at night.  With the new water mixer idea, I will be able to heat much more hot water, so that should work well. 

I do plan to have a thermal dump using air heating elements in addition to my water heater.

Edward