Strange reset during the day

[boB]

dogfox,

I need to know a few more things about your setup...

You are connected to internet or local network in static IP mode.

Was web access enabled or disabled when it reset ?

Were you connected to the classic with the Local App to view the Classic when it reset ?

What kind of router do you have ?


On your clipper, sounds like you are doing it correctly.

Since you are a techno kind of guy, you may be able to add a suitable failsafe
self-trigger by using the DC output of the rectifier to turn on your SSR input when
that DC voltage rises above a preset set-point, say, 150 volts DC.
If the SSR uses an LED input coming from the Classic's Aux output, you can use
a diode to OR in your fail-safe trigger to light that LED and trigger the SSR on to
load the turbine.  Since the input voltage may be high (150 VDC) you could add
a current source so that you do not overdrive the LED when you want it to trigger.

Or, just do like you mentioned and let the Arduino do the work.  That sounds a lot
funner.  Just use a resistor voltage divider and input that to one of its A/D converter
inputs.

Sorry, I did not catch what kind of SSR you were using or if it was a relay or contactor.

boB

[Halfcrazy]

Something to consider on Emergency Stop systems for a wind turbine. I prefer to have them fail safe, one can not assume or guarantee any electronic device will stay running 100%. I mean a breaker could trip or the Cat could hit the breaker and turn it off. I know our clipper is pricey and for most people who like to tinker it is easy to build there own stuff.

So what I prefer to do is use a pilot relay to drive my SSR's, that switch the resistors or short the phases. This way my Pilot relay can be NC and the Classics Aux Logic can be reversed. It is a little more wasteful do to coil draw but it will make for a fail safe system.

Anyhow to the point Andrew is looking into this now and needs as much info as any one can provide. Is there any real trigger that anyone sees or is it real random? Also if anyone experiencing this can tell us there routers brand and model so we can try to duplicate it for Andrew that would be great.

Ryan

[dogfox]

Dump load is on turbine side of a 3 phase rectifier (200A).  Dump load is switched on with 3-32v dc to three 50A SSRs turned on currently by one of the auxs on the midnite.  Each SSR connects to a phase of the turbine.  Dumpload is three 10ohm resistors wired in a delta config, one phase to each point.  DC output of the rectifier is then fed into the midnite.

Just a small comment if I may. When switching a dumpload across a 3-phase circuit in either star or delta, you only need *TWO* relays. You could pull that third one out and keep it for a spare or something

Hi Ross,

Really?  I would love to see a circuit diagram, cuz as it happens, I need another for a different project.  TIA

[RossW]

Dump load is on turbine side of a 3 phase rectifier (200A).  Dump load is switched on with 3-32v dc to three 50A SSRs turned on currently by one of the auxs on the midnite.  Each SSR connects to a phase of the turbine.  Dumpload is three 10ohm resistors wired in a delta config, one phase to each point.  DC output of the rectifier is then fed into the midnite.

Just a small comment if I may. When switching a dumpload across a 3-phase circuit in either star or delta, you only need *TWO* relays. You could pull that third one out and keep it for a spare or something

Hi Ross,

Really?  I would love to see a circuit diagram, cuz as it happens, I need another for a different project.  TIA

Ahhh.... it's simple!


Turbine                     Dumpload
A -----------] [-----------/\/\/\/----|
B------------] [-----------/\/\/\/----|
C--------------------------/\/\/\/----|

Put your two relay contacts as shown.  (This is drawn as star, but works the same for delta)
When relay 'A' and 'B' are open, you don't have to open 'C' as no current can flow anyway!

[dogfox]

dogfox,

I need to know a few more things about your setup...

You are connected to internet or local network in static IP mode.

Yes

Was web access enabled or disabled when it reset ?

Enabled.  It was after the second reset that I started researching whether others were experiencing these issues and I read about web access possibly being a culprit.  I have since turned web access off.    I have no reliable way of seeing if its still resetting or not.

Were you connected to the classic with the Local App to view the Classic when it reset ?

Don't recall if I was for the first reset.  I am sure local app was running for the second tho.  I know that doesn't help troubleshooting.

What kind of router do you have ?

The Classic and the arduino are connected to a router I picked up from a local electronics house
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=YN8305
That router forms a wireless bridge to get to my home router, a netcomm 3G18WV
The netcomm is configured to use 3g permanently for web access.

On your clipper, sounds like you are doing it correctly.

Since you are a techno kind of guy, you may be able to add a suitable failsafe
self-trigger by using the DC output of the rectifier to turn on your SSR input when
that DC voltage rises above a preset set-point, say, 150 volts DC.
If the SSR uses an LED input coming from the Classic's Aux output, you can use
a diode to OR in your fail-safe trigger to light that LED and trigger the SSR on to
load the turbine.  Since the input voltage may be high (150 VDC) you could add
a current source so that you do not overdrive the LED when you want it to trigger.

I thought about that solution but it was rather limiting.. I need to be able to turn on the dumpload under several different conditions.

Or, just do like you mentioned and let the Arduino do the work.  That sounds a lot
funner.  Just use a resistor voltage divider and input that to one of its A/D converter
inputs.

I am currently doing exactly that.  The divider is set up so that I can read up to 212 volts.

Sorry, I did not catch what kind of SSR you were using or if it was a relay or contactor.
boB

relay model SSR 50 DA

Thanks Bob for trying to get to the bottom of this.

[RossW]

The Classic and the arduino are connected to a router I picked up from a local electronics house
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=YN8305

Hah, I hadn't caught that you're another .au.  Western Vic, you can't be more than 4 or 5 hours drive from me (on the NSW/Vic border, on the Hume Hwy).

