Anyone had any experience with these batteries at all?
http://www.emersonnetworkpower.com/en-ASIA/Products/DCPower/ensys_BatteriesAndAccessories/Documents/T%20Series%20VRLA%20Battery.pdf
No-one uses these? >:(
Russ, did you locate the rating table for them? I am assuming that rating may be an 8 hr rate... but mine have from < 1 hr to 24 hr ratings... that 1000 model weighs a bit less than mine per 2V cell
I have a friend with HUP ONE battery bank, 2V 1055aah cells
http://www.hupsolar.com/buy-HUP-batteries-prices-pricing
I have not westbranch. Offgridqld (aka Kurt) located these cells at a standalone installation tech's business.
He is getting them load tested and checked at the moment. They are supposed to be 3 years old with less than 10 cycles as they are from a phone backup system for telstra here.
Looking at them for my sons place.
Asking price is $1,000 per 1000amp bank at 24 volts.
Two banks available.
Have not heard back from Kurt in regard to the exact specs.
Mike how old are the cells your mate has and have there been any issues with the batteries?
Russ, mine were at yr 5 of 7 (warranty) when I got them and no issues other than those I caused myself... duh!..Now year 9+
What amount of daily load are you designing for? Array size to feed those cells?
Hi russ ...
I have no experience with the Emerson batteries.
The Link that you posted, notes that the 'T' series batteries are VRLA, designed for Float service. Does not mention the charging parameters, of directly weather they are AGM or Gel.
All of the HUPs that I have seen/know of are Flooded batteries, so probably not that similar.
In general, as you probably know, batteries that are designed for Float service are not so good for off-grid, daily cycling. But, some folks can get a few years out of them ...
FWIW, Vic
So Vic if we put them (gel cells) into service and start cycling them you feel that they will not last?
Westbranch the array that will be charging them is 2250 watts @ 24volt (58 volts on the midnite reg).
This will be used for one small fridge and a freezer plus some smaller loads.
There will be a 24 volt 50 amp wind turbine as well as the house site is very well ventilated! (untested as yet)
There is a secondary array of 1600 watts that can be used to add extra charge or if all goes well there will be a second
1000 amp plus battery bank to run the inverter A/C (500 watts once running) for a few hours a day in summer.
I have more panels on hand and will swap and change to get the best charge for the batteries.
I have a similar array size and brand here and even at 6am the panels are putting in 8amps @ 24 volts. We are no where near the peak of summer day length yet. Input drops off in the arvo and 4.30pm pv output is down to around 10 amps again.
What were the issues you caused?
Come on fess up! :o ;D
Quote from: russ_drinkwater on October 25, 2016, 04:41:57 PM
So Vic if we put them (gel cells) into service and start cycling them you feel that they will not last?
Westbranch the array that will be charging them is 2250 watts @ 24volt (58 volts on the midnite reg).
This will be used for one small fridge and a freezer plus some smaller loads.
There will be a 24 volt 50 amp wind turbine as well as the house site is very well ventilated! (untested as yet)
There is a secondary array of 1600 watts that can be used to add extra charge or if all goes well there will be a second
1000 amp plus battery bank to run the inverter A/C (500 watts once running) for a few hours a day in summer.
I have more panels on hand and will swap and change to get the best charge for the batteries.
I have a similar array size and brand here and even at 6am the panels are putting in 8amps @ 24 volts. We are no where near the peak of summer day length yet. Input drops off in the arvo and 4.30pm pv output is down to around 10 amps again.
What were the issues you caused?
Come on fess up! :o ;D
Russ,
There are certain battery design approaches that vary, depending on just how the battery is intended to be used -- some are primarily Starting batteries, some for Golf Carts and Floor Scrubbers, some for daily deep cycling, and so on ... as you know.
A battery IS still a battery, but the battery performance may be compromised if used in an application that it was really not designed for.
The Gel batteries that are in general use, Stateside, often have specific charge current limits of about 5% of 20-hour Capacity. This Limit can cause issues with batteries that are charged from PVs, and perhaps wind, as there are only so many hours in the day to do the charging (especially with PVs), and 5% is a relatively low charge rate.
High charge rates (current) can cause gas bubbles to form in the electrolyte Gel, often resulting in permanent loss of Capacity, as I read it.
