New configuration for 24v setup

[Simonbr]

Hi Simon, thanks for all the additional info.

Little time, right now, but:
'
If you can get the Classic on My Midnite, the MN web site, that allows the Classic to report-in about every five minutes,  you can see when the Classic beging Absorb, and when it ends,  AND you can also see the Wb current, from each report during Absorb (as well as all other times).  The time resolution, is usually better than +/- ten minutes.

You can also get the amount of time that the CC has been in Float, in the Charge>Time>More page on the MNGP,  for the total Absorb time,  BUT, you need to know what time the CC went to Absorb  ...

More Later,  Vic

Thank you for this I will configure the networking to log. What do you think about the other info on voltages and EA?

Hi Simon.  Regarding EA:

"The FLA batts here need an EA of about 1.3% of 20 hour Capacity.  One way to tell a good starting place for EA, is, to set a long Absorb time, like about 6 hours, and watch the Wb Amps into the battery (on the MNGP, or Local App).  When the Wb amps stop diminishing,  this about the right setting for EA.  However, if you have fairly large loads, that are cycling on/off ( line an A/C), this will change the Wb amps, somewhat  --  this is caused by the change in the voltage drop in the cable, and circuit breaker between the Classic and the battery".

IMO, 29,8 Veq,  is FAR too low, it the battery bank really needs an EQ.  I would say 30.5 minimum.  But, a good way to determine Veq, is to take SG readings on a couple of your Pilot Cells (usually chosen from the cells that customarily have a bit lower SG readings than the rest.  Check 1-2 of them every 30-ish minutes, to see if their SGs are still rising.  If they are not, then this usually means that further EQ (at that Veq) will yield no improvement in SGs.  If you still see more variation in SGs, when each cell is measured,  then, IMO, raise the Veq 1/2 V, or so, depending on the amount of the variation in SGs.

My favorite FLA maunfacturer  --  Surrette  --  recommends a minimum Veq, for 24 V FLAs, of 31 V, the last time I checked. (although, they recommend a Vabs of 30 V).  These high numbers, are probably due the finding that many FLA users, kill their batts, from chronic under-charging   ...

Five hours of Absorb, is a long time.  If your batts really need this much Absorb time, then perhaps do not raise the Vabs, too much from where you are.  But, just watch the Wb amps into the battery, and when it no longer diminishes for 10 - 20 minutes, then you should be done, at least for that day.  That intermittent load on the system, might cause the Wb current to vary a bit on its own.

Back to work, here.  There is an Android Phone App, on this site, written by a chap named, Graham,  that could be very useful for you to use to watch your Classic charge the batts.  Will look for that link, Vic

Ok I signed up and registered my classic in my classic site. I only have an iPhone so the android app won’t work.

I verified my SG today while in float and they are at about 1.20 and 1.22 which seems lower then yesterday. I’m at a lost and think I’m changing too much. What do you think I should do first? I changed my abs time to 6 hours and EA to 5.4a. I can wait until tomorrow to see how long I’m in abs for and where the amps finish.

The only big load is my dc fridge taking about 6a and inverter is constantly at about 2a to 4a

[Vic]

Simon,

How much Distilled Water do your batteries consume, and how often?

Your Abosrb time seems quite long, at five hours,  to me.

Yes, check EA, tomorrow.

In the morning, before much charging has occurred,  what is the Net Ah value?

I would suggest that you increase the Absorb voltage, considerably.

How much faith do you have in your Refractometer?   You could try the Hydrometer,  as a comparison, if you believe it to be accurate.

Thanks,  Vic

[boB]

I think that you can still get Adobe AIR for the iPhone ?   

If so then you can also try My MidNite for monitoring the Classic.

boB

[ClassicCrazy]

Ok I signed up and registered my classic in my classic site. I only have an iPhone so the android app won’t work.

Check that Classic DIY github page - someone was working on an iphone app but not sure of the status of it.
Larry

[Simonbr]

Simon,

How much Distilled Water do your batteries consume, and how often?

Your Abosrb time seems quite long, at five hours,  to me.

Yes, check EA, tomorrow.

In the morning, before much charging has occurred,  what is the Net Ah value?

I would suggest that you increase the Absorb voltage, considerably.

How much faith do you have in your Refractometer?   You could try the Hydrometer,  as a comparison, if you believe it to be accurate.

Thanks,  Vic

I have not added distilled water to the old or the new batteries at all, they still have good levels.

I thought you had said to increase the absorption time and set the EA to 1.3% of the 420aH of the battery to find out the limits.  Doesn't the CC stop at the EA or the abs time, whichever comes first? I figured if I set it to 6 hours and the EA to 5.4a I could monitor tomorrow to see which ends absorption first. Isn't this how it works?

