First time DIY solar project

[fl4848]

Hello,

I am working on my first DIY solar project. I have been on the survival monkey forum getting advice for the equipment that I need. I have purchased the following:

Schneider Electric Conext MPPT 60 PV Solar Charge Controller
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004HCHDZW

https://backwoodssolar.com/product/schneider-xw-plus-system-control-panel/

Schneider Conext SW 4kW 120/240VAC 24VDC Inverter/Charger RNW8654024
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MV423ZE

8 of these Harbor Freight solar panels:
https://www.harborfreight.com/100-watt-monocrystalline-solar-panel-57325.html

2 of these Harbor Freight batteries:
https://www.harborfreight.com/12v-35-amp-hour-sealed-lead-acid-battery-64102.html

2 of these Solar Power Connection Cable Kit:
https://www.harborfreight.com/solar-power-connection-cable-kit-63981.html

2 of these 400 Watt Universal Solar Connector:
https://www.harborfreight.com/400-watt-universal-solar-connector-68689.html

6 of these Trojan T-125 6V 240Ah Flooded Lead Acid GC2 Deep Cycle Battery
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082QWKV1G


I think I still need to get about 50 to 100 feet of heavy duty wire. Although I'm not sure how thick it should be. I was looking to get it from this website:
https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/welding-cable

I was wondering if someone on this forum might be able to give some advice about (1) whether I've bought the right stuff, (2) what else I need to get, (3) what I should consider in order to set it all up.

Is there a step-by-step guide somewhere to set up this equipment?

Thanks for your help!!!! 

[Vic]

Hi fl4848, Welcome to the Forum,

Just a couple of things;

You have ordered six GC batteries, each one of them is a 6 volt battery.  For a 24 V system, you are either short two, for two parallel strings, or long two, unless the quantity is a typo.  Also, customarily, GC batteries have been running in the $250 ea range, although, Inflation might have driven up the prices for any/all of them ...

Could not find any detailed specs on the PVs that you linked, and the customary Specification sticker, that is 'always' on the back of PVs, seems to be missing on the PV in the pic on the HF site.

Looks like you are trying to put together a good system.

The Conext inverter, may require a control panel (like an "SCP", or similar, in order to be able to change ANY of the default settings,  IIRC.

What purpose will this system serve, off grid? Grid backup ?  etc.

Good that you are asking questions,    ...   but    Good Luck, Vic

[ClassicCrazy]

You probably want to look up Alt E  youtube page and watch the video series that Amy used to make because she had some good beginner info on solar setups.
Many of the things you got would not have been what I would have recommended.
As Vic says it really depends on what you want to accomplish and power.
First you usually figure out your loads, and then size your system according to your budget.
It is also dependent also on your location and access to sun and so many other considerations.
There are a lot of basic things you need to design for , like voltage drop on wiring, ability to expand system , etc.
Curious how you found Midnite Solar forums since you don't have any Midnite products ?
You may want to check out this forum https://diysolarforum.com/ for lots of info and knowledge on getting things set up as well as design help. 
Larry

[mike90045]

With Harbor Freight, the cardboard box is often the best part of the product.

[fl4848]

Thank you all SO MUCH for providing feedback on my initial post. This is very helpful. Sorry for my late reply. I have been super busy at work.

I just purchased 4 Deep Cycle trojans and I have 4 Harbor freight 12v batteries. My thinking is that if I have more batteries than I need, then that will put me in a good situation. I was thinking of it kind of like a reservoir. On the days that it rains, the reservoir can be replenished with water. On the days that it doesn't rain, you have backup stored from the days it did rain. Same analogy with sunshine, I suppose. I'm not sure if it actually works like that with a battery bank. Not sure.

So I have all this equipment. I think the only thing I need to acquire still is a really thick cable to transport electriciy from the solar panels to the battery bank. I know there are different types and sizes. Not sure if anyone would have a recommendation.

Also, I spoke to the folks at Trojan and they said that I needed to calculate amp hours based on appliances. I did that and came up with 250 amp hours.

Thanks again for all your help.

[fl4848]

Hi fl4848, Welcome to the Forum,

Just a couple of things;

You have ordered six GC batteries, each one of them is a 6 volt battery.  For a 24 V system, you are either short two, for two parallel strings, or long two, unless the quantity is a typo.  Also, customarily, GC batteries have been running in the $250 ea range, although, Inflation might have driven up the prices for any/all of them ...

Could not find any detailed specs on the PVs that you linked, and the customary Specification sticker, that is 'always' on the back of PVs, seems to be missing on the PV in the pic on the HF site.

Looks like you are trying to put together a good system.

The Conext inverter, may require a control panel (like an "SCP", or similar, in order to be able to change ANY of the default settings,  IIRC.

