Powered on for 1st time, no display

[bbbuddy]

Replaced our FM60 today with the new Classic 150.  It was almost dark by the time we were done replacing some wire with larger gauge wire and breakers to deal with a larger solar display, but before throwing the battery bank switch on my husband checked all connections and routing for 3rd time.

We had also cut the short remote display cable in half to splice in a 50 foot phone wire (8 twisted pairs) to remote the display, he checked continuity on that a couple of times with me.

So, powered on the battery switch(We still had the front off the CLassic 150) and saw several LEDS blinking on and off while the fan turned on, then about 5 seconds later fan turned off, no LEDS.  At the same time, a red LED and a yellow LED blinked on the remote, BUT no words ever appeared on the display.

We cut the breakers, rechecked all again, and we were getting the same voltage out at the blue battery pos and neg Classic "out" connections as our battery bank was reading.

OK, we turned breakers on again, same thing, fan on, blinking LEDS for about 5 seconds, then nothing.  With the cover off, should we be able to see ANY lights inside, or any indication that it was on?

Of course being about dark by then we didn't expect it to be working, but I expected the remote to turn on and be able to program it for the morning...now we can't tell whether the problem is in the remote or the controller....

What can we do in the am to figure it out?

Thanks much!

[boB]

Hi...
The 3 LEDs inside the Classic that should be seen through the cover air slots (if it is on the unit) should
flash back and forth while the power is coming on and while the fans are doing their self test.

Also, the 3 LEDs of the remote control/MNGP should flash also if plugged in correctly.  On this MNGP
Remote, (the LCD board with the buttons), the 2 bottom LEDs are  lit up by the main Classic unit
over the 6 conductor phone cable and the top red LED on the MNGP is driven by the MNGP processor
itself.   Normally, after the turn on light show, these LEDs will usually be "silent" unless told to do
something else by configuring the LED MODE from the MNGP...  Of course, if the MNGP isn't
running (no display or LCD) then that might be problematic...

Did the LCD work before you spliced the cable ?   It is fairly simple to do what you were trying
to do, but, maybe what happened was that the 50 feet of wire was too small for the MNGP
power to completely power the MNGP over that length of cable ??
I know that with the normal phone cable for the MNGP works to power it over 100 and I think
up to around 200 feet so I would think 50 feet should be easy.

Do you have another telephone cable handy to try powering the MNGP ?  Remember that
normally the MNGP remote plugs into the very top jack on the main Classic board.  If your
phone cable to try this only has 4 conductor wires, then those two bottom LEDs on the MNGP
will not light up because that is what those 2 extra wires are used for (the 2 outside phone
cable wires).  The MNGP LCD should light up though.   These cables reverse on one
end vs. the other end when plugged in.  But if you matched up the wire colors when
splicing in the longer cable, it should be good.

Did you say that you were getting the bottom 2 LEDs lighting up and flashing during power up
and fan test but just not the LCD part ??  If so, that would tell me that the ground
wire and the 2 outside wires of the 6 phone cable wires are correct.  Maybe just not the
+ power wire ?  There are also 2 communications wires in that 6 conductors.  Transmit
and Receive.

So, make sure it is the top jack you are plugging into on the Classic board to get power to the MNGP/LCD
and if you do not mind not having those 2 bottom LEDs operational, you should be able to plug the
MNGP into the middle jack of the 3 jacks on the Classic control board.

The bottom phone jack on the main Classic control board is reversed from the top two jacks
as well as not having any power available to power the MNGP.

Let us know if you find anything out.

boB

[bbbuddy]

Hi Bob, I didn't see a red LED blink on the MNGP, but it's possible I missed it while looking at the LEDs flashing in the Classic.  The LCD display never did anything.  We do have it plugged into the top jack, I'm sure of that because we powered it on before putting the cover on just to do the quick check and I could see it in the top jack, it was the last thing plugged in.

Like I said, we carefully did a continuity check of the 50 foot cable before plugging in, all the wires are same color at each end, in same order, and test as good.

Because we did not have the Classic hooked up before we made up the remote cable, I can't know if it - the MNGP- worked or not.  I never gave it a thought that 50 feet would be a problem since 100 feet is supposed to be ok, maybe tomorrow we can undo the connections and double up on the power wire.

