Today I was doing my normal (every 6 months) internal visual inspection of my two classics. Wasn't expecting anything odd just checking for dust - insect build-up and terminal connections are tight and cool.
Everything was fine though what I did find and wasn't expecting was one of the two internal fans on one of my classics wasn't turning and the other was.
Looks like I have one Dead fan. Just my luck it's on the classic that has the old chassis and needs the guts taken out just to get to the fans. >:(
So my questions are.....
Just to be sure both lower internal fans active at the same time? As in if one is on the other should be to? I looked at my 2nd classic that was running around the same temp (perhaps a tad higher at the time) and both fans where on running slow. Just wasn't sure if there was low fan stage when just one of the two fans ran and I had assumed it was one dead fan.
Where do I get the replacement fans from (I'm in Australia) I did watch the youtube video on replacing them and that there was a white mosfet gasket that was part of a (fan replacement kit?) Is it essential to replace the gasket even if its undamaged can it be reused?
That said just getting hold of the fan kit would be nice as I would have a spare fan and the gasket.
Kurt.
Hi Kurt,
Believe that the two internal fans run at the same time ... but cannot prove it.
IMO, if one of the internal fans has died, would certainly replace both of them at the same time.
Also believe that for the original chassis, there is a MOSFET insulator that is included with the kit. You should really replace it. Why take the chance of not replacing it, it is in the kit for a reason.
You could probably check with a local dealer of MN products, or perhaps Search for a MN Distributor for Australia.
I am no expert on these things, yet. The internal fans in one Classic here has a bit of a Buzzzzzzzz sound when they run, so expect that the bearings may be going ... this is also on an older Classic.
Others will have more direct experience.
Good Luck, Vic
Thanks Vic,
Yes I would swap out the two fans at the same time (spare would just be the old working fan and only used to get me out of trouble) I only asked if the white insulating gasket was reusable (if undamaged) as abtaining the fans only vs midnites fan kit might have been easer.
I even had a look on midnites webpage under the classic charge controller section. They list replacement control boards, Power boards, NMGP though I don't see a listing for a (Fan kit)?
If some one can give me a link to where I can get a (fan kit) from that would be great :)
Kurt
Hi Kurt,
OK on your fan reasoning, but, still, in the future that "spare" might not be worth the effort to install, as its sister had failed previously, with the same number of operating hours ... IMO
Searching on MidNite Product Stocking distributor in Australia:
1.
DC Solutions Australia PTY LTD
166 Christmas Street
Fairfield, 3078
Australia Ph: 03-9482-2203
Email: info@dcsolutionsaustralia.com.au www.dcsolutionsaustralia.com.au
2.
Outback Marine Australia Pty Ltd
3/7 Ereton Drive
Arundel QLD, 4214
Australia Ph: 07-5563-9088
Email: sales@outbackmarine.com.au www.outbackmarine.com.au
This might be a dated list, but perhaps worth asking them about a Classic Fan Kit for early Classics.
Had looked at the Fan Replacement Video some time ago ... Just my opinion, but if MidNite suggests that the insulator should be replaced, sure would replace it ... little to lose. Buying the fans from MN is also a safe bet ... those are the best fans available, so while you are at it, best bet is to get the whole Kit for older Classics, again IMO.
FWIW, Vic
That old classic was purchased from Dc-solutions. So I sent them a email yesterday to see if they know anything about the (fan replacement kit). See how I get on.
Though I have to say you would think considering it's a regular maintenance item (I think that classic is 5 years old or less) that the fan kit would be listed on midnites webpage. Downloading there full PDF price list catalogue its not even listed.
Perhaps just something that has been overlooked.
Kurt
Hi Kurt,
Have been running Classics here since December 2010. Have not had a fan failure, yet (it will probably happen eventually).
SO, it is quite possible that such issues are not at all common, so far. Perhaps there is simply not enough demand for Fan Kits to justify a listing in the Catalog.