What purpose will this system serve, off grid? Grid backup ?  etc.

Good that you are asking questions,    ...   but    Good Luck, Vic

Thanks Vic!

I spoke to the folks at Trojan and they said that I should change the order of batteries from 6v to 12v which I have done. They said with this 12v setup I can run "parallel" from neg to neg and pos to pos. I need to abide by the KISS principle as much as possible as I'm already in over my head. :-)

The Panels are 12vs and so are the batteries, so I think this should work alright.

I'm hoping to get a chance to take pics of all the equipment that I've cobbled together and post it here. Just very busy with work right now. Please forgive lapse in response, as I'm juggling many of life's balls in one hand while trying to tie shoelaces with the other.

This will be an off grid system. I am concerned about explosions. I've heard that can happen.... and it can be ugly. I'm hoping with the Schneider equipment, this will be prevented. (fingers crossed). However, the Trojan guys did say that the batteries need to be "watered" every month. Not sure what happens if I forget to "water" them. Not sure if they become dangerous.

I'm also wondering if I should install and on/off switch to stop electricity from panels overloading the batteries. Not sure if the Schneider equipment handles that.

I am totally green to all of this. It's all Greek to me. Learning as I go. I apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge around this stuff. I was an English major! 

[ClassicCrazy]

You really should do some studying - there are plenty of tutorials on beginners solar on youtube .
You have your solar panels - you wire them to a solar controller. The solar controller keeps the batteries from over charging ( if you set the charge settings correctly).
Flooded lead acid batteries will bubble when they are charging so that is why you need to check the water levels. How much water they use really depends on how your are using your system.
What you say doesn't make sense in some ways. If you have 24v inverter you need to have your batteries wired to be 24 volts.
I am not trying to be rude but since you have equipment that is not Midnite , and this is a Midnite Solar help forum - I don't think this is the best place to get advice on how to use and set up other band products.  Again I don't want to be rude but I don't want to spend a lot of time writing about the very basics of solar since so many other people have produced really good instructive detailed videos about how solar systems work and how to wire them, etc.
Your questions about what wire to use is something that is really dependent on how you wire your solar panels to the controller.
If you don't want to blow up batteries or burn down your house , then it is important to understand the basics or you should hire an installer to do it for you.
Take care and do some homework on these things !
Larry

[ClassicCrazy]

Also it really isn't a good thing to mix your 12v Harbor Freight batteries with your Trojan batteries. The Harbor Freight are probably sealed AGM batteries.  They are different and need different charging settings .
There are so many things to consider - really I don't want to start to get into all the things you have said that are not good solar system planning and design .
Basically you are almost asking someone to take the hodge podge of things you already have , and tell you how to put it all together in a decent and safe way.
That is not something I would want to take on. Your setup is basically a lesson in mistakes no one should make when designing and purchasing a solar system.  I hope you understand that I think my critique is in  your best interest for being safe.
Larry

[boB]

Yes, you will definitely want to be careful of mixing battery types, especially different lead acid kinds like, flooded and sealed AGM's or Gel.

Buying an inexpensive volt meter would also be handy.  The ones from Harbor Freight are usually OK.

Check to make sure each battery is not too different in voltage form the other batteries, especially while charging.

And don't forget to get distilled water for refilling.  I have had a bit of trouble finding distilled water some times, lately.

boB

[Vic]

Hi fl4848, Welcome to the Forum,

Just a couple of things;

You have ordered six GC batteries, each one of them is a 6 volt battery.  For a 24 V system, you are either short two, for two parallel strings, or long two, unless the quantity is a typo.  Also, customarily, GC batteries have been running in the $250 ea range, although, Inflation might have driven up the prices for any/all of them ...

Could not find any detailed specs on the PVs that you linked, and the customary Specification sticker, that is 'always' on the back of PVs, seems to be missing on the PV in the pic on the HF site.

Looks like you are trying to put together a good system.

The Conext inverter, may require a control panel (like an "SCP", or similar, in order to be able to change ANY of the default settings,  IIRC.

What purpose will this system serve, off grid? Grid backup ?  etc.

Good that you are asking questions,    ...   but    Good Luck, Vic

Thanks Vic!

I spoke to the folks at Trojan and they said that I should change the order of batteries from 6v to 12v which I have done. They said with this 12v setup I can run "parallel" from neg to neg and pos to pos. I need to abide by the KISS principle as much as possible as I'm already in over my head. :-)

The Panels are 12vs and so are the batteries, so I think this should work alright.

I'm hoping to get a chance to take pics of all the equipment that I've cobbled together and post it here. Just very busy with work right now. Please forgive lapse in response, as I'm juggling many of life's balls in one hand while trying to tie shoelaces with the other.

