Where is the End Amp Setting?

[Matrix]

Also ... back to End Amps specifically as it relates to charge and 100% charge.  Is it even possible I am getting a full charge up from 75% in less than 4 hrs at a max of 45-54 amps max during the bulk charge stage?

[Westbranch]

Have you ever recorded the Ah used overnight and the Ah replaced by the end of the day?
This data is available via the Local App and also the Android version you mentioned.

[Vic]

Also ... back to End Amps specifically as it relates to charge and 100% charge.  Is it even possible I am getting a full charge up from 75% in less than 4 hrs at a max of 45-54 amps max during the bulk charge stage?

YES !!   In theory,   about 3 hours would do it,   using 45 A/hour,  true 435 Ah Capacity  and about 85% charge Efficiency,   and given that that 45 amp/hour  is all going into the battery (as reported by the WbJr).

IMO,    Vic

[Vic]

...   I broke my glass Hydro 2 days ago.  I ordered a Temp Comped Hydro Volt and it arrives tomorrow.   I think it will be a bit more durable and a bit more readable.  I have not idea of the Accuracy of that unit.  But I had no idea of the accuracy of my glass temp comped unit either.

Sorry to hear about the glass Hydro breaking.
The HydroVolt is considered good and accurate.   I did buy several to test,   when MidNite just began distributing them.   Have seen two of them that would not give a reading until they were gently banged a bit on the cell's vent tube.   The only other issue was that the sample tube  was several inches TOO SHORT for batteries with a large reserve electrolyte capacity (space above the plates,   like the Surrette 5000 series).   So no sample could be drawn,  unless the batteries were over-filled with electrolyte.  Went back to using the tried and true Freas glassworks Hydros.

Just make absolutely certain that you rinse the HydroVolt three or four times with Distilled Water,   as there is a lot of surface area that contacts electrolyte,   and all of this must be thoroughly rinsed away,   else,   Accuracy  will be affected.

I had no reason to believe,   that when the scales move after taking a sample,   that the HydroVolt was anything but accurate ...   yea  kinna inverted multi-negatives.

FWIW,   just my experience from about three,  or so years ago.   Vic

[Matrix]

Well got the Hydro Volt today.  Hmmmm ... not sure if its my ineptness or just what ... but I would get 4 different numbers from 4 different attempts in the same cell.  Is that the Temp Comp just settling in?  One time it would be 1285, then .. 75, ... then ... 80.  Tapping seemed to help.  And after about 3-5 samples it seemed it would level off and be consistent.    

I did notice a few things about the Hydro Volt:
1. You have to squeeze the ball really hard and flat.  Even though the glass view was full,  it seemed the more liquid I could get in it (beyond the glass view) the more better it read.
2. Air bubbles will trap around the bottom of the pointing needle.  That (it would seem to me) would make the floating needle float higher.  Tapping seemed to fix it ... but made me wonder if there were other bubbles floating in places behind the multiple moving parts I could not see.

So I am not sure if  I got a bad one ... or if its me ... or is that just the nature of this kind of Hydro.  I may send it back and order another glass one ... but I cannot hardly read it ... so I would be just  about as inaccurate with it.

As to my cells.  In a 12 day old  24v 4 series battery bank,  is it common at full charge after an EQ that you would have cells ranging from 1276 to 1285?  Most were just below or nearest 1280 ... but 5 cells were odd ducks either hi or low of 1280.   

Would checking SG while charging in bulk mode effect this?  Effect over all SG upwards?  Trojan says my SG at 100% should be 1277.  I would guess that testing while charging in Bulk would have an upwards effect.  But by how many point I dont know.  But I am more concerned / interested in why there is such a swing in the cells ... from the 1276 to the 1285.  I had 2 cells at 1285 according to the Hydro Volt.

[Vic]

Hi Matrix,

Believe that I gave the following Link about measuring SGs from Surrette battery in another Thread:

http://support.rollsbattery.com/support/solutions/articles/4347-measuring-specific-gravity

Please read it carefully.   The only difference between your Trojan batteries vs Surrettes is that the SG vs SOC table in the Linked article are a bit different (Surrette uses 1.265 SG electrolyte in their Soar batts,  and Trojan 1.277 for full charge), and the reference temp for Trojan is 80 F.

YES you should draw and  expel two or three samples,  and take the reading on the following sample.

Regarding the air bubbles,   perhaps the new Hydro will settle in with repeated use.

Air bubbles  are the enemy of accurate readings (in general).   If gently tapping the HydroVolt dislodges them,  then it is probably a good idea to tap.

Many users of the HydroVolt like them a lot,   so do try to give it a good trial.

Would not bother taking SGs during Bulk,   as in Bulk the batteries are not fully-charged. As you probably know,  the SG of the electrolyte is a direct indication of the SOC of that cell.  During Bulk,  one would expect that the battery SOC would generally be lower that of a fully-charged battery.   Also,  during Abosrb (by definition for Flooded batteries),   this is the common charge stage where cell Gassing occurs.   This gassing is good,   as it helps mix the electrolyte. During battery discharge,  the electrolyte can become Stratified (higher SG electrolyte sinks toward the bottom of the cells).   Gassing helps reverse this,  because gassing causes bubbling all over the plates,   and mixes electrolyte.   EQing Flooded batteries creates even more vigorous gassing,   so better mixing yer (among other things).