The largest system here has a pair of Classics, each with an STC String Vmp of 93 V. Another system runs a String Vmp of 106 V, which is at the high end of the acceptable range for Classic 150s, which all Classics here, are ...
But for HOT conditions, there is more thermal stress on the CCs, and Au is probably generally HOT.
We DO use Air Conditioning in the Power Rooms, and it has Priority over dwelling A/C for greatest happiness of batteries and electronics.
Obviously, having fans in the Classics is one of the things that give Classics such high output current specs for such a physically small box, so I am a Fan ...
Good Luck, Vic
Quoteit is quite possible that such issues are not at all common, so far. Perhaps there is simply not enough demand for Fan Kits to justify a listing in the Catalog.
Well they do list replacement motherboards and power boards for the classic and I cant say they should be needing replacing as a service item.
My power room is fully insulated external concrete room that's only 8ft wide by 4 foot deep and has it's own dedicated minisplit 2.5kw airconditioner with the head unit about 3 feet from the two classics blasting refrigerated air directly at the classics , inverter and battery 24/7. Both classics have 4000w of pv each at around 80v for a 50v nom lithium system.
I don't think its the environmental conditions that have resulted in a dead fan just fans don't last forever (or it could just be the plug for that fan) shame you have the rip the guts out of the old models to even check the plug.
Kurt
Hi Kurt,
OOooopppppssss, guess that I insulted you ... SORRY !.
Had thought, possibly, that, perhaps, the Power and Control boards WERE in the Catalog, might be because CCs can be exposed to lightning damage, and perhaps fans, not so much.
Best of luck, Vic
LOL :) No not insulted and not upset.
To me having to replace a fan every 5 years or so for what ever reason (even just as a preventative job) Isn't a big deal to me happy to do so. Particularly on the newer models that slips out the back and its a 2 min job.
My post is more just a heads up to midnite to throw the kits up on there webpage and make them easy to purchase.
Going back through the (classic charge controller section) of the forum I did spot a few other posts of people looking for replacement fans for classics that had worn them out.
hi Kurt,
if you get into changing those fans you might look into noctua. they are expensive but very reliable and also very quiet. i had ordered one just in case, NF-4A x 10 FLX. (something like 40$ aus) it comes with all kinds of adaptors etc.
i suppose with the new midnite classics accessible from the back certainly makes it eassier. however you still have to remove all the wiring and then dismount them from the wall. suppose gives you an opportunity to clean out all the dust and dirt.
i also installed an 140mm external noctua fan underneath each of the midnite classics to add more cooling. hopefully the internal fans will not conk out after 5 years.
and yes i am somewhat amazed, midnite makes that first class product and then insert them cheap chinese fans to save 50c
Yes if it was just the fans that needed replacing then I would just pick up some high spec long life fans (yes noctua are good units) and job done. The snag is the need to replace the thermal gasket under the fets not a generic item so the midnite fan kit is what I need (or at lest the gasket)
If and when the fans go on my other classic (one with fan service hatch at the back) I Will upgrade them with after market.
My power room is dust free as its sealed and refrigerated. So all the fans are spotless in my power electronics . No real need for external fans as the aircon blows directly on the two classics.
My local midnite dealer got back to me and dosn't have the fan kits as a stocked item and suggested contacting midnite directly. So I have opened a ticked with midnite to sort out a fan kit.
I am Tempted to mill out a fan service hatch on the old classic chassis when I have the guts out of it just so I not need the fet gasket next time I need to service the fans on that old unit.
Kurt.
If the 2 main micro fans fail, and the turbo fan is unable to manage the heat, will the Classic fold back power to prevent it from BBQ'ing itself ? If you can run a robust enough external fan to prevent the turbo fan from engaging, you may be able to keep the gear within the "safe operating zone" and avoid the major surgery to replace fans
Yes I think that is most like what would work out ok and I think it will thermal throttle as a last resort. Though the turbo fan on that classic has never started even with 4000w of pv being pumped into it. Even the two internal fans only engages every now and then. The air conditioner is set at 21 deg C and the aluminium chassis of the classics gets a real soaking in that chilled air directly.