This will be an off grid system. I am concerned about explosions. I've heard that can happen.... and it can be ugly. I'm hoping with the Schneider equipment, this will be prevented. (fingers crossed). However, the Trojan guys did say that the batteries need to be "watered" every month. Not sure what happens if I forget to "water" them. Not sure if they become dangerous.

I'm also wondering if I should install and on/off switch to stop electricity from panels overloading the batteries. Not sure if the Schneider equipment handles that.

I am totally green to all of this. It's all Greek to me. Learning as I go. I apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge around this stuff. I was an English major! 

Hi fl4848, thank you for the added info.

OK, on the batteries, but, how many parallel strings of batteries are you planning on?  More than about two strings, can cause constant issues with imbalanced charge and discharge.

The main concern with the HF 100W solar panels (PVs), is that there are no real specifications on them.  They might be OK, but without specs, it can make troubleshooting a bit difficult, and also that they use those "SAE" connectors, but you are buying the accessory cables to match.

One other question,  is,  how do you plan to use the power from the batteries?  Many folks with backup power systems, find some source of 120 V AC power, useful.  Is this system, an extension of an RV, or similar?  Also, if you feel that you would need an inverter,  please choose, very, very carefully.  There are many considerations, and please avoid buying an inverter with more than about 2000 watts. (absolute max) for a 12 V system.  Smaller is often better,  or perhaps going to a 24V system   ...

And so on,  many details needed to consider when designing,  and buying equipment for battery-based power systems.  Often, buying gear, before one has defined what exact needs the system should supply, and  a power budget, done, as a result of the defined loads, can waste some time, and sometimes, some cash.

IMO,  Good Luck,   Vic

[ClassicCrazy]

Vic
I thought on the first post fl4848 said he already purchased a 24v 4000 watt inverter and a 60 amp mppt controller.
That is why it is so hard for me to understand why he said he is going to wire batteries for 12v .
To Bob's point about the digital multimeters.
I recommend Kaiweets - they have very good reviews by respected reviewers and are priced reasonably on Amazon .
I bought one of the new fancy color screen "smart" ones that you can just move the leads from ohms to DC v to AC v and it will switch automatically without destroying the meter or blowing a fuse.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=kaiweets+digital+multimeter&crid=2IYTZA9ZXQFMB&sprefix=kaiwee%2Caps%2C754&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_6

Larry

[Vic]

Vic
I thought on the first post fl4848 said he already purchased a 24v 4000 watt inverter and a 60 amp mppt controller.
That is why it is so hard for me to understand why he said he is going to wire batteries for 12v .
To Bob's point about the digital multimeters.
I recommend Kaiweets - they have very good reviews by respected reviewers and are priced reasonably on Amazon .
I bought one of the new fancy color screen "smart" ones that you can just move the leads from ohms to DC v to AC v and it will switch automatically without destroying the meter or blowing a fuse.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=kaiweets+digital+multimeter&crid=2IYTZA9ZXQFMB&sprefix=kaiwee%2Caps%2C754&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_6

Larry

Ya,  ya  ...   ya,   Thanks,  my bad,  tried to save a bit of time by not reviewing the first post.

The SW Scneider is a fairly good inverter,   AND,  it is 24 V !!

Thanks again, Larry, not good to try to rely on memory, when one tramps around on a few forums.

73  Happy Fourth, Thanks again, Vic

[ClassicCrazy]

I hope I wasn't too hard on fl4848 - don't want them to give up on solar.
It is just that out here where I live someone did something similar getting a whole bunch of stuff from different sources and then I got recommended to help them.
It was just too frustrating even looking at it because everyone has a particular way they are used to designing and putting something together.
And I was the third or fourth person that had been contacted by them about that system.
It was so hard to explain everything that was not cohesive with their system and I had to tell them I couldn't do anything to help them since I would have to start over from the beginning and build a system the way I had experience with.
I think the best thing for a new novice is to start really small and simple and get the hands on  and how to use a digital multimeter and how to figure out wiring losses , etc.
Although these days there is now the new approach - get one the Midnite DIY  combination systems , connect it to a server rack lithium battery and PV, figure out the basic wiring and  basic settings, and then you are good to go.   

Larry

[fl4848]

Hi All,

Sorry, on top of dealing with my job, I got hit with a strong bout of COVID, so that really threw me for a loop. Just getting back into the swing of things now!

Hi Larry - I wanted to mention that I did buy a product for Midnite solar. I believe it was a Schneider product. That's how I found out about Midnite. I apologize as I'm flying by the seat of my pants with all this, and I don't know how things are generally done in this sphere. When I purchased the solar panel product from Midnite, they said I'm lucky because this is the last one that works without a cell phone, which I prefer. I would have purchased all of my products from Midnite, but I didn't realize at the time that this is the go-to forum for solar panel equipment.

