Needing Help with Components Needed for Off Grid 48volt Solar+Wind system

[warreng5995]

Hi Everyone!

I've read a lot of material here, but this is my first post.

I found out about MidNite products after several people recommended MidNite Charge Controllers on another forum.

This will be our first Alternative Power System, and I am trying to research and understand exactly what I need before we buy a bunch of stuff and it not work, or not work properly. Many people will say/have said (on other sites) to start with a small system and then add to it, or upgrade to a larger one later.

However, we need power at our small farm with-in the next couple months. And I want to do it right the first time, and have a system that is capable of doing what we need, and not waste a bunch of $$$ on components that I will just have to turn around and replace/upgrade.

I have also visited a local company, Missouri Wind & Solar, who deals in wind and solar systems. Some of their stuff I like, some of it I'm not sure about, and some things (after doing more research) I really think there are much better options such as their charge controllers.

So... with having said all that. Here is the basics of the system we are planning:

---------------------------

#1 - We have only purchased one component so far:

AIMS 10,000 watt 48 volt Split Phase 120/240vac Inverter Charger - Model #: PICOGLF10KW48V240VS
Link: http://www.aimscorp.net/10000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-to-120-240vac.html

Although we have purchased this, it is on backordered, so we won't actually have it for a few more weeks.

---------------------------

#2 -Solar Panels - 10 (qty) 230 Watt 24 Volt Polycrystalline
Product Link: http://goo.gl/qvJmHm

Specs:
Nominal Maximum Output - 230 Watts
Nominal Open Circuit Voltage - 37.1 Volts
Nominal Short Circuit Current - 8.21 Amps
Nominal Maximum Output Voltage - 29.8 Volts
Nominal Maximum Output Current - 7.71 Amps
Conversion Efficiency - 14.14%
Nominal Mass - 42 lbs / 19 kg
Dimensions - 64.4 x 39.1 x 1.6 in / 1636 x 994 x 40 mm (assembled by rivets)
Cells - 60 pcs polycrystalline
Cells Dimensions - 6.14 x 6.14 in / 156 x 156 mm
Maximum System Voltage - 1000 Volts European Standard / 600 Volts USA Standard

-------------------

#3 - 2000 watt Missouri Freedom II Wind Turbine Generator (PMG - not PMA) $797
Product Link: http://goo.gl/LRKv0O

These have 3 phase AC output. This Turbine can be wired for either 48 volt or 96 volt. It is basically 2(qty) 1kw generators built into one case/one shaft. Each generator is 48 volt. It can be purchased in lower voltages, such as 24/48 volt.

This being an 11 Blade Turbine will start turning in much lower wind speeds (3-4 mph) and will at least produce some power, even when wind is low. But when wind is high, it will still produce good power along with the 5 blade turbine together.

I am planning on purchasing two of these turbines, one with a 5 blade setup, and another with an 11 blade setup. Different blades for different wind speeds, the 11 will be to start up and run in lower winds, the 5 will be to start up in moderate winds, but will top out at higher RPM's.

---------------------

I'm not going to bother posting their charge controllers and such, as I don't think they are a very good option.

I know I didn't mention batteries, I am currently trying to locate and obtain 2-volt deep cycle batteries, the type normally used in cell phone tower back up systems. I hope to get these soon.

---------------------

The Main Question that I have with this, is Exactly what other Components will be needed ?
I know that is a pretty broad question, and I am trying to read (and watch videos) and absorb as much as I can.

I know some about charge controllers, divert loads, and other things. Still unsure, especially with the MidNite systems, about how all of this connects. I'm usually pretty good with both DC and AC electrical systems, but this is a learning curve for sure.

Another question I now have is Can One Midnight Charge Controller be used to connect All 10 Solar Panels AND the Two Turbines?? Or will two separate controllers be required??

Any Help and Advice from those more Experienced is Greatly Appreciated!

[Vic]

Hi warren...,

Welcome here.

Two things right off the bat;

AIMS has worked very hard to establish a reputation of building CRAP,  in general.

See this Thread on the wind-sun Forum:
http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?23434-New-solar-setup-and-AIMS-inverters&highlight=aims+inverter

AND,  their 48 V inverters seem to be crap,  and overpriced,  too.

