https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLidTCqAAtY
http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/electric-big-rig-startup-nikola-comes-up-with-a-surpris-1789586024
As far as hydrogen as fuel is concerned. It is a non-starter AFAIK.
expensive to make.
impractical to transport
difficult to store
expensive new infrastructure
extremely flammable
still requires a fossil fuel electrical power plant to separate it from oxygen
for every 100% of electrical power produced conventionally and put into extracting hydrogen only 70% comes back out
This could be mitigated a little if they used solar power to create the electrical power required to extract the hydrogen in the first place.
I also see this as a better mouse trap , BUT !! I don't know it all , So I'll post & see how close im thinking.
VT
I did not take time to watch the video, not really interested these days. Having said that, I consider Hydrogen to be an energy carrier, not an energy source.Much like a battery. Not saying it is bad just that it is not really a way to reduce fossil fuel use. At least not yet. Cracking water with solar or other renewables might make it sensiible. Converting fossil fuels to hydrogen is a non starter, not quite as bad as corn to fuel with a net energy deficit, but a close second.
I am no expert but I just see it as another hyped up topic much like credits for limiting release and sequestering carbon.
Just my opinions
Tom
I agree totally with the Tom's comments about the conversion from Fossil fuels, but at times like this we solar enthusiasts may be of little influence, being outliers.... too logical/practical.... I see the movers/shakers in this play as being those in THE CITY that want to get fossil fuels off the streets, they will go hook, line and sinker for it... Vancouver BC has just passed a new bylaw outlawing the cleanest fuel to heat your house (Nat gas) in the city by 2020! so what are their alternatives, only one Electricity... at least they have Hydro sources,.... but the peaker plant is a nat gas burner!
All this BC BS & they have ordered 3 new LNG ferry vessels , How are they going to fuel them. 250 AC to separate from BC, VICTORIA gets a 604 AC !
I kinda agree also on the "Hydrogen to be an energy carrier, not an energy source."
I'm trying this solar as well , but my rain & cloud is killing the harvest .
VT
I found a youtube movie about a fellow in canada I suspect who runs his house off a large forklift pack (20 years old he stated)
He also has another array which is used to make hydrogen and it is stored in large gas tanks and this used during winter
to run whatever he has setup to charge the batteries during heavy snow episodes.
From memory there are 4-6 x 1000lb gas tanks in the system.
There are people out there using hydrogen.
Plenty of hydrogen generator units available here for bolt-ons for diesel trucks being sold.
So it does work, just have to pick the right application.
My mates dad has a lpg motor (5-10hp) laying in his shed. Brand new left over from when he sold them.
Would love to get my hands on it! Unsure of brand, but often wondered if it would run on hydrogen!
A Link Russ would be great On the youtube movie about a fellow in canada & He also has another array which is used to make hydrogen .
VT
I saw a TV bit long ago about a guy that collected the hydrogen & oxygen that was electrolyzed from his flooded batteries and he had modified his car engine to run on the re-combined hydrogen and oxygen + air.
As for power storage I think Tesla might have had the right idea to store power in the Schumann cavity and extract it from there. Battery issues solved. But alas, the gov't probably has his papers on the topic and would like us to ignore it. Tesla only invented, three phase AC generation and the electric motor that makes modern life possible, plus radio remote control and holds the true patent on air radio wave broadcast technology.
Hi,
Yes CDN I am sure that the fellow had 2 arrays. One was for the fork lift pack and the other was for his hydrogen production during the
summer months.
It is years since I have seen it, but I will try do a search now I have usable internet load again.
Had a look and no joy :o :(
But the same principle is now being used and the tech upgraded by companies. These are a couple of links.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my_EjR7zgu8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVuD9VoeLYE
Sorry could not find original youtube presentation, but that was over 5 years ago on night duty at work, lol!
Russ Close ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vel9LH57RII
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk08Mul_yfw
Not exactly the same one, but it is basically the same setup. I have watched this one as well.
The other old mates setup was not as fancy.
The setup in the video is really magic and a credit to the designer and installers.
BTW, I think Tesla's solution involved driving 85 foot ground rods. Driving my 8 foot DC grounds gave me enough trouble (rocky ground) this might be a bit beyond my DIY capabilities. ;D
I just do not understand why there is such a lack of work in regard to hydrogen as solar panels are so cheap nowadays?
Is it that complicated?
If my brain injured son can build a functioning small unit there seems to be something missing.
Storage and usage issues?