Hope that you can find data on charge parameters, including any limitation on maximum charge rate. Gel batteries are sensitive to proper temperature-compensated charge voltage, as causing them to gas is not good for them.
I am no expert on Gel batteries, but some say that Gels are the least attractive battery type for Renewable Energy-charged systems.
However, if you already own them, or they are inexpensive enough, why not give them a try.
FWIW, just opinions. Good Luck, Vic
Russ, we were doing the cement board siding and the temp arrays for the 2 -24 V batteries had to be disconnected... Weather kept us from finishing the siding up under the front overhang , see avatar,.. so we left the scaffolding up.. I had disconnected the wiring to the CC's and turned off the back-lighting for the MNGP... figuring that we would be back in a couple of weeks, well that turned into a couple of months :o due to 6 feet of snow.....
so when I returned one bank was reading 8 volts and the other 10v.... sort of like an excess test discharge ???
You can see the next temp. sets of PV at the bottom of the avatar
Turned on the gen and plugged in the standalone charger for the next couple of visits and surprisingly :D they came back to almost normal... the main bank charges up to and holds at 25.2 under load (18 CuFt fridge and internet) we burn off about 10% in a night.
Another strange thing happened , one of the Classics somehow thought it was connected to a 12 V battery and had a heck of a time figuring out how to reset it.... ended up upgrading and hard booting etc... this was on the 8V battery...
Last visit we arrived in brilliant sun, then had 3 dismal overcast days and got the bank down to 75% SoC so I gave it a boost charge while running the gen and cutoff saw, the 5 day forecast was for more of the same. Shut the inverter off, first time since March :)
Quote from: russ_drinkwater on October 24, 2016, 03:49:09 PM
Mike how old are the cells your mate has and have there been any issues with the batteries?
He's had them about 8 years and is noticing some loss of capacity. Quite well made beasts, each cell is in it's own case, inside the master housing. Individual cell replacement is possible
Sigh, ok now I have the wind up a bit!
As these cells came form a float backup system for a phone company.
So I would say it is fair to say that their design is not for them to cycle and to just be on float continously! :o :(
Have not heard back from Kurt yet as he was going to do some digging in regard to the cells.
Have not parted with any cash.
I may have to just give my son half of the surrettes I have reserected!
That will tide them over, but the weight (300 lbs) of those batteries is a back breaker ::) :o ;D
Son carries on everytime I suggest it, lol!
what are the price comparisons for those Telcom cells vs the others?
Even if they are shorter lived they may work well for you $$ / Wh
$1,000 per 24 volt 1000amp packs West!
Two packs available, so would cost $2,000 for 2000amps @ 24 volts!
Tech told Kurt they have only had 6 cycles to his knowledge, unsure how this is calculated?
Sounds like a 6 month test cycle, ..... or maybe 4 month?
The manuals for mine were a yearly 'hard depletion' test down to 10V.
I will ring Kurt today Westbranch and see if he has come up with any hard facts.
Add to post #10
we just arrived at the cabin, Wife pleased that her sweet pea plant and Basil are still alive inside in a sunny spot... ;)
Rule1, ;; keep the cook happy.'' ..... ;D
Then she hits me with ''how is my battery doing'' ....drum roll as Grahams Android app start,
"Are you on my favorite page?'' Yes dear ( reverently)
Rule 2 "Don't piss off the cook!!" ;)
Well we were at 27.0 V after the inverter kicked in and the wifi , bridge and Sat modem powered up, plus fridge kicking on (it's still running ) 2 1/2 hrs later and the battery is stable again at it's sweet spot of 25.0V :) ;)
Sooooooooooooo, West, the solar system is actually the wife's and not yours????????? :o ;D
Wellllll, if doing all the work and thinking about what might squeeze more power out of an undersized array till next year doesn't count I guess it is hers... however I started her training early.... she blew the only 60A fuse on the 600W 12V inverter in the old place >:( ???.... "Well it ran the fan so why not the Vacuumn? AND I'm NOT finished" :-\ :'(
Ha ha, my wife is trained up a bit now and switches standalone to grid when using chip fryer or the like.
But in all fairness if it is during the day the inverter and batteries/panels cope with ease.
Just a good habit to get into while it is possible.
Plus she checks the batteries % on the regs as well.
I am lucky she is not air-headed about the setup!
But loosing power regularly in summer makes "she who must be obeyed" aware of the safety/security the standalone
gives us.