Do I understand that the power on and fan self test lasts just a few seconds, and that with no incoming PV the Classic should have no indication that it is "on" after that, except from the MNGP?

Well that's the only wire we have around here for the remote, we have about 400 feet of it so we used it.  Solid wire, 8 twisted pairs (6 wires used), and seemed to be bigger than the wire in the short Classic cable...Probably should not have cut the short cable that came inside the Classic but it seemed a reasonable way to lengthen it without have to buy new jacks, new wire, and a special tool...

Well I suppose the Classic will recognize the 24 volt battery bank and run ok with your factory settings without any input from us until we can get to a Radio Shack?  (We are very remote)

Thanks for your input!

[bbbuddy]

Well, this a.m. I can add 2 things...the Classic IS outputting power, and I know more about the cable we used to make a 50 foot remote.

It is a 24 gauge CAT 3 LAN cable.  It still has continuity across all 6 wires, tested at the jacks, and the ohms on each wire are 1.6...does this info help?  Does it indicate we need to double up the power wire?

thanks!

ok, we plugged in the end that was originally in the top jack, then tested the power and ground wire at the other end of the 50 foot cable, we got 9.8 volts...still nothing from the MNGP...

[boB]

>>Do I understand that the power on and fan self test lasts just a few seconds, and that with no incoming PV the Classic should have no indication that it is "on" after that, except from the MNGP?>>

Yes and yes.    Fan tests for just a few seconds and no indication by default.

Without user verification of battery voltage on the MNGP, the Classic, I think, should start operating at 12V battery without
the MNGP connected or running.

The 9.8V you measured would be correct on that one end.   What you will normally see with too small of wire is
not a quite dead MNGP, but you would see some flashing of the LCD backlight when the MNGP tried to start up.

I have a feeling that the 6 wires are reversed somehow but I also trust that you tried to get those wires
re-connected correctly and not backwards.  As a technical type, that would be my first thing to check
after cable surgery.

Try another telephone cable.   Any cable.  Can't be any worse than what you have.
What we can do is to send you another phone cable.  Please E-mail Walter AT midnitesolar.com
and tell him that boB said to give you one.  Any length should be fine.  Short or 3 foot.

I have a feeling you are going to figure this out before you get that cable though....  UNLESS there is
actually something wrong with the MNGP which would be quite rare but of course possible.

boB

[bbbuddy]

Hi Bob, well the controller is working fine, and figured out all by itself to run at 24 volts without any user input, I know this because my Trimetric is happy and reading out 26.3 volts with 500 watts pv incoming.  So the Classic, he is one smart fella.

------->We did find a 4 wire phone cable about 6 feet long, still wrapped up and tied, never been used.  Don't know why we had it as we only have cell phones here...anyway we plugged it into the Classic and MNGP and still got nothing.  Tried it on the middle jack too, still...nothing. <-----------

The only thing we ever did with the MNGP after carefully talking it off the front of the Classic is to hook up the little speaker wire that was not connected inside...then snap the front back on over the buttons.

Ok, one other thing when I took the paper out from under the battery it came out too, but I reinstalled it + up, as the battery holder is marked + on top....could this be a problem?  I didn't think of the battery before because I thought it was only for holding presets when the  Classic is otherwise off.

[bbbuddy]

BUMP

I unwrapped the connections to verify that they are all hooked up correctly.  Since we are getting the correct 9.8 volts at the end of each line when plugged in, would this not indicate a problem with either the MNGP or the plug outlet on the Classic?

Especially when it also did not work on a 6 foot store bought phone cord?

[boB]

It occurs to me that your Classic is most likely set for a 48 volt battery as that is the last condition it was tested at at the factory.

First turn on is supposed to bring up the MNGP Quick Start setup for voltage and mode and will turn off the Classic at first.

Do you have an internal network there at your place ?  If so, you could hook up our "Local Application" to get the
unit set up for 24V battery nominal.

I also occurs to me that some phone cables are backwards from what we think they might be.