Do you have a linux or FreeBSD box on your network? Might have something useful to monitor your box...

[dogfox]

Just a small comment if I may. When switching a dumpload across a 3-phase circuit in either star or delta, you only need *TWO* relays. You could pull that third one out and keep it for a spare or something

Turbine                     Dumpload
A -----------] [-----------/\/\/\/----|
B------------] [-----------/\/\/\/----|
C--------------------------/\/\/\/----|

Put your two relay contacts as shown.  (This is drawn as star, but works the same for delta)
When relay 'A' and 'B' are open, you don't have to open 'C' as no current can flow anyway!

Of course.  Brilliant..  Thanks RossW

[dogfox]

The Classic and the arduino are connected to a router I picked up from a local electronics house
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=YN8305

Hah, I hadn't caught that you're another .au.  Western Vic, you can't be more than 4 or 5 hours drive from me (on the NSW/Vic border, on the Hume Hwy).

Do you have a linux or FreeBSD box on your network? Might have something useful to monitor your box...

Up the Hume eh.  Lovely country up there.   
Nope no linux boxen round here.  Which 'box'  are you referring to ?

[RossW]

Up the Hume eh.  Lovely country up there.   
Nope no linux boxen round here.  Which 'box'  are you referring to ?

Oh well. I was thinking of a way for you to read data from your classic and log locally, but my code has only been compiled and tested for Linux, FreeBSD, OS/X and the RaspberryPi at this stage.

[dogfox]

Something to consider on Emergency Stop systems for a wind turbine. I prefer to have them fail safe, one can not assume or guarantee any electronic device will stay running 100%. I mean a breaker could trip or the Cat could hit the breaker and turn it off. I know our clipper is pricey and for most people who like to tinker it is easy to build there own stuff.

So what I prefer to do is use a pilot relay to drive my SSR's, that switch the resistors or short the phases. This way my Pilot relay can be NC and the Classics Aux Logic can be reversed. It is a little more wasteful do to coil draw but it will make for a fail safe system.

That is what I am endevouring to do, eventually.  The dumpload trigger will be normally 'on' and powered by its own power supply and the arduino will just turn it 'off' under the right conditions.

Anyhow to the point Andrew is looking into this now and needs as much info as any one can provide. Is there any real trigger that anyone sees or is it real random? Also if anyone experiencing this can tell us there routers brand and model so we can try to duplicate it for Andrew that would be great.

Ryan

If there is anything I can do or provide, just ask

[dgd]

Something to consider on Emergency Stop systems for a wind turbine. I prefer to have them fail safe, one can not assume or guarantee any electronic device will stay running 100%. I mean a breaker could trip or the Cat could hit the breaker and turn it off. I know our clipper is pricey and for most people who like to tinker it is easy to build there own stuff.

So what I prefer to do is use a pilot relay to drive my SSR's, that switch the resistors or short the phases. This way my Pilot relay can be NC and the Classics Aux Logic can be reversed. It is a little more wasteful do to coil draw but it will make for a fail safe system.

Ryan

I thought about this last year when I made a 'clipper'. Problem is when that cat  (or cockatoo in my case) trips the main battery inverter and all power is down then that pilot relay has no energy to make the ssr live hence no dump resistors in the turbine ac.
A normally closed contractor would be final fail safe just stopping the turbine, the ssr/resistor setup is useful to slow the turbine but keep it spinning and making power.
So a NC contactor on AUX1 with active PV LOW set to max voltage and hold time set to stop contractor chattering is a good voltage clipper and fail safe device. No power contactor goes NC turbine shuts down.

Dogfox will have similar issues if his electronics dies as ssr will not close, interesting to see his design around this with the arduino 

Dgd

[boB]

Thanks dogfox et. al.    (who would want to eat Al anyway ? Yech !)

Digesting the information and our man in France is making some headway.

DGD, have you looked at our latest modbus document that talks about
setting the time and date via special functions  0x68 and 0x69 (104/105) ??

boB

[RossW]

Just noticed I'd had another couple of resets yesterday.
Not much sun, currents and temperatures low all day, no sudden changes in output etc..





I don't have the latest firmware so can't report the "where did it fail" state for you Bob (sorry!).
Not planning to upgrade to it just yet because of the ethernet problems as discussed.

[boB]

OK, try this newest and latest...

http://fusion.midnitesolar.com/MidNiteSolarSetup_6-8-2013_v3.73.exe

I hadn't actually seen the third party modbus over ethernet problems but I just tried this with
modpol and it does work.  I do have to wait just a moment before reading the Classic a second
time, but I only stopped the batch file (it runs in a loop) and re-run it right away and it works
and reads the Classic again.

I ~think~ that Andrew made a change that ~might~ fix the resets...  I don't know for sure.

boB

[RossW]

OK, try this newest and latest...

http://fusion.midnitesolar.com/MidNiteSolarSetup_6-8-2013_v3.73.exe

I hadn't actually seen the third party modbus over ethernet problems but I just tried this with
modpol and it does work.  I do have to wait just a moment before reading the Classic a second
time, but I only stopped the batch file (it runs in a loop) and re-run it right away and it works
and reads the Classic again.

I ~think~ that Andrew made a change that ~might~ fix the resets...  I don't know for sure.

Bob, applied this latest firmware to my box. At least it doesn't seem to have the ethernet problems of the previous version. I'm logging now and will see what happens when (if) I get another spontaneous reset.