You should be able to do much better with Outback,  Magnum or,  perhaps even Schneider.   All three of these companies build very good to good quality products,  and may equal to or lower in price than the AIMS.

Do not know about the Missouri Wind -Solar folks,  BUT,  this PV module that you list is NOT a 24 V PV.  This may seem to be a small nit to pick,  and if it is the PV that I looked at last night (a link on another Forum),  there is no name listed for the manufacturer of that PV.  As long as you are not expecting to be able to charge a 24 V or 48 V battery with "strings" one or two of these,  they may be OK.   BUT  Solar resellers SHOULD know the difference between real 24 V PVs (which have a Vmp of about 35.4 - a bit over 36 V),  and GT 30 -ish Vmp PVs (which are about 20 V nominal PVs,  FWIW).

Have done business with the wind-sun company for PVs and many other items and they are honest and do a great job at filling orders quickly.  Here is their list of PVs in your range of interest:
http://www.solar-electric.com/hiposopa.html

Good that you are planning to study your LOADs for the off-grid (am assuming)   system that you are planning,  and that you hope to not start small and in a few months or a year,  have to start over,  or try to use hardware that does not fit the later needs.

Start with your loads, and plan the rest of the system around them.

Also,  generally small Wind turbines disappoint in the actual power they will deliver,   and fairly often it seems that there is a lot of maintenance or simply tossing out poorly designed hardware ...  I know nothing of the Missouri Wind folks or their products ...

Just a few quick thoughts.   Good luck,   and,  the wind-sun forum is a great resource when one is designing a new system,  IMHO.    Vic

[tecnodave]

Warren,

My thoughts are for you to a bunch of research before making any purchases,
I am in agreement with Vic about AIMS , I'm not impressed! They are not high quality!
For a thousand less you can have Outback, a much better unit.  Are you going to need an inspector to approve your system?  The AIMS units are not code legal as they do not have enclosed connections but have exposed connectors, this will never fly with the building department. Also check with your insurance provider, many will require complete NEC (National Electrical Code) compliance for their insurance to be valid.   #2 point, I would never buy up branded panels!

I have no experience with their wind generators so I will refrain from commenting there.

As to Charge Controllers, no the Classic cannot handle wind and solar at the same time. What I see that you will need there is one charge controller for all solar panels AND one Charge Controller AND Clipper for EACH wind generator. Trying to combine different sources into one controller is a disaster waiting to happen.

As to Missouri Wind and Solar's charge controller, you have it exactly right,  not what you need.
I'm my opinion there are only 4 companies that do charge controllers right, that would be MidNite, Outback, Morningstar, and Schnieder a.k.a. Xantrex/Trace. The others are not what you need for such a large system.

Peice of advice, read all you can, this forum and NAWS forum at :  forum.solar-electric.com/forum.php
Is a gold mine of information and knowledgeable persons in the industry.

I will also agree with Vic about Northern Arizona Wind and Sun, they are very knowledgable people and deliver on time and on price plus have excellent technical help. Never had a problem with them and they are my first go to for Solar stuff.

td

[zoneblue]

Yup. Slow the heck down mate. AIMs...  cancel the order right now. Dont buy anything else until you have done way more homework and have a plan that has been run by the NAWs forum for comment.

To do a successful DIY solar RE install you need exactly two things. A)  background/aptitude in electrical engineering. B) a bucket load of homework on RE specific technology. It took me about 2 weeks full time to learn about 80%% of what i needed, and that was on top of a prior quals. Then it took antoher year to get the next 15%.

Im not trying to put you off, but if you are in a hurry, reach for the yellowpages find an installer in your area and the money you pay, you will save in expensive mistakes. Like that inverter, yikes.

My write up below spells out some the process i went through.

BTW Wind: very hard to get right. Personally, id hold those plans til much later. 9/10 wind installs fail.

[dgd]

-------------------
#3 - 2000 watt Missouri Freedom II Wind Turbine Generator (PMG - not PMA) $797
Product Link: http://goo.gl/LRKv0O

These have 3 phase AC output. This Turbine can be wired for either 48 volt or 96 volt. It is basically 2(qty) 1kw generators built into one case/one shaft. Each generator is 48 volt. It can be purchased in lower voltages, such as 24/48 volt.

