classic150 questions

[jtdiesel65]

Hi,

I just replaced two fm/mx 60's with two classic 150's.

Is there any screen that shows pv input amps? I have two identical arrays, but one seems to be lagging on output amps.  I don't have these connected as master/slave yet.

Also

If I go to the tweaks menu, the voltages flash back and forth between expected to other values. The strange thing is on one, the bat-V flashes from expected to 0 and the pv-V from expected to something like 779. However, on the other classic the opposite happens: the bat-v flashes to 779 and the pv-v flashes to 0. I checked the wiring and things seem to be wired correctly. Is this normal?


oh, and with regard to the wizard and panel ratings. Should these values be the values that represent the array or just one module? My modules are in strings of two.

[Halfcrazy]

If you push the status button you will notice it will scroll through a few screens the one that comes up after the main status screen will have input current on it.

The toggle of the voltages in the tweaks is normal as it is reading once a second from the Classic and in between those reads there is no data available.

In the wizard the specs for the panels would be per panel.

Ryan

[jtdiesel65]

ok, thanks.

What should one expect when connecting master/slave for two classics? I ran a cable, but didn't see anything on the display to indicate there was any connection or information sharing. 

[boB]

ok, thanks.

What should one expect when connecting master/slave for two classics? I ran a cable, but didn't see anything on the display to indicate there was any connection or information sharing.

We still have some work to do as far as making multiple Classics cooperate with each other.
This is one of our  priorities.

Right now though, you connect  the "main" or Master Classic's "slave" jack (middle jack) to the slave unit's "Master" (bottom) jack.

Then, there are 4 jumpers right behind the battery/PV terminal block.  The two pin jumper on the left (labelled extra) should be
installed on the "slave" unit.  That jumper changes that one Classic's modbus address from 10 (the default) to 11.

So, on the Master Classic's MNGP remote display, if you hold down the left arrow key and tap the UP arrow key so that
it shows "CLASSIC2", which presently means modbus address 11, so you should be able to look at and adjust
both Classics with one MNGP.

Since both Classics are most likely right next to each other, this is probably not going to do much for you though.

We should have some multi-unit connectivity and synchronization coming up in a software upgrade release in
a month or two (we hope it's that soon)

boB

[jtdiesel65]

thanks.

yeah, I don't really need them connected for so I can use a single MNGP display.  I'll eagerly await the update.

In my previous system, I had a mx60 and a fm60. What seems to always happen was that one of the charge controllers would not output as much as the other. My guess was that one charge controller came online and altered the bat voltage and then the second one came online and the altered voltage changed how it behaved.  Typically if I restarted the one with the lower output,  it would then match the other cc.

I saw what appears to be the same behavior with the classics with one of them lagging output amps. I rebooted both and then the one lagging matched the other. So I was thinking that the master/slave connection would allow them to sync data and this situation would not occur.


thx

[boB]

When you see unbalanced output from the controllers, are they in the Absorb or Float charge stage ??

If so, that's not a big deal as the battery voltage is where it needs to be.  If the battery voltage is
below the Absorb or Float set point, that's when they both really need to be putting out all
that they can.  Of course, the Classic that is putting out more current will have more of a
voltage drop across its battery wires and its output voltage reading will be slightly
higher than what the battery voltage is.  So in that case, the Classic that is NOT putting out
as much current should see a lower voltage on its battery terminals (more like the real battery
voltage), and should be trying more to put out current to bring the battery voltage up.
Or, at least the battery voltage it thinks it sees at its terminals.  With big enough battery
wires, there should be very little voltage drop though.  Maybe a 1/10th or 2/10ths of a
volt maximum.

If one Classic is seeing a tenth or 2 difference from the other Classic, then the offset
tweak should help that a bit.

boB

[jtdiesel65]

Hi,

It is in bulk.

I changed tweaks on one. It was off by .2 compared to the other cc and the inverter. I'll keep an eye on it to see if I still see this.

As I recall, the first controller would be something like 70v, 10a out and the second controller would be ~65v, 7a out.  Restart the controllers and both end up ~70,10a out. 

On the outbacks, there were times where I would see ~40a on one cc, but the other would be ~30a. Do a restart and both would go to 40.  It seemed to be the case where the first cc to wake up had the higher output. The second one to wakeup had lower.

[boB]

Hi,

It is in bulk.

I changed tweaks on one. It was off by .2 compared to the other cc and the inverter. I'll keep an eye on it to see if I still see this.

As I recall, the first controller would be something like 70v, 10a out and the second controller would be ~65v, 7a out.  Restart the controllers and both end up ~70,10a out. 

On the outbacks, there were times where I would see ~40a on one cc, but the other would be ~30a. Do a restart and both would go to 40.  It seemed to be the case where the first cc to wake up had the higher output. The second one to wakeup had lower.

OK, so it looked like the CC with 65 volts on its input should have been 70 V on its input ??

That tells me that it needed to sweep again.  Next time this happens, try initiating another sweep on the Classic with too low of input voltage by pressing the ENTER button while on the main status screen.  See if that helps.

boB


boB

[littlebird]

A few tech questions. CL150
  1-a: I read above about a need to initiate a "re-sweep". Does the classic constantly track all day, or tend to park?
     1-b: who is the cc mfg that all the others claim "stops to re-sweep", except the few moments, why would that be so bad?
 