That said although the air conditioner has been running 24/7 for several years without issue. Though you cant always trust that you wont have a issue with the air conditioner at some point.so not the best idea to rely on it 100%. I'm a big fan (no pun intended) of double redundancy. So I do like how the classic runs two internal fans. As demonstrated with my unit one has failed but the other is doing the job ok until it can be fixed. I run two classics, two inverters, two separate PV arrays and have one large and one smaller battery bank. being 100% offgrid double redundancy is accentual.
watching the temperature versa power:
the last 20% of the power really ramps up the temperature. i found at full capacity (the 12V system,95A) even with air conditioner and external fan, the turbo fan still comes on. on occasion.
as for a sealed and dust proof power room, when i checked the fan blades of the external fans after a year, they still needed cleaning. there was a hard packed concrete like material on the blades. though that might be particular to my situation.
there is certainly a big advantage in designing components fanless. they might be larger and somewhat more expensive. but there is no problems with failing fans and critters and dust. at the other hand you could install 2 midnite classics in lieu of one to keep the electronics cool and have more redundancy onto the bargain.
i installed the midnite classics on metal plates. the external fan blows back and front of the metal plate. at 4000w the two fans still turn on. (with air conditioning)
so i can safely say, the midnite classic is not altogether maintenance free, though still one of the best products out there.
I opened I support Ticket with Midnite about obtaining a fan kit on the 8th Aug. Though no response to date. Is there usually long delays ? Perhaps I did something incorrect when filling it out.
Kurt.
Kurt,
don't forget "AMERICA FIRST"
don't worry they will get to you in a couple of years
Yes, smoke signals do not travel very fast... ;) ::)
I will give it until next week and then try again. Mitnite have always been great for customer service in the past.
Failing that I will rip the thing apart and fit my own fan replacement in (better quality non lucky star, yum cha brand) and make my own fet bar thermal gasket.
Kurt
Quote from: Westbranch on August 16, 2017, 08:21:02 PM
Yes, smoke signals do not travel very fast... ;) ::)
Miss Ryan for sure !
Well, I asked for a "FAN KIT" but these things come with a lot of work.
We have 2 KITs needed, old Classic with the FET silpad and the new one with out.
Each part, every screw nut & bolt at MN has a part number, everything is inventoried.
Each "KIT" is assigned a BOM (Bill Of Materials) number which includes all the part numbers so to relieve inventory.
This new number has to be assigned and put into the computer with the bazillion other BOM's.
Then, once we have a BOM, someone has to find a bag (it has a MN part# too) and put these together, then a place on the mile & ahalf shelf network needs to be assigned.
We are working on it.
Hi Kurt,
Sorry for the delay. The BOM has been created, looks like the final cost will be $39 and shipping would be expected to be under $10 in within the continental US. We should have this product available on the website for anyone who needs one in the next few days. I appreciate you bringing this to our attention. The lower fans are currently out of stock but should be available to ship in the next two weeks.
Sue
Thanks :) Wizbandit and Sue,
Sorry if I came across a little impatient. I Was dealing with a few other dramas at the one time. That all sounds very reasonable and will keep a lookout for the lower fan kit on your webpage.
Kurt.
then a place on the mile & ahalf shelf network needs to be assigned.
LOL all the way to the bank!
;D ::) ::)
I see the fan kits are up on the Midnite webpage now :) Thanks.
How do I go about purchasing one Do I need to order it through a distributor or can I purchase somehow directly from Midnite?
Thanks again.
Kurt.
Hi Kurt,
normally you would go through a distributor but if you have not ordered yet call me direct and we will get you taken care of. 360-403-7207x22
-Sue