This being an 11 Blade Turbine will start turning in much lower wind speeds (3-4 mph) and will at least produce some power, even when wind is low. But when wind is high, it will still produce good power along with the 5 blade turbine together.

I am planning on purchasing two of these turbines, one with a 5 blade setup, and another with an 11 blade setup. Different blades for different wind speeds, the 11 will be to start up and run in lower winds, the 5 will be to start up in moderate winds, but will top out at higher RPM's.

I'm not going to bother posting their charge controllers and such, as I don't think they are a very good option.

Warren,

I will respond to this part of your posting as I have had experience over 2 years of using the wind turbines from MWandS.
First a couple of observations.
The 'not PMA' but PMG is just marketing hype. This generator IS AN ALTERNATOR.
The freedom name applies to the modified alternator that now has a nice looking alloy case with slight cooling fins AND using slanted or skewed stator cores.
Hopefully this change has gone some way to allieviate the severe 'cogging' that made some of their previous alternators almost impossible to turn by hand (and definitely needing the torque from 9, 11 or 13 of their ratptor blades to turn).
The raptor4 blades/hub make a 60inch swept area
There were many complaints about this but I have to admit I never had this issue with any of the five PMAs I bought from them.

This is still an alternator that requires at high rpm to get any useful power output.
Low wind startup because of many blades is true but at those low speeds power is negligible and almost completely non useable.

Using two of these turbines, as you suggest, one with 5 blades and one with 11 blades will NOT achieve any useful purpose. I experimented with these setups using 3, 5, 9 and 11 blade hubs and the differences in power output were almost insignificant. The most useful power I achieved in 22m/s benchmark wind speed was with the 3 blade hub. The multi-blade hubs were not able to rotate fast enough to be of much use.

I eventually used a three blade hub but this was using three aluminium 80 inch dia
blades. These were from an MWandS competitor who sell three blade and five blade hubs with these 80inch blades.
Now these blades made the alternator almost spin to destruction but the power output actually would approach a very useful 600 watts

The 2000watt claim is NOT by any means a measure of the power output that can be expected from a Missouri wind turbine. It is a figure that describes the potential maximum power that the alternator can output. To come anywhere near achieving this the alternator would have to be rigged to a power source (petrol/diesel engine) and geared to allow the alternator to spin several thousand rpm, 5 to 6 

dgd (more in next msg)

[dgd]

..continuing

MWandS used to advertise their alternators as 1600 watt and 2800 watt. The 2800 was the dual version and as you said just like two alternators on the same shaft allowing 12, 24 and 48v duals to be wired in series or parallel but ONLY after the rectifiers.
It now seems MWandS has modified their alternator power claims and say 2000watts for the dual type but its still 1600 watts for the single stator type.
No matter, still nowhere near these figures for real world power production.

All of my experience was with 24v single and 12+12 and 24+24 dual types.
Overall, I did think these were not that useful as part of an RE system. I did feel somewhat guilty on selling them to other people, I should have binned the lot.
At least the two dual alternators went to people who attached them to marine engines.

I would seriously suggest you look at what wind you have available, average speed and duration at your location and if you think wind power generation is a viable option then look at a non-alternator based wind turbine.

You are correct concerning the charge controllers. Basic on/off switching types but they do offer a PWM version, too expensive and old technology. Those 10,000 watt 440amp claims are meaningless when dealing with 200 to 500 watt output turbines.


dgd

[warreng5995]

OK... I'll address this first since it was in everyone's post:

I was already questioning my choice of the AIMS Inverter. And with what you all have posted here, and some comments on another forum I'm part of as well, I have canceled my AIMS inverter order.

One of the main reasons I found this particular AIMS interesting, is that if Needed it would allow a generator to be connected to it and charge the battery bank. But I would think there would be another way that a person could do this if it was needed.
I also need a split phase inverter, to be able to run 220v and 110v at the same time.

I have seen several people now who have recommend OutBack, so I am looking into that company and their inverters.

Yes, I admit, I want to get this system up soon. But I'm not in a hurry to the point that I want to make expensive mistakes, but I do need to be able to get a system up and running in a couple of months or so. 