I have had the hots for a unit for my old diesel truck for a few years now.
Just coming up with the cash for a turbocharger and the hydrogen generator is a killer!
What comes first? Hydrogen or turbo?
I lean towards turbo as it is basic and not a complicated piece of equipment.
Storage is the problem. Hydrogen damages (embrittlement) most metals, even the expensive ones. And it's so light and airy, density is a problem, you have to compress and compress it, then store it for use.
I seem to recall that hydrogen also migrates right through most materials at a molecular scale so it is hard to contain long term.
I agree that low cost solar would seem to make cracking water for hydrogen more feasible on costs.
Some day I don't doubt it will be in common use somehow. Fuel cells, motor fuel or whatever. Just thinking if you crack sea water you get oxygen, hydrogen and salt. We all need oxygen constantly and salt occasionally! Win win. ;D
Tom
Quote from: TomW on December 18, 2016, 08:25:06 AM
if you crack sea water you get oxygen, hydrogen and salt. We all need oxygen constantly and salt occasionally! Win win. ;D
Tom
O2 & H1 & Cl
chlorine chemical symbol is CL
The human body is also a mystery chemistry machine!
Cracks beer into bad attitude and a high percentage of urine!
Both products are not much use for anything.
Unless used for fertilizer! :o ;D
Hydrogen on a molecular scale can not be stored in flexible bladders at low pressure?
Lack of storage still does not negate the power bonuses provided by hydrogen on diesel engines.
From my limited understanding the diesel oil burns better and you get more power.
Anode - cathode grids use a fair amount of power for the splitting and I imagine there is a need a for a larger alternator to
keep up the power supply. Then of course there is the fuel expended to drive the extra load of the alternator under a greater load.
high percentage of urine was used in the early days (BC) to make leather / hide white , Now its called DEF ;)
Since Russ you have a 59 engine , Have you seen the 2016 T5 four ??
VT
No, I will bite! Show me! (Is it the petrol model?) I have a passion for diesels! ;)
The english were but law compelled to collect their urine and pour it on the same piece of ground every day!
At certain times employees of the crown dug up that ground and it was taken for refining to make a component of black powder!
Errr, I think I would got with the brain tanned hide instead of the urine cured one that still comes out of India! :o ;D
For Russ , a few U-tubes of the 2016 4 cyls & the 2017 & E-drive 3 cyl.
The other links are the Volcano systems .
All I can post on a open pubic forum .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqi5yO41I0g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsB1shDOD7c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9CJLaX3RDI
https://www.mentor.com/products/vnd/in-vehicle_software/volcano_target_package/
https://www.mentor.com/products/vnd/
VT
Edit add , I forgot the T-5 450 BHP unit :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt3MZ2hw8d0
Fascinating stuff Nigel. Will the vehicles be priced for the middle classes to afford? Speaking of af ford, the first video had a Ford advertisement tacked on the front :o
Ralph
I run ad-blockers on my systems ,so I don't see those .
Ford International bought Volvo car division in 1998 for the information of advanced tech , GM bought Scandi-Saab car division .
Saab is now dead from Government motors handling ,Volvo was sold to Geely of China in 2010 .
Volvos are not made in China , but some parts are.
Ford once had Volvo, Jag,mazda & there line. in 2002-5 one part i remember fit all those makes on a certain platform .
Price for the part was Ford, Mazda ,Volvo & Jaguar was the highest 140-600..
At that time I had a Jag with the Fo-Mo-Co engine , now back to a real 100% volvo from Sweden .
The wife's xc90 diesel is one of the last swedish built cars (suv) and it is a 2008 model.
New retail on it was $86,000 plus the extras!
I picked it up from a german tourist leaving australia for $18,000 and it only had 118,000kms on the clock!
It is a sweet ride and is one of the best handling vehicles I have ever driven through corners etc!
Man it is like it is on rails.
The auto is bit doughy as I am used to the modified high performance auto boxes a mate built for me in the 80's - 90's.
But I have remember it is a family wagon and not a boy racer special!
I will have a look at those youtube links.
Off topic as well, but I have the hots for a methane digestor for our gas stove to further reduce commercial reliance!
That looks like the one. Very quiet and economical to run considering the size and weight of the vehicle.
I have to find somewhere local to get the timing belt done or get a workshop manual and do it myself.
They do not run so well with a broken timing belt.
Downloaded all those thank you!
Definately have all of that downloaded thanks! :o ;)