Email ryan AT midnitesolar.com so we can get you either a new cable (first thing maybe to try ??)  or to get you and RMA to get your MNGP replaced

Thanks,
boB

[bbbuddy]

Hi boB,
while you were posting I finally reached tech support by phone, and Mike had me take a look-see at the insides of the MNGP.  He said the LCD screen was never soldered up at the factory, so he's shipping out a new one tomorrow.  There is no solder showing through where it should for the LCD screen, so no matter what we did we weren't going to get a display. 

For some mysterious reason our Classic did power itself up and start charging at 24 volts. Mike said it should not have been able to do so, I guess we got lucky.
We reached full charge yesterday, and it's has worked fine today, according to my Trimetric, which right now is showing a voltage of 28.4....and the batteries are full.

I just can't "talk" to it.

[Halfcrazy]

Be very careful. The final test is done at 48 volt battery. With no MNGP on first power up the Classic will still think it is in test mode and will try to charge to 57 or 58 volts. There is no way unless you entered into the Local App that the Classic would reprogram for 24 volts.

Ryan

[boB]

Oh NO !!   I'm really sorry about that, bbbuddy !

Well. we'll get you straightened out easily enough at least.   Good going on looking inside of that
MNGP Remote !

I'm also glad you got a hold of Mike.  He's good !!

Please watch that battery voltage on your Trimetric though to make sure it doesn't go
above 30 volts or so because if it does, that most likely means it is on its way up to 50 some
volts and you don't want that !

Thanks for being so patient and I am sorry this had to happen at all.

I guess your cable is probably OK after all !

boB

[stephendv]

I just installed my classic today and at first also got a blank MNGP screen... until I connected the speaker cable.  Without the speaker connected the screen stays blank.
All working just fine now 

[bbbuddy]

Be very careful. The final test is done at 48 volt battery. With no MNGP on first power up the Classic will still think it is in test mode and will try to charge to 57 or 58 volts. There is no way unless you entered into the Local App that the Classic would reprogram for 24 volts.

Ryan

  Well, I don't know about "no way" Ryan.... because that sucker charged my batteries just fine two days in a row now, got up to 28.something in absorb and then dropped to 27.something for float(I don't remember exactly) just like the 24 volt factory defaults would, so maybe with no working LCD screen it also wasn't tested at 48 volts?  How does it get tested without a screen readout?

I watched the Trimetric on and off Sunday and Monday, without being able to program it the Classic charging was lower than the profile I would have set for my batteries...and never tried to go higher. 

I can see the battery voltage from the Trimetric, but it's corroborated by the Magnum ME-ARC so there's not much chance of error here.

Maybe I got one that had been sent back and reconditioned and was left set for 24 volts?  I don't know, whatever happened guess we got "lucky".

We bought it from NAWS.

[bbbuddy]

Be very careful. The final test is done at 48 volt battery. With no MNGP on first power up the Classic will still think it is in test mode and will try to charge to 57 or 58 volts. There is no way unless you entered into the Local App that the Classic would reprogram for 24 volts.

Ryan

Ryan, I downloaded the app onto my laptop, can I just go out and hook it up to the USB port and then see the same stuff I would on the LCD and do the all the same input and changes, right from the computer? 
Here I thought it was just monitoring software, not actual control software...


ok, I plugged in my laptop, but the software doesn't "see" the Classic.  the auto-detect is checked under application.  All I've got is a blank black screen instead of a "status panel" bar....I know we had the USB plugged in when we put the cover on...

Uninstalled the software.  reinstalled it. Still just a blank screen with the word configuration.  Click on it, see that the auto-detect IS checked.  Nothing...it isn't seeing my classic.

Took the cover off the Classic to be sure the USB is still hooked up, yes the little red LED is on.  Unplugged it, light went out, plugged it back in red LED on.  Put cover back on Classic. Still nothing on the software.

ok nevermind, I see where it says it is unlikely to work plugged directly into the USB, I have to be able to configure it through the MNGP...

[Mario]

bbbuddy, you have to connect the Classic to the Computer via Ethernet.
So connect an Ethernet cable from the Classic Ethernet Jack to the Internet Router.
then run the local app on your computer and the app will automatically detect the classic connected to your network.
This will give you access to the Classic. Control, Monitor etc.

USB is only to update the firmware on the unit.

Mario