Will it take a lot of reading and study, Yes. And I'm willing to do that, and have already been trying to find the RIGHT information since we have begun thinking about this some time ago, but especially for the last couple weeks now.

But I have quickly found that just because someone 'claims they know what they are talking about' doesn't mean they actually do.

The same goes for 'Professional' installers/dealers too. They are likely to just push what the products they make the most from, which goes for any industry.

So. Where does that leave me...

Well, I am starting back over with a clean slate, and can build the system from the ground up.

What do I need this system to be able to do?

Well... We have a small farm which we just moved to about 3 months ago. There is a lot of work to do here, but we are making headway. As far as power goes, the #1 Main Priority is our Well.

Now... Yes I understand that it is easiest to run a well using a generator. And Yes, I do have that capability.

BUT I want to be able to run the well from my Off-Grid Power System... at least MOST of the time.

The previous owner had this well drilled and pump installed last fall. So everything is basically brand new.
I have contacted the well company who installed it, and found out that the well was 450 feet deep (normal for this part of missouri) . The well Pump was positioned at 400 feet, and the static water level was 320 feet. Because the well is so deep, there is Very Limited options on how to be able to pump this water up, with out grid power. This is one of the reasons why I would just rather figure out a power system which can run the pump that is already installed.

They also told me that the Well Pump is a 220 volt 1.5 HP. He also told me that it would take at least an 8000 watt generator to safely run the pump with-out risking burning up the motor over time.

The Pump will connect to a 1000 gallon storage tank. The storage tank will have a small transfer pump to fill a large bladder tank to create pressure. So the main well pump will only run once every day or so (depending on how much water we need for everything) to fill the storage tank.

I have calculated, roughly, that the pump will take 1.5 to 2 hours to fill a 1000 gallon storage tank. However, it doesn't mean that it will run this long every time, as I will have a manual switch to begin filling the storage tank (with a float switch to shut the pump off when the tank is full). I will try to 'top the tank up' everyday when it is best for the power system, such as when the sun is strongest in the middle of the day. Which means the tank will only be partially empty, and may only need a couple hundred gallons. But there will be times when more water will be needed, or cloud cover for several days, and the tank will be nearly empty, and it will have to be filled. As I stated before, I will have a generator which can do this, but I don't want to have to use it unless I have to.

So having our Water Well working is Our Main Priority and this will also be the biggest load (at one time) on the power system.

Of course, we will also need to run other things as well. But we don't have the power loads that most people do. For example, we don't have central air, but we do have a small electric window A/C, which uses between 450-to-500 watts (kill-a-watt), but it is just a luxury.
We also do use electric heat. We have a wood burner which is a necessity, but are currently looking to upgrade to an affordable wood cook stove.
We do not have any tv's, dvd, vhs, etc. We don't have any desktop computers either, but we do have several laptops. All of our lights are just about already changed to cfl bulbs, but there's not that many as its a small house anyway.
The biggest load if I had to guess, is our current refrigerator. It was here when we moved in, and I have not yet ran my kill-o-watt on it to see.
We do have tools and such that use electricity, but those aren't an everyday thing. And somethings, like the welder and such, could be connected to a generator to use when they are needed, as it usually isn't often.

Now, with having said that. I'm sure we still use a good amount of power. But we'll reduce and make due when we have to. At the same time, I want to plan out our system to have as much power available as we can, so we can do thing we both need and at least some wants.

So I just want to set this system up right, and get it done in a reasonable amount of time.

That was just the update on canceling the AIMS and a basic rundown of what we need the system to do
.
Next I'll answer some the other points or questions you all brought up.

[warreng5995]

Hi warren...,

Welcome here.

Hello Vic! Thanks for the reply!

Two things right off the bat;

AIMS has worked very hard to establish a reputation of building CRAP,  in general.

See this Thread on the wind-sun Forum:
http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?23434-New-solar-setup-and-AIMS-inverters&highlight=aims+inverter

AND,  their 48 V inverters seem to be crap,  and overpriced,  too.

Advice Taken, Information Noted, and appropriate action taken as I explained in my previous post.

