Newbie here running my system for a year now. but a few quirks:
My system was reading 94% SOC but still in float mode in the morning. Shouldn't it bulk charge to get the system back up to 100%. It was still like this at noon and even dropped to 93% SOC. I run a 48 volt system, 12 Trojan J2000 batteries, 3,600 watts of solar panels and a 2000 watt wind turbine.
I turned off the classic 150 and turned ti back on. It then went into Bulk charge. Do I need to change some settings?
Not sure but you might check the SKIP days menu to make sure it isn't set to skip Bulk/Absorb for a certain number of days.
That is in one of the CHARGE menus on the right side of the menu. Can't remember exactly which one at the moment
Bring that number down to zero if it is set to some non-zero skip days value. Don't forget to press ENTER to save it so it remembers.
HI billmill,
boB, wondered if your Classic was set to Skip Days (causes the Classic to not do a full charge for the number of days set in a Charge menu).
Question: Is your Classic set to Skip Days ??
Here is how to check:
In the Charge menu, scroll to the Advanced page. At the right of that page, under Skip Days, if there is any number other than zero, under that label, then, the Classic will NOT do a Bulk>Absorb cycle for that number of days.
Please check this, and report back.
Thanks, Vic
It was set for 0 days. If I turn the unit off and back on, it will go to bulk charge. I wonder if the absorb has a time to meet? sot sure how all the settings work yet.
Quote from: billmill on April 09, 2020, 11:03:32 AM
It was set for 0 days. If I turn the unit off and back on, it will go to bulk charge. I wonder if the absorb has a time to meet? sot sure how all the settings work yet.
Hi Bill,
Thanks for checking on Skip Days.
Absorb time setting is in the Charge menu: Chg Time. This would normally be 2 - 4 hours, depending on the DOD of the battery in the previous discharge.
Would use the recommended Absorb voltage (and other charge parameters), recommended by Trojan.
In the Tweaks menu, you will find a Force Bulk (Blk), which will begin a new charge cycle. If you would prefer not switching the Classic off, and back on to do so.
In the Advanced Menu, there is an End Amps setting. Make sure that this is set to 0.0, unless you want to use this function.
In the rear of the Classic manual, there is a Menu Map on about page 72. This will help you find where different settings are found.
All for now, FWIW, Vic
Check your clock, it is a 24hr clock and if set wrong the classic will stay in float the next day and switch at noon instead
Absorb time is 2 hours and ending amps is 3.6. and the wiz bang JR box is not checked in my Status panel. but I think I talked to a tech from midnite and he told me to set it at 3.6 for the wiz bang Jr. not sure though.
I called midnite and he said to make sure my shunt was selected( it was not) and to figure out the end amps. So I will have to monitor every 5-10 minutes, the absorb time and see the lowest amperage as it evens out at before it ends and goes to float. Also he said to increase the absorb time by a few hours to make sure the averages of times are more accurate towards the end of the cycle.
Quote from: FNG on April 09, 2020, 01:51:09 PM
Check your clock, it is a 24hr clock and if set wrong the classic will stay in float the next day and switch at noon instead
Hi Ryan,
Had wondered about the Clock's affect on this, but was uncertain.
Thanks for this info. 73 Be safe, Vic
Quote from: billmill on April 09, 2020, 02:37:28 PM
I called midnite and he said to make sure my shunt was selected( it was not) and to figure out the end amps. So I will have to monitor every 5-10 minutes, the absorb time and see the lowest amperage as it evens out at before it ends and goes to float. Also he said to increase the absorb time by a few hours to make sure the averages of times are more accurate towards the end of the cycle.
Hi Bill,
The WbJr current (this is the charge current going into the battery) will diminish as the Absorb stage continues.
It is suggested that one sets the Charge Time to hours more than one would need on a normal Absorb. This keeps the normal Absorb time from stopping Absorb, before the Wb current has diminished to its ultimate value.
You will probably want to reset the Absorb timer to a value that is somewhat longer than you would ever expect Absorb to be.
As you know, for our Flooded LA (FLA) batteries, this is usually about 1 to 2 percent of the 20 hour Capacity of the battery bank. Or, somewhere between about 8 and 16 End Amps. On the FLA banks here, the ideal End Amps value will change, based on the DOD of the battery, in the previous discharge.
Opinions, FWIW, Vic
I have it set at 4 hours now. Should it be longer?
Hi Bill,
Four hours is probably long enough. BUT, why not set it to six hours, just for the time that you are trying to determine at what point, the Wb current stops falling. Then reset the time to something like 2 - 3 hours.
You just want the Classic to not end Absorb from having reached the charge time setting, but stay in Absorb long enough to see the end of the current tapering.
Vic
It was 2 hours but I changed it to 4 today. I will monitor it.
I also did a hydrometer reading today and there was only one cell at 1.280. All the rest were 1.290-1.295
The Trojan manual says they should be at leas t 1.177
The batteries were at 100% SOC and 51.4v The reading was done o hour after resting mode. I will do a reading in the morning to double check the readings. The manual says to wait 12-24 hours after a full charge but I would have to shut off the PV for a day to do that right?
The clock is used to know when its a new day and as such when to start a new bulk charge so at 23:99 it trips to a new day and thus a new bulk charge so if you set the clock at say 1PM and set it for 01:00 not 13:00 it is off by 12 hours and as such will wake up in float each day (provided it went to float the day prior)
How do I check the clock and set ti correctly?