  2: If one had 12x~30vmp 225w panels wired @ 4grps of 3xseries strings (nom90v) to a 24v bank would i be interpreting this correct.. from chart? looks like i can really get max out of this unit for 24v  .. 2700w 94 amps 

  3: if i upgraded to 230w panels with = vmp above, thus had a minor surplus. would the classic "clamp" the current, with no worries, or do i need to stay within some margin under the current/power max rating (i understand the maxPV/VOC is the "dont push it" even with hyper.) Of course on overcast days, i wish i had alot more sq.ft. of harvest area.

  4:  i saw in another thread, you invited folk to "hack the battery meter".  Id love "in" on this type of stuff.. I think this one of the biggest "pluses" of your hardware, besides the 2000 other ones. altho you guys are doing absolutely killer stuff    if one wanted to develop some complimentary "free ware" monitoring software/arduino micro-controller data logger stuff (i want key solar data compiled with other local environmental data), do you suppose you would embrace it, or would you prefer i keep it to myself?

  5: Do you have any idea how refreshing a product like yours looks, in the market of secret magic energy stuff?

[Robin]

We would embrace you efforts. This stuff isn't easy, so we are happy to work with you in your efforts to make a better data logger.
Robin

[niel]

i think i'll add here that one should not be designing for the top end max of the classic, or any other controller for that matter. it would put undue strain on the controller and would waste power that had been clamped and would not be passed along to the loads or batteries. in a scenario as you describe, it is better to either opt for a higher battery voltage or have more than one classic.

[boB]

A few tech questions. CL150
  1-a: I read above about a need to initiate a "re-sweep". Does the classic constantly track all day, or tend to park?
     1-b: who is the cc mfg that all the others claim "stops to re-sweep", except the few moments, why would that be so bad?

  5: Do you have any idea how refreshing a product like yours looks, in the market of secret magic energy stuff?

SHHHhhhhh !!  Don't tell them about our secret magic infinite energy perpetual motion units !!

On the re-sweeping, the Classic will do this on its own, unless you have it in some kind of mode that keeps
it from doing this, but Solar will usually do that.   I was just letting you know that you can force it to sweep
by pressing the ENTER button from the main status menu.

BTW, Hack away,  and it's OK if you mention things here if you like.  We're not too shy (and  not trying to hide anything) !!

boB

[littlebird]

Very Good then 
Thank you Robin, boB, niel
I think at this point, i have no other choice but to support you as well

I actually only have 6 of 12 225's "out" right now, because we are building an new home where i plan to be solar "crazy"(2 years out). I have on the way, 32 more PV units, because they are so darn cheap right now, and a classic150 to wet my whistle. I think im going to need 6 cc's, and an electric car, and a DC water heater by the time its all said.

Ok, I used the wizard simulator, and input my current "max" system w/12x 225's (4 sets of 3ser @ ~90vmp). seems to be no problem? would that max be bad? Should i still stay back ~25%? maybe ill put 9 of 12 out, and keep 3 for "just in case".  Could a guy not put it all out, and then set the CC to limit at say 60-70-80a, this way, during less sunny days, i have more SqFt of lower power avail. I have no problem buying another classic, but, really, 9 panels would be a good match to my batteries right now anyway. I, of course, only want to stay in safe, practical, limits, so please advise. I appreciate niel reminding me to be safe, not sorry    It would seem with that much horsey available, the cc can wake up early, and have a good handle on the charge by mid day.

make a better data logger

?? Its complimentary data logger, my dear robin Perhaps "value added" participation, since im too far away to come sweep the floors at the lab ? Just thinking a low power, read only, lots of per/minute samples with batt temp, ambi temp, diffused brightness, anti-tamper, failure monitor, alarm, consumption monitoring shunts, with some extra analog input ports, to regular .csv format, on an SDcard. And some type of graph/charting/display app for pc. Perhaps, maybe after sometime, the classic can actually poll data back from the SD and display it thru your own software/web? who knows?  Public, how to do it yourself kinda thing after its tested and proved itsself reliable. Im VB literate, little bit of web, lotsa SQL database & queries, and just starting in that "compact C?" for the arduino. Alot of the arduino source is already out there, and just needs to be taylored to the pins, and achitecture that would fulfill the need. Ive already DL'd the Modbus classes for the Arduino....

oh, hey, boB
   If you ever happen across a toasted classic, that has an intact comm and brain, I sure would like to mess with a "low risk" box, rather than my new baby? Just a thought?  Im a few weeks away from my transition into arduino, and my Classic.

Totally looking forward to it,
Thanks for the many insights & comforts

[littlebird]

Sorry, that seems a little forward   maybe better worded as, I would love to rent a "not completely functioning" unit if one could ever be availed, for a limited term of a few weeks, to maybe a month or two, just long enough to gain some confidence in modbus comm's. I'm sure you understand my reluctance to plug into, and send data register requests to my main unit. My arduino mega came today, and ill get to messing with it over some evenings, and begin to structure my program, as i become familiar with the layout, code, and commands. All the best to you     

[boB]

Littlebird, we'll see what we can dig up.  Maybe you could make a modbus for arduino renewable energy project that others could also use to connect to modbus enabled controllers and such like ours and /or morningstars.

boB