You should be able to do much better with Outback,  Magnum or,  perhaps even Schneider.   All three of these companies build very good to good quality products,  and may equal to or lower in price than the AIMS.

Also Noted, and I am currently looking into Outback and Magnum brands.

Do not know about the Missouri Wind -Solar folks,  BUT,  this PV module that you list is NOT a 24 V PV.  This may seem to be a small nit to pick,  and if it is the PV that I looked at last night (a link on another Forum),  there is no name listed for the manufacturer of that PV.  As long as you are not expecting to be able to charge a 24 V or 48 V battery with "strings" one or two of these,  they may be OK.   BUT  Solar resellers SHOULD know the difference between real 24 V PVs (which have a Vmp of about 35.4 - a bit over 36 V),  and GT 30 -ish Vmp PVs (which are about 20 V nominal PVs,  FWIW).

OK. So a PV panel, that is designed for Off-Grid use, should have a 35.4-to-36volts. This is the kind of info I need to know about. The people at the store said nothing about this, and actually only stated they were 24volt panels, and it was the only 200+ watt panels they carried at their store. I had to look it up on their website to find the exact specs.

Have done business with the wind-sun company for PVs and many other items and they are honest and do a great job at filling orders quickly.  Here is their list of PVs in your range of interest:
http://www.solar-electric.com/hiposopa.html

While searching/researching, I had come across this website before, but didn't know if it was a good company or just another out a million. Thanks for the recommendation. I have begun to look through page you linked, and Now I see the difference between the specs on some of these panels compared to the ones at MW&S.

Good that you are planning to study your LOADs for the off-grid (am assuming)   system that you are planning,  and that you hope to not start small and in a few months or a year,  have to start over,  or try to use hardware that does not fit the later needs.

Start with your loads, and plan the rest of the system around them.

Yep, for sure. The power system means nothing if it can't run the loads you have.

Also,  generally small Wind turbines disappoint in the actual power they will deliver,   and fairly often it seems that there is a lot of maintenance or simply tossing out poorly designed hardware ...  I know nothing of the Missouri Wind folks or their products ...

I've heard this often now.

Just a few quick thoughts.   Good luck,   and,  the wind-sun forum is a great resource when one is designing a new system,  IMHO.    Vic

Thanks for your Reply and Info!

[warreng5995]

Warren,

Hello Tecnodave! Thanks for your Reply!

My thoughts are for you to a bunch of research before making any purchases,
I am in agreement with Vic about AIMS , I'm not impressed! They are not high quality!
For a thousand less you can have Outback, a much better unit. 

Thanks for the Advice, your all's opinion of AIMS seems to be mostly unanimous in the Experienced alternative power crowd. Whats somewhat confusing is, outside of alternative energy, how many people have rated AIMS as having 'great products'. I don't know if its what they are using them for, because they aren't used much, or if its just that people don't know what they're talking about.

Are you going to need an inspector to approve your system?  The AIMS units are not code legal as they do not have enclosed connections but have exposed connectors, this will never fly with the building department. Also check with your insurance provider, many will require complete NEC (National Electrical Code) compliance for their insurance to be valid.

We live in Missouri, and outside of city limits, and especially if you own 20+ acres. There is basically no codes, permits, inspections, or anything else. They pretty much leave you alone.

The insurance issue is something I hadn't yet thought about, and is a good point.

But in either case, I don't want a system that could cause problems. Or even worse, if it becomes a hazard.

So, yes the quality of the equipment is important to me.

#2 point, I would never buy up branded panels!

Point Taken and Noted. I didn't like the fact that they didn't say who made the panels in the first place. They try to brand everything with their own name, which is fine to a point, but a person needs to know what they're getting.

I have no experience with their wind generators so I will refrain from commenting there.

Ok.

As to Charge Controllers, no the Classic cannot handle wind and solar at the same time. What I see that you will need there is one charge controller for all solar panels AND one Charge Controller AND Clipper for EACH wind generator. Trying to combine different sources into one controller is a disaster waiting to happen.

I was watching MidNite's videos about the Classic, and they told how to do the setting for solar, and in another video how to set it for a turbine and how to connect it to the clipper. But they never stated what one Classic could handle, or if it could deal with two power inputs at the same time. After which I was guessing that one Classic could only take one power source, but your clarification helped a lot!

