Professional installers obligations?

[Free Energy Freak]

I was just reading a thread where an installer had questioned the feature of a controller, which apparently needed a new update on the firmware prior to functioning.

The reply came to late, and the installer was (apparently) too far to return to the client's home in order to update the firmware he had received in the thread. I don't know if this should be directed to installers, or to end users, actually. So, I guess it is open to anyone to answer. So, what say ye, as far as the obligation goes for the installer?

1. Do you think the installers should at least keep the email contact of clients, so they can email updated files and instruct the customers on how to update their controllers?

2. Do you think the installers should go to previous clients who have these controllers, in order to update them as part of their obligation from the original install?

3. Do you think the installers have no obligation to their clients, in either, after the sale?


Personally, I would feel an obligation to at least help them keep the units updated.

[vtmaps]

1. Do you think the installers should at least keep the email contact of clients, so they can email updated files and instruct the customers on how to update their controllers?

2. Do you think the installers should go to previous clients who have these controllers, in order to update them as part of their obligation from the original install?

3. Do you think the installers have no obligation to their clients, in either, after the sale?

Depends.  If the installer left a functioning system, and that's what the customer paid for, the installer is done.

Around here, some installers will do maintenance plans... anything from monthly battery checks to annual "tune-ups" (clean fan filters, re-torque connections, etc).  Some installers can monitor their installed systems via internet... if they see a problem, they can make a service call (and get paid for it).

As far as sending emails to customer offering firmware upgrades... that's probably good business sense and leads to referrals for more business, but I don't see it as an obligation.

--vtMaps

[TomW]

I tend to agree with vtmaps. Once the system is installed the installer is done unless a maintenance agreement is in place. An installer should also ensure that the system is fully up to date on firmware at the time of install, of course.

I also agree a smart company would put some effort into keeping customers aware of upgrades to firmware for their system.

These days "service after the sale" seems to have no meaning in many industries.

Just my opinions and you usually get what you pay for.

Tom

[Free Energy Freak]

An installer should also ensure that the system is fully up to date on firmware at the time of install, of course.

I agree. In this case, the installer - I can only assume, did not get a reply soon enough, to his request. Perhaps he should have contacted the company directly? I don't know.

Either way, I can see this as becoming more of a problem in the future, especially as more controllers are released on the market.

I suppose a monthly maintenance service fee, if the customer agreed, wouldn't be out of line. At least the ball would be in the customer's court, then.

[SolarMusher]

I was just reading a thread where an installer had questioned the feature of a controller, which apparently needed a new update on the firmware prior to functioning.

The reply came to late, and the installer was (apparently) too far to return to the client's home in order to update the firmware he had received in the thread. I don't know if this should be directed to installers, or to end users, actually. So, I guess it is open to anyone to answer. So, what say ye, as far as the obligation goes for the installer?

1. Do you think the installers should at least keep the email contact of clients, so they can email updated files and instruct the customers on how to update their controllers?

2. Do you think the installers should go to previous clients who have these controllers, in order to update them as part of their obligation from the original install?

3. Do you think the installers have no obligation to their clients, in either, after the sale?


Personally, I would feel an obligation to at least help them keep the units updated.

Even if this installation is done and closed, this update will be done at no charges, as soon as possible because to me this update is too important for an unattended system with AGM batteries.
But what about Midnite who didn't answer in a first thread and too lately in a second thread when this update was ready but not released without reason... In the same thought, one should wonder how a kid or another controller could be sold as a production unit without end amps which is a major function as described in the kid manual. End amps on shunt shouldn't be an update when it's already working on Classic with WBjr for monthes. I know its a new way of doing business but here we should wonder what are the limits. Sorry if this reply seems to be negative, I'm really a Midnite products fan.
Erik

Add content.
As you were talking about in your post, updates in the field are a real progress when compared to a never updated product but it can also be a pain for installers, a few monthes ago boB was working hard to make WBjr to work nicely on Classic and if I remember there was a new update (beta or production) every two days. At this time, I was working on a system and wanted to get it right, this system was up and running for monthes, it took me 5 or 6 more visits on site to finally get end amps to work nicely on shunt, at no charges of course. How could installers explain to their customers that the perfect controller they paid for does not really work as advertised and that they should pay for it to be updated and functionnal...?
I think that companies like Midnite and others have made internet stores their first choice to sell their products and that installers aren't part of their priorities, that's just my opinion.
Once again, don't get me wrong if I have the choice, that's Midnite.