Hi Bill,
You will need to have a copy of the Classic manual.
Please choose the manual version from the list, here:
http://www.midnitesolar.com/doc_prod_list.php?menuItem=products&productCat_ID=21&productCatName=Charge%20Controllers%20-%20Classics
In the back part of the manual, around page 72, or so, is a Menu Map, that will help you understand how the menus are laid out.
The Clock is in the Misc menu. When setting the clock, like most other menu items, be certain to press Enter, when you have reset the time.
Vic
Quote from: billmill on April 10, 2020, 07:12:07 AM
How do I check the clock and set ti correctly?
On the MNGP right round button to the setting - go to Misc and there is a Time setting in there to adjust the clock.
Larry
In the time an date set menu you can also check that the time inside the classic itself.
I think it's the LEFT-ARROW you hold down and tap the UPPER-RIGHT soft key it should
bring up the Classic time-date.
Within the misc time setting, the clock and date is already set correctly but I don't see any options fo a 12 or 24 hour setting?
Hi Bill,
IIRC, there is NO option for a 12 hr clock. It really needs to 24 hours, particularly when thinking about Logging.
My guess, Vic
There is no option to set a 12 or 24 hour day that I can see in the midnite controller under misc time. Only setting the actual time which I have already done.
Bill, you may have missed my previous Post, as we Posted within several minutes of each other.
The Classic Clock IS 24 hours. There is no AM/PM. 1:00 PM is 13:00, etc.
Vic
Lol I gathered.
So the things I changed or decided to do were, reading the battery set up types and efficiencies link here in the posts, setting on the shunt function in WBjr, leaving my end charge at 3.6, changing my efficiency to 95 instead of 85%, and setting my absorb from 2 hrs to 4. I also created a battery cell chart and copied 10 of them, did a hydro reading of every cell and unhooked every battery (all were higher than recommended at %100 SOC), cleaned, reconditioned and charged all 12 batteries, hooked the Midnight to my modem installed the Midnite solar status panel on my computer and re-checked the timer on the Midnite controller.
I still need to run through the end amps process with no load and figure out the best number for that. What do you predict will be the best setting on one year old 48v system with 12 Trojan J200 RE batteries that are in excellent condition? I still have not wrapped my thoughts around the end amp concept yet but did search and read the posts here. My thoughts are I should lower the end amps less than 3.6 eh?
Does anyone use an app to remote view\control their system with their phone? If so which one is best for android?
Looks like something worked because its 8:15am here and just noticed I am in bulk mode with 85 volts, 122 watts, and 2.4 amps coming in the system.
The SOC is at 94%with a 100 watt over night load. Not sure if that corresponds to a correct DOD or not since I don't know much about that so far but things are looking up.
Hi Bill,
OK on your measurements and progress.
One note on the Hydrometer: Be certain to rinse your Hydro, at least three times, with Distilled Water, to help keep its readings accurate.
SG readings on your Hydrometer do need temperature compensation if the batteries are cold, or hot. Normally, this is not needed for batteries kept in a moderate environment.
There is a Classic Monitoring App for Android phones, written by Graham:
http://midniteftp.com/forum/index.php?topic=1589.0
If all of your battery strings are all balanced, and working well together, you should have approximately 800 Ah of Capacity (IIRC). This would suggest that you might expect a nominal EA value of approximately 8 A, where the Wb current stops diminishing, in Absorb. This assumes that your battery does not need an EQ, and that your DOD in the previous cycle is only to about 85, or 90% SOC, and your Absorb voltage is correctly temperature compensated, you are using a nominal Absorb voltage, recommended by Trojan, etc.
FWIW, Vic
Batteries are in the basement and constant 66' F. I washed the Hydro in distilled water at least 5 times after I did the readings. Thanks for the link to the app. I will check it out.
Quote from: billmill on April 12, 2020, 07:59:02 AM
… So the things I changed or decided to do were … changing my efficiency to 95 instead of 85%, and setting my absorb from 2 hrs to 4 ...
Hi Bill,
A couple of things:
New Flooded Lead Acid (FLA) batteries in our off-grid systems are not 95%, or 85%, or, probably not even 75% efficient. The efficiency specs form most FLA manufacturers are based on taking the battery to 0% SOC, usually at the 20-Hour Rate, recharging it at that rate, and measuring how many Ah it required to fully-charge the battery. Then calculate the efficiency from that.
We do not use our batteries in that manner. Often, our average rate of discharge is at the 100 hour value, or, even lower. This makes the battery appear to have a greater Capacity.
Most battery manufacturers specify an on-grid profile, so, they can spec a constant charge rate (constant current), which our PV charge systems cannot provide in any reasonable amount of time.
And so on …
One note on the accuracy of SOC readings on essentially any battery monitor, is that the SOC readings are only an approximation. A rough estimate, because there are SO many variables that affect SOCs, depending on just how the battery was discharged, and re-charged.
Battery monitors, and the WbJr can count Ah into and out of the battery very accurately, but actual SOC needs to account for many other factors, that these devices simply cannot.
You will want to set a fairly long Absorb timer setting, when your are watching the Wb battery charge current, as noted previously. But, with normal charging form 85-ish percent SOC, you should not need 4 hours of Absorb, just trying to be clear.
All IMO, FWIW, Have fun, be safe, Vic