As to Missouri Wind and Solar's charge controller, you have it exactly right,  not what you need.

Yep, thought so, and had already made up my mind on that.

I'm my opinion there are only 4 companies that do charge controllers right, that would be MidNite, Outback, Morningstar, and Schnieder a.k.a. Xantrex/Trace. The others are not what you need for such a large system.

I'm looking into MidNite right now, and I've glanced into Outback, as they seem to be the Two Top Picks.

Peice of advice, read all you can, this forum and NAWS forum at :  forum.solar-electric.com/forum.php
Is a gold mine of information and knowledgeable persons in the industry.

Thanks for the Link! And Yes I am already divulging through the site.

I will also agree with Vic about Northern Arizona Wind and Sun, they are very knowledgable people and deliver on time and on price plus have excellent technical help. Never had a problem with them and they are my first go to for Solar stuff.

td

Thanks For the Recommendation!

And Thanks for Your Advice and Reply!

[warreng5995]

Hello Zoneblue! Thanks for the reply!

Yup. Slow the heck down mate. AIMs...  cancel the order right now. Dont buy anything else until you have done way more homework and have a plan that has been run by the NAWs forum for comment.

Already Done, and yes... I know I jumped the gun on that one.
And Yes I am going to learn as much as I can about the right way to do things, and which is the 'Right' brands, as quickly as I am able.

To do a successful DIY solar RE install you need exactly two things. A)  background/aptitude in electrical engineering. B) a bucket load of homework on RE specific technology. It took me about 2 weeks full time to learn about 80%% of what i needed, and that was on top of a prior quals. Then it took antoher year to get the next 15%.

I don't have a year, but I have been trying and will learn what I need as quickly as I am able.
I am very 'electronically literate', and have worked in & am familiar with both DC and AC systems.
BUT Yes, Alternative Energy is a Learning Curve to say the least.
A large part of which is to know what products you need, and which brand to buy them from. However, depending on who you talk to, there is always 'fans' of even the worst products....

Im not trying to put you off, but if you are in a hurry, reach for the yellowpages find an installer in your area and the money you pay, you will save in expensive mistakes. Like that inverter, yikes.

I like to do things myself, as I don't trust someone else to do it right. So I would rather learn what I need to know, rather than to risk a 'local' installer or dealer who just wants to sell me something and make a bunch of $$$'s on labor and/or service calls.
PLUS if something happens, I want to know how to repair the system and get it back to working order, and not be reliant on someone else.

My write up below spells out some the process i went through.

I have already read through some of your info, and have saved your site in my favorites. I'll go through it all, Thanks for the Link, and for posting your experience!

BTW Wind: very hard to get right. Personally, id hold those plans til much later. 9/10 wind installs fail.

I have heard this a few times too, and I may have to re-think this part.

Thanks for your Advice and Information!

[warreng5995]

Warren,

Hello DGD! Thanks for your Reply!

I will respond to this part of your posting as I have had experience over 2 years of using the wind turbines from MWandS.

Awesome! I was hoping someone would reply who had experience with their Turbines!

First a couple of observations.
The 'not PMA' but PMG is just marketing hype. This generator IS AN ALTERNATOR.
The freedom name applies to the modified alternator that now has a nice looking alloy case with slight cooling fins AND using slanted or skewed stator cores.

OK. Well, this is interesting, and a disappointment.

Hopefully this change has gone some way to allieviate the severe 'cogging' that made some of their previous alternators almost impossible to turn by hand (and definitely needing the torque from 9, 11 or 13 of their ratptor blades to turn).
The raptor4 blades/hub make a 60inch swept area
There were many complaints about this but I have to admit I never had this issue with any of the five PMAs I bought from them.

According to one review I saw on youtube from someone who purchased their turbines (or claimed to have at least), the cogging was much improved, and the shaft could be easily turned by hand. 

This is still an alternator that requires at high rpm to get any useful power output.
Low wind startup because of many blades is true but at those low speeds power is negligible and almost completely non useable.

OK, so even if it is turning, it really isn't going to generate much.

