Hello to the community,
A bit worried about my Classic 200 fans always running. I use to have a 150 before and the fans were not running always). Any ideas why? And can this become an issue? 140/155V is entering the classic on a normal day. Maybe that is why BUT I am still under the Classic 200 VDC
THe ambient temp is around 30 Celsius.
I could rewired the PV to 2s4p (instead of 4s2p) and run more cable to the CC but will I be able to EQ properly? I have attached the panel spec.
Thanks
Hi dapdan,
Assume that the PV input voltage when you were using the Classic 150 was lower than with the 4S PV on the Classic 200.
The fans on my 150s seem to run when the PCB or FET temperatures are above about 50 degrees C.
30 C is warm, but not really hot. Warm, to hot ambient temps will cause the Classic to get warm, and the internal fans to run.
Also, seems that the latest Classic Firmware on the 150s here have the fans run internal fans to run a bit more often (this is not scientific).
You are correct, that 2S of those PVs with a 37.0 Vmp would generally not be a good match for a 48 V system, especially if the batteries are Flooded types.
FWIW, Vic
Vic. Yes flooded.
I understand that the perpetual fans running is due to the high voltaje (140/155V) the CC gets from the PV and maybe the ambient temp.
So I have to accept that the classic will ALWAYS runs the fans all day?
The other solution could be to add 1 panel and wire the PV 3S3P? Would that works well with my paneles and a 48V system?
Is it possible to cool the CC with an external fan?
My Classics make that NICE sound when working !!
You look warm , I'm 49th cold lat & a warm day is 20c & they are on when they work in the summer .
Mount the Classic ' S on a heat sink ( I have mounted mine on one ) .
Kinda normal !
VT
Dapago,
If you have a ninth panel, I would run 3s3p. The voltage would be high enough to do all the work(including EQ), and low enough to allow the classic to work less to capture that power. I would bet the fan will still run during the summer, but I bet it will run less. And you will most likely capture more power.
Of course I am no expert, so your milage may vary.
Yes, it is possible to cool w/ external fan(s)
For any AC fans, I would only recommed a 'PSC' motor and steer away from any power hog ' shaded pole' motor...watt/watt PSC is double the CFMs over shaded pole and last wayyy longer...so are truely wayyy cheaper to run in the long term.
Choosing DC fan is more about mfgr reputation...
Quote from: dapago on October 21, 2017, 09:06:43 PM
Vic. Yes flooded.
I understand that the perpetual fans running is due to the high voltaje (140/155V) the CC gets from the PV and maybe the ambient temp.
So I have to accept that the classic will ALWAYS runs the fans all day?
The other solution could be to add 1 panel and wire the PV 3S3P? Would that works well with my paneles and a 48V system?
Is it possible to cool the CC with an external fan?
Hi dapdan,
Yes high-ish PV input voltage creates more heating in the CC than would lower Vin. More heating means that the fans will need to run more, as will warm-ish ambient temperatures.
And, yes, 3S strings are about the best that one can do for your moderate Winter temperatures, with those PVs on a 48 V Flooded battery system. Of course, there would be a bit of additional voltage drop when going to three strings of three PVs in series, and ideally you would want to have a Combiner with one breaker per string when going with 3S3P. You might already have a Combiner in the system.
The main residence system here has run strings of three PVs (106 V String Vmp) with a Classic 150 for almost seven years. The power room has priority A/C with average Summer ambient temps In that room of about 70 F (when the PVs are producing). The fans on that/those Cl 150s run fairly often, but still seem to be working fine (although there is a bit of a buzziness in the fan sound).
The Classics are a tough CC, and the fans seem to be high quality, and up to the task, IMO.
The Classic 200, and 250 CC do sacrifice a little bit of efficiency compared to the 150, so, even with identical Vin and ambient temps, they will experience a bit more internal heating, and therefore somewhat more fan run-time.
FWIW, Vic
Quote from: CDN-VT on October 22, 2017, 01:58:29 AM
My Classics make that NICE sound when working !!
You look warm , I'm 49th cold lat & a warm day is 20c & they are on when they work in the summer .
Mount the Classic ' S on a heat sink ( I have mounted mine on one ) .
Kinda normal !
VT
Sorry for my poor knowledge but What is a heat sink?
Quote from: bee88man on October 22, 2017, 10:31:06 AM
Yes, it is possible to cool w/ external fan(s)
For any AC fans, I would only recommed a 'PSC' motor and steer away from any power hog ' shaded pole' motor...watt/watt PSC is double the CFMs over shaded pole and last wayyy longer...so are truely wayyy cheaper to run in the long term.
Choosing DC fan is more about mfgr reputation...
Well maybe a bit complicated to find those fans in the country where I am living (Nicaragua). I would have to