[Free Energy Freak]

Even if this installation is done and closed, this update will be done at no charges, as soon as possible because to me this update is too important for an unattended system with AGM batteries.
But what about Midnite who didn't answer in a first thread and too lately in a second thread when this update was ready but not released without reason... In the same thought, one should wonder how a kid or another controller could be sold as a production unit without end amps which is a major function as described in the kid manual. End amps on shunt shouldn't be an update when it's already working on Classic with WBjr for monthes. I know its a new way of doing business but here we should wonder what are the limits. Sorry if this reply seems to be negative, I'm really a Midnite products fan.
Erik

Mate, this wasn't posted to give you grief or anything of the sort. Hence the reason I didn't mention anyone by name.

It just made me think about how things are changing in the Alternative Energy Industry, and how it will affect the installers and customers alike.

Personally, though, I would make it a point to contact the manufacturer direct, in the future. That is, rather than by posting on an online forum waiting for an answer - unless you know you have ample time. After all, you never know who will be online on any given day.

My apologies of you took it as though I were putting you in a barrel.

[SolarMusher]

Not a problem 
We're all trying to give our best.

[atop8918]

Can I just say Thank You gentlemen for being just that.
It is so nice to see civil discourse online once in a while.
More SolarMushers and FreeEnergyFreaks in the world please!

[Westbranch]

MN User:

I am a    VERY HAPPY CL 150 user despite several minor problems getting the FW to update and beating my head on the wall for ~ 1 month,  still not totally there but progress IS being made... and compounded by a one way 3 hr drive, not as much as Erik's but close...

MN Promoter:
I am (have) been persuading my cabin neighbour to get a Kid, he is ready but I keep stalling him as the Kid is still not ''Install and Forget"  as yet.  Luckily he is using my old venerable MX60 in lieu of a Kid.

Would I install a Classic or Kid as is?  Not until I had updated its FW to the current version.
If it was for someone else I would advise them that they need to watch the MN site, ~ monthly, and I would be happy to update it if in the local area.  Longer drive?  2 hour drive would be tops without some payment....

Offsite Update, using VPN or similar, upon their request if they are online, etc... if they did not want to do it themselves.

That installer was a bit unprepared in my view.

Re MN, it's HARD being on the Bleeding Edge of product development..  bin there, dun that...

[SolarMusher]

MN User:

I am a    VERY HAPPY CL 150 user despite several minor problems getting the FW to update and beating my head on the wall for ~ 1 month,  still not totally there but progress IS being made... and compounded by a one way 3 hr drive, not as much as Erik's but close...

MN Promoter:
I am (have) been persuading my cabin neighbour to get a Kid, he is ready but I keep stalling him as the Kid is still not ''Install and Forget"  as yet.  Luckily he is using my old venerable MX60 in lieu of a Kid.

Would I install a Classic or Kid as is?  Not until I had updated its FW to the current version.
If it was for someone else I would advise them that they need to watch the MN site, ~ monthly, and I would be happy to update it if in the local area.  Longer drive?  2 hour drive would be tops without some payment....

Offsite Update, using VPN or similar, upon their request if they are online, etc... if they did not want to do it themselves.

That installer was a bit unprepared in my view.

Re MN, it's HARD being on the Bleeding Edge of product development..  bin there, dun that...

Hi West,
I totaly agree with you.
"That installer was a bit unprepared in my view":  Yes, and you know what, I was this installer ! And this installer have another system including a kid to install soon (the first one was not enough, I'm really slow), this time I just hope that Mario made this FW: "install and forget" and not "install and come back".
I only disagree with you on Classic/WBjr which is to me now, really stable.
Erik

[Free Energy Freak]

Can I just say Thank You gentlemen for being just that.
It is so nice to see civil discourse online once in a while.
More SolarMushers and FreeEnergyFreaks in the world please!

Don't make me blush, please.