Using two of these turbines, as you suggest, one with 5 blades and one with 11 blades will NOT achieve any useful purpose. I experimented with these setups using 3, 5, 9 and 11 blade hubs and the differences in power output were almost insignificant. The most useful power I achieved in 22m/s benchmark wind speed was with the 3 blade hub. The multi-blade hubs were not able to rotate fast enough to be of much use.

The 5 and 11 blade setup using TWO turbines, was their suggestion... I was only looking at one turbine in the beginning. This is really disappointing... More so in their 'advice' and 'service' rather than in the product itself.

I eventually used a three blade hub but this was using three aluminium 80 inch dia
blades. These were from an MWandS competitor who sell three blade and five blade hubs with these 80inch blades.
Now these blades made the alternator almost spin to destruction but the power output actually would approach a very useful 600 watts

Wow... Only 600 watts? Do you happen to know what wind speed it took to get that?

The 2000watt claim is NOT by any means a measure of the power output that can be expected from a Missouri wind turbine. It is a figure that describes the potential maximum power that the alternator can output. To come anywhere near achieving this the alternator would have to be rigged to a power source (petrol/diesel engine) and geared to allow the alternator to spin several thousand rpm, 5 to 6 

Well that is just ridiculous. I was hoping that a local dealer, when I actually drove to their store, would have been more honest. Just the day and time we live in.

dgd (more in next msg)
[/quote]

Ok, going to your next post.

[warreng5995]

..continuing

MWandS used to advertise their alternators as 1600 watt and 2800 watt. The 2800 was the dual version and as you said just like two alternators on the same shaft allowing 12, 24 and 48v duals to be wired in series or parallel but ONLY after the rectifiers.

Didn't know that either.

It now seems MWandS has modified their alternator power claims and say 2000watts for the dual type but its still 1600 watts for the single stator type.
No matter, still nowhere near these figures for real world power production.

OK... well I was hopeful, but I had read their power graph, which shows that a wind speed of 45mph is required for 2kw output. I was hoping for at least 800k to 1kw, which even that according to their graph would take 25-30mph. 

All of my experience was with 24v single and 12+12 and 24+24 dual types.
Overall, I did think these were not that useful as part of an RE system. I did feel somewhat guilty on selling them to other people, I should have binned the lot.
At least the two dual alternators went to people who attached them to marine engines.

I would seriously suggest you look at what wind you have available, average speed and duration at your location and if you think wind power generation is a viable option then look at a non-alternator based wind turbine.

I mostly just wanted to have another source of power, for when the sun wasn't out. We do have some decent steady wind here at times, and most of the time its when it is also cloudy and/or raining. So it would have been nice to at least had some power coming in during these times...

But, I have already been thinking about just going solar only as the more I looked at their power graph and figured it wouldn't actually even reach those outputs in real world, plus losses and such...
If I have enough amp hours in the bank, with conservation it may make it through until the PV's can recharge the battery bank without having to use a genset.

Out of curiosity, Do you have experience with any other brands? Do you know if there is a Good Small Turbine that isn't like $5k for a 1kw Turbine, as someone tried to push me to get on another forum?

You are correct concerning the charge controllers. Basic on/off switching types but they do offer a PWM version, too expensive and old technology. Those 10,000 watt 440amp claims are meaningless when dealing with 200 to 500 watt output turbines.

dgd

Well, DGD THANK YOU very much for your Experience with these Turbines!
It has helped me a lot, and may have saved me from making a big $$ mistake.

Much Appreciated for your Input!

[MGP]

Hi Warren On your Deep well Pump have a look at Lorentz, They have solar direct sub pumps 100mtrs head powered with 3 x 200w panels, 5000ltrs a day on this side of the world in summer , Takes the load off your AC system.
Can be battery based as well but flow rates drop off.

Mike

[warreng5995]

Hey All,

I was searching NAWS and found the Primus Wind Power Air 40 Turbine.

Has anyone used these? Any Thoughts?

Link: http://www.solar-electric.com/primus-wind-power-air-40-48-volt-generator.html

Thanks

[MGP]

They are a toy for a system of your size.. Used to be South west wind power , all the electronics are in the turbine <not such a good idea,
They used to do the H100 and H200 900w and 1000w these are OK if well installed , or matched with a clipper and classic
Stick to solar >>