Forget just how much PV power you have,  but trying to cycle your batteries somewhat below 80% SOC on occasion  is probably a good idea.  Would try to get them down to about 60%  on occasion,   especially in the first month or two.

It is fairly common to see SGs vary more during battery break-in than after.

Guess that you have not needed to add any Distilled Water to the bank yet.   Sometimes SG readings can be a bit high if those cells are a bit low on water.

Keep at it.   It is very good that you are paying close attention to your new battery bank.

Vic

[Matrix]

Yes the water is (and has been from the factory) full.  And from day 1, it is actually slightly over filled.  The Trojan User Guide says 1/8" below the bottom fill tube,  but all the cells are probably an 1/16" to 1/8" over the bottom fill tube.  Wondering if I should remove some "water".  I had thought they would "boil" out pretty quickly, but they have not. 

Also,  starting to get a feel for the Hydro Volt.  I think it will be OK.  At least I can read it. 

I read over at Battery University that .010 is acceptable for a variance between cells.  So my swing of 1.276 - 1.284 is OK.

And still working with End Amp and Absorb voltage ... today was full sun.  Woke up to a 74% usage and by 1pm the system went into float.  At 4:30pm I checked the SG.  The classic amp was reporting a 100% charge ... but the SG was 1.260% which is just over 90%.   So I am ...
1. Moving the Absorb charge up .2  from 29.4 to 29.6
2. Moving the End Amp down from 5 to 4.5

Is that too much too fast? 

[Vic]

Matrix,

Do NOT remove electrolyte from any cells.  Your electrolyte levels sound fine.   Battery temperature and charge stage has some effect on the relative height of the electrolyte  --  bubbles from cell gassing caused the level of the electrolyte to rise.

There are normal variations in cell SGs,   water consumption,  etc. When trying to determine SOC,   using your Hydrometer,  measuring SGs when the battery has been in Float for 1 - 2 hours is often recommended.   Of course,   we do measure SGs during the EQ process,   which is a different thing.

Fine on the changes to Vabs and EA.   Cycling the battery often helps stabilize some of the early variations that one sees in battery behavior.

Look to the Trojan battery manual for recommendations on charging/EQing/maintaining YOUR batteries.   Different battery manufacturers have different guidelines and recommendations.

Hope that the HydroVolt will work out for you.   FWIW,   Vic

[Westbranch]

Matrix, if you really want to know what the effect on a specific parameter change is you should only change one factor at a time.. Nothing wrong with adjusting 2 at the same time , but seeing as you are just starting it would be a good part of the learning curve to do them separately IMHO...   

[mike90045]

if you are not using water, you are not charging enough

[Matrix]

Matrix, if you really want to know what the effect on a specific parameter change is you should only change one factor at a time.. Nothing wrong with adjusting 2 at the same time , but seeing as you are just starting it would be a good part of the learning curve to do them separately IMHO...   

Thanks ... that is a good idea.  I think I will dial it back to one parameter at a time.

if you are not using water, you are not charging enough

I kinda thought that might be the case.  But the battery bank has only been in service for 12 days now.  I am on a learning curve.  I don't want to baby the batteries,  but also dont want to prematurely kill them either.

[Matrix]

Here is where I am tonight.   We got full sun today with a cloudless sky in N Florida,  the Classic 150 charged for about 4 hours and reported 100% charged.  But when i check the SG ... it was down ... to 1.258 ... or 90% according to Trojan.  The Hi temp today was 68* F.  My understanding is that i have the temp compensation set correctly in the Classic CC and that it should compensate for the Temp variances + or - 77*F.  I have temp compensation set to -5 in the CC.

So to get the charge up.  I switched on the Inverter's charger.  But it keeps switching out of Bulk and Absorb pretty quickly, and my SG is not getting above 1.260 (should be 1.277 for fully charged).  The Inverter's Charger DOES NOT have Temp compensation.

The Out Side Ambient Temp in the Room is now 50* F.   So my question is:
1. The Hydro Volt has built in Temp Compensation.  So that means what it reads should be correct no matter what the temp is correct?
2.  Trojans FAQ page says "Trojan recommends using the following: For every 1º F below 77º F add 0.0028 volts per cell "   But they never say ... is that Battery Temp ... or Ambient Room Temp? 
- My battery is at 60*F using the Schneider Temp probe on the Neg terminal
- My room is at 50*F
- Do I compensate for 60* or 50* ... 77-60= 17 or 77-50=27 ?? (I know,  a dumb questions, but it is not clear to me)
3. From my above setting in the CC ... do I have the right value set in the Temp Compensation for the CC based on the above quote from Trojans FAQ page on Temp comp of .0028 per cell for every 1*?

So far with an ambient room temp of 50* F I cannot get the battery SG to rise above 1.260 using the Hydro Volt.  But I only just 10 minutes ago did a battery comp for 60* F and am going to see what the charge does when it finishes again.

[Westbranch]

An offf the wall question, have ALL the wiring connections been re torqued after the system was put in place? 

Copper, under compression, has the characteristic to 'flow' when screwed down...

[Matrix]

An offf the wall question, have ALL the wiring connections been re torqued after the system was put in place? 

Copper, under compression, has the characteristic to 'flow' when screwed down...

Yes, twice now. 

[Westbranch]

what about the cable end crimps?  Factory made?

Have you taken a SG reading in the morning wand compared that to the 75% +-  SoC reading you get?

It appears that the Charger is doing the same as the Classic and both 'see' a near full battery.

A bad cable?  Do you have a clamp on Amp meter?