Tonight the SOC was showing 100% but the SG was telling me something else. Usually in the AM I'm still in the 88% area. I will keep track of this tomorrow, and the MyMidnite will now help me with that too.

I do have allot of faith in it, I will try to calibrate it once I get distilled water, but before we came out at camp May 15 this year, I charged all 4 batteries and the SG was all 1.27 to 1.28

currently my settings are
EQ 29.9v
ABS 29.2v
Float 27v

[Simonbr]

I think that you can still get Adobe AIR for the iPhone ?   

If so then you can also try My MidNite for monitoring the Classic.

boB

I am willing to try anything, checked to see for Air and i think its already part of Apple products. Can you link your app?

[Vic]

Simon,

How much Distilled Water do your batteries consume, and how often?

Your Abosrb time seems quite long, at five hours,  to me.

Yes, check EA, tomorrow.

In the morning, before much charging has occurred,  what is the Net Ah value?

I would suggest that you increase the Absorb voltage, considerably.

How much faith do you have in your Refractometer?   You could try the Hydrometer,  as a comparison, if you believe it to be accurate.

Thanks,  Vic

I have not added distilled water to the old or the new batteries at all, they still have good levels.

I thought you had said to increase the absorption time and set the EA to 1.3% of the 420aH of the battery to find out the limits.  Doesn't the CC stop at the EA or the abs time, whichever comes first? I figured if I set it to 6 hours and the EA to 5.4a I could monitor tomorrow to see which ends absorption first. Isn't this how it works?

Tonight the SOC was showing 100% but the SG was telling me something else. Usually in the AM I'm still in the 88% area. I will keep track of this tomorrow, and the MyMidnite will now help me with that too.

I do have allot of faith in it, I will try to calibrate it once I get distilled water, but before we came out at camp May 15 this year, I charged all 4 batteries and the SG was all 1.27 to 1.28

currently my settings are
EQ 29.9v
ABS 29.2v
Float 27v

Hi Simon,

Flooded LA batts, that are being charged properly,  MUST need make-up distilled water,  else, they are being undercharged, period.

I did say to increase the Absorb time, such that you could have enough time to be able to see the EA point, where is ceases diminishing.  An absorb of five hours, at 29.2 V,  appears to not fully-charging your batts.

I would set Vabs to about 30 V in the AM, tomorrow.  AND would generally EQ, at 31 V (t comped) MINIMUM, for now  .. perhaps higher  ...

Be certain that you are using the Battery Temp Sensor (BTS), on the Classic.  You probably could use a good EQ, after a fairly full charge.  IMO, EQs should be temp comped  --  this is a menu item.

SOC readings, really mean little.  SOC is set to 100%, when the Classic goes to Float (on its own, NOT if you force it in the Tweaks menu).
It is the Net Ah, early in the AM, that tells you the amount of Ah removed from the battery.  But, if the battery is never getting fully recharged, this number is not so valuable.

Yes, do set Absorb time to six hours, and EA to about 5.4-ish Amps, and observe.
AND, after tomorrow's charge, please take and record SG of all cells.

Your battery bank really needs to get as fully-charged as is possible,  and probably hours of EQ.

Thanks for the info,  Good Luck, Vic

[boB]

I think that you can still get Adobe AIR for the iPhone ?   

If so then you can also try My MidNite for monitoring the Classic.

boB

I am willing to try anything, checked to see for Air and i think its already part of Apple products. Can you link your app?

I got mixed up on which was which.....

The "Local App" which runs on an Apple computer, here...

https://www.midnitesolar.com/firmware.php?firmwareProduct_ID=2

The "MY Midnite" doesn't need Adobe Air of course

https://mymidnite2.com/

[Simonbr]

Simon,

How much Distilled Water do your batteries consume, and how often?

Your Abosrb time seems quite long, at five hours,  to me.

Yes, check EA, tomorrow.

In the morning, before much charging has occurred,  what is the Net Ah value?

I would suggest that you increase the Absorb voltage, considerably.

How much faith do you have in your Refractometer?   You could try the Hydrometer,  as a comparison, if you believe it to be accurate.

Thanks,  Vic

I have not added distilled water to the old or the new batteries at all, they still have good levels.

I thought you had said to increase the absorption time and set the EA to 1.3% of the 420aH of the battery to find out the limits.  Doesn't the CC stop at the EA or the abs time, whichever comes first? I figured if I set it to 6 hours and the EA to 5.4a I could monitor tomorrow to see which ends absorption first. Isn't this how it works?

Tonight the SOC was showing 100% but the SG was telling me something else. Usually in the AM I'm still in the 88% area. I will keep track of this tomorrow, and the MyMidnite will now help me with that too.

I do have allot of faith in it, I will try to calibrate it once I get distilled water, but before we came out at camp May 15 this year, I charged all 4 batteries and the SG was all 1.27 to 1.28

currently my settings are
EQ 29.9v
ABS 29.2v
Float 27v

Hi Simon,

Flooded LA batts, that are being charged properly,  MUST need make-up distilled water,  else, they are being undercharged, period.

I did say to increase the Absorb time, such that you could have enough time to be able to see the EA point, where is ceases diminishing.  An absorb of five hours, at 29.2 V,  appears to not fully-charging your batts.

I would set Vabs to about 30 V in the AM, tomorrow.  AND would generally EQ, at 31 V (t comped) MINIMUM, for now  .. perhaps higher  ...

Be certain that you are using the Battery Temp Sensor (BTS), on the Classic.  You probably could use a good EQ, after a fairly full charge.  IMO, EQs should be temp comped  --  this is a menu item.

SOC readings, really mean little.  SOC is set to 100%, when the Classic goes to Float (on its own, NOT if you force it in the Tweaks menu).
It is the Net Ah, early in the AM, that tells you the amount of Ah removed from the battery.  But, if the battery is never getting fully recharged, this number is not so valuable.

Yes, do set Absorb time to six hours, and EA to about 5.4-ish Amps, and observe.
AND, after tomorrow's charge, please take and record SG of all cells.

Your battery bank really needs to get as fully-charged as is possible,  and probably hours of EQ.

Thanks for the info,  Good Luck, Vic

I do know that SOC and battery V is not very accurate way to measure as they fluctuate, I only use it as a quick dirty guide but they are pointless.

Abs of 30v scares me a little, I had not tested the abs 29.2v yet, I was still on 28.8v. I'm thinking maybe just sticking with he US Battery datasheet for a couple days to see if the SG goes up. abs 2.45v per cell (29.4v).

The 30.6v for EQ does scare me, can this damage my electronics connected to the battery?

I guess at the end of bulk charge, if I check the SG it should of brought it up somewhat, the abs just does the finishing top off?

[Vic]

Simon,

How much Distilled Water do your batteries consume, and how often?

Your Abosrb time seems quite long, at five hours,  to me.

Yes, check EA, tomorrow.

In the morning, before much charging has occurred,  what is the Net Ah value?

I would suggest that you increase the Absorb voltage, considerably.

How much faith do you have in your Refractometer?   You could try the Hydrometer,  as a comparison, if you believe it to be accurate.

Thanks,  Vic

I have not added distilled water to the old or the new batteries at all, they still have good levels.

I thought you had said to increase the absorption time and set the EA to 1.3% of the 420aH of the battery to find out the limits.  Doesn't the CC stop at the EA or the abs time, whichever comes first? I figured if I set it to 6 hours and the EA to 5.4a I could monitor tomorrow to see which ends absorption first. Isn't this how it works?

Tonight the SOC was showing 100% but the SG was telling me something else. Usually in the AM I'm still in the 88% area. I will keep track of this tomorrow, and the MyMidnite will now help me with that too.

I do have allot of faith in it, I will try to calibrate it once I get distilled water, but before we came out at camp May 15 this year, I charged all 4 batteries and the SG was all 1.27 to 1.28

currently my settings are
EQ 29.9v
ABS 29.2v
Float 27v

Hi Simon,

Flooded LA batts, that are being charged properly,  MUST need make-up distilled water,  else, they are being undercharged, period.

I did say to increase the Absorb time, such that you could have enough time to be able to see the EA point, where is ceases diminishing.  An absorb of five hours, at 29.2 V,  appears to not fully-charging your batts.

I would set Vabs to about 30 V in the AM, tomorrow.  AND would generally EQ, at 31 V (t comped) MINIMUM, for now  .. perhaps higher  ...

Be certain that you are using the Battery Temp Sensor (BTS), on the Classic.  You probably could use a good EQ, after a fairly full charge.  IMO, EQs should be temp comped  --  this is a menu item.

SOC readings, really mean little.  SOC is set to 100%, when the Classic goes to Float (on its own, NOT if you force it in the Tweaks menu).
It is the Net Ah, early in the AM, that tells you the amount of Ah removed from the battery.  But, if the battery is never getting fully recharged, this number is not so valuable.

Yes, do set Absorb time to six hours, and EA to about 5.4-ish Amps, and observe.
AND, after tomorrow's charge, please take and record SG of all cells.

Your battery bank really needs to get as fully-charged as is possible,  and probably hours of EQ.

Thanks for the info,  Good Luck, Vic

I do know that SOC and battery V is not very accurate way to measure as they fluctuate, I only use it as a quick dirty guide but they are pointless.