Hi Vic - Sorry, could you clarify what PV stands for? My apologies.


Mike - sorry to hear that Harbor Freight does not have good products. Especially because I purchased quite a few from them. :-(   I had watched a youtube video of this guy comparing solar panels, and he said that the Harbor Freight product came out on top in his comparison. For a guy like me who knows nothing about any of this stuff, it seemed like the way to go at the time. I wasn't privy to the Midnite forum at the time.

....

I ended up receiving 4 12-volt Trojan batteries.

....

Classic Crazy - "What you say doesn't make sense in some ways. If you have 24v inverter you need to have your batteries wired to be 24 volts. "

*That's not good. I hope I didn't buy the wrong Schneider equipment. That would be really bad. I imagine it would be difficult to return.

"I am not trying to be rude but since you have equipment that is not Midnite , and this is a Midnite Solar help forum - I don't think this is the best place to get advice on how to use and set up other band products. "

*I did purchase an expensive piece of equipment from Midnite. It was Schneider branded. I'm confused why people are saying I didn't purchase equipment from Midnite, because Midnite sells Schneider branded equipment.

....

Larry - I understand your critique. TRUST ME. If someone had given me a laundry list of everything I needed when I started this project I would have been bouncing off the rafters. I was on a forum for several months trying to figure out what I needed for this project. Everyone gave me different advice so I took the advice that seemed to be the best and went with that. I have not found a really good place on the internet that gives a novice like me a step-by-step guide on how to do this. You have to understand that there are people out there who want to set up a solar panel system, but do not have the capacity to become expert electricians. I have a full time job, and don't have a lot of free time. My background is not in electricity, so I'm doing my best here.

*Is there a place that provides a step-by-step guide on how to set up a solar system? Is there a place that provides you a laundry list of equipment that you need?

Maybe I should try to return the stuff that I've bought (not sure if I can) and re-purchase different equipment. It's all still new and in the box.

.....


VIC - "OK, on the batteries, but, how many parallel strings of batteries are you planning on?  More than about two strings, can cause constant issues with imbalanced charge and discharge."

*I purchased 4 Trojan batteries. Not sure about parallel strings. I thought I would just wire all 4 batteries together. Is that not a good way to proceed?

.............
.............


I appreciate all the help from everyone on the forum! Larry, I understand your last comment, and I am probably your typical annoying customer who has purchased a hodgepodge of equipment that won't work together.

So, perhaps I need to start from the beginning.

I guess my BIGGEST question is.... Is there a comprehensive guide for a beginner that provides step-by-step instructions concerning how to put together a system and also provides a laundry list of equipment that I need to purchase?


If I can achieve the step above of finding step-by-step instructions and also a laundry list of compatible equipment, then I can move onto step 2 which is trying to return all of the expensive equipment that I've already purchased.

Then I'll move onto step 3 which is purchasing the laundry list of compatible equipment. I will make sure this time that I purchase the equipment from Midnite, if possible.

Then I'll move on to step 4 which is assembling the equipment that I've purchased.


Step 2 - returning the equipment is going to be a PITA because I have a living room full of stuff. Solar panels and batteries all were purchased at Harbor Freight, so that might be an easy return. However the Schneider equipment is a different story. Not sure how I would return that stuff. It's big, heavy and expensive and it came from various sources due to the availability of different vendors. Some of it was purchased from Midnite. Some of it was purchased from Amazon. I purchased this stuff before I knew there was a Midnite forum. I was on a different forum and had a bunch of different people giving me different advice.

I'm hoping that the step-by-step guide might use the Schneider equipment set up. That way I won't need to return the Schneider equipment. However, I think we were questioning some of the equipment that is 24 volt instead of 12 volt. If that's not correct, I might need to try to return that stuff. I don't know how I would return it because these things are HEAVY. Maybe I just re-purchase what I need once I get a comprehensive list, and use the other equipment as a paper weight.


Sorry, I realize this is a headache for people to try to assist with. My apologies in advance. I'm doing my best!

[fl4848]

To summarize the above post, I think what I need is a comprehensive, easy-to-understand, step-by-step guide that explains how to put together a solar system that works. I also need a laundry list of equipment that coincides with the step-by-step guide.

This can take the form of a manual, a video, or both.

All of the watts and voltage talk is above my head. I just need something that says buy this, this and this. Plug in this wire to this plug. Attach batteries with x,y,z, ect.

Need a "for dummies" version of how to set up a solar system. Easy to understand for the common, every day Joe.