Abs of 30v scares me a little, I had not tested the abs 29.2v yet, I was still on 28.8v. I'm thinking maybe just sticking with he US Battery datasheet for a couple days to see if the SG goes up. abs 2.45v per cell (29.4v).

The 30.6v for EQ does scare me, can this damage my electronics connected to the battery?

I guess at the end of bulk charge, if I check the SG it should of brought it up somewhat, the abs just does the finishing top off?

OK, good.
I do not recall when the first two L16 batts first went into service, but thought that it was last season, at the latest.

FLAs that have used NO water,  over months and months of use,  are not being fully charged.

My thinking that, based on what we can see of your system, from way over here, that it might be time for some remedial action.

Not my system ...

Are you using the MN BTS ?

A system that uses FLA batts, that cannot tolerate 30-ish batt voltage,  might, generally be in a bit of trouble, at least in climates that can become a bit coolish.

Good Luck, Vic

[Simonbr]

OK, good.
I do not recall when the first two L16 batts first went into service, but thought that it was last season, at the latest.

FLAs that have used NO water,  over months and months of use,  are not being fully charged.

My thinking that, based on what we can see of your system, from way over here, that it might be time for some remedial action.

Not my system ...

Are you using the MN BTS ?

A system that uses FLA batts, that cannot tolerate 30-ish batt voltage,  might, generally be in a bit of trouble, at least in climates that can become a bit coolish.

Good Luck, Vic

You are right, in the end if it’s not getting a full charge so the settings are not high enough to charge. Yes one pair last may and the second pair of batteries this may.

What is a MN BTS?

Is 30v generally ok for electronics on a 24v system?

[ClassicCrazy]

BTS is the Battery Temperature Sensor that came with the Classic and is placed on a battery to know it's temperature.
The Classic uses that temperature and the temp compensation setting to automatically change the charge absorb and float voltage settings higher if it is cold and lower if it gets too hot.
Larry

[Simonbr]

BTS is the Battery Temperature Sensor that came with the Classic and is placed on a battery to know it's temperature.
The Classic uses that temperature and the temp compensation setting to automatically change the charge absorb and float voltage settings higher if it is cold and lower if it gets too hot.
Larry

Ah ok yes i do have the battery temp sensor installed

[Vic]

Simon,

Yes,  I have suggested changing several things. And, this approach is not Scientific.

BUT, it is generally not a good thing to allow FLA batteries to sit around in a state of under-charge. This can cause the Sulfates to harden on the plates.  This is very difficult to remove,  often, really impossible to remove, and that results in a permanent reduction in Capacity.

Yes, IIRC, you have a DC fridge, connected to the battery bank.  It is valid to be concerned with its ability of handle and operate at elevated battery voltages.  Something, with which, I have NO experience.

If your batteries are significantly under-charged,  IMO, you will not approach 1.3-ish percent of Capacity near the end of Abosrb.

Please DO take the SGs of all cells, today, around the end of Absorb, or in Float, just as a check.  AND, note diffences twix the older, and newer batts.

Thanks, Vic

[Simonbr]

Simon,

Yes,  I have suggested changing several things. And, this approach is not Scientific.

BUT, it is generally not a good thing to allow FLA batteries to sit around in a state of under-charge. This can cause the Sulfates to harden on the plates.  This is very difficult to remove,  often, really impossible to remove, and that results in a permanent reduction in Capacity.

Yes, IIRC, you have a DC fridge, connected to the battery bank.  It is valid to be concerned with its ability of handle and operate at elevated battery voltages.  Something, with which, I have NO experience.

If your batteries are significantly under-charged,  IMO, you will not approach 1.3-ish percent of Capacity near the end of Abosrb.

Please DO take the SGs of all cells, today, around the end of Absorb, or in Float, just as a check.  AND, note diffences twix the older, and newer batts.

Thanks, Vic

I am not able to do anything today as it is raining and I am not getting much into my CC. Tomorrow is another day!

my fridge is able to use an AC to DC adapter I can always purchase so I can use while doing EQ. Or even better I can use a voltage stabilizer/regulator that works on 24v and regulated voltage so its stable at 24ish instead of 29 to 30 range. Found one on amazon ->

https://www.amazon.ca/Cocar-Voltage-Regulator-Stabilizer-Protector/dp/B084Z68JN9/ref=sr_1_4?crid=ZGMM01UXNUYA&keywords=24v+stabilizer&qid=1657047490&s=electronics&sprefix=24v+stabilizer%2Celectronics%2C84&sr=1-4
https://www.amazon.ca/EKYLIN-Stabilizer-Protector-Regulator-DC10-36V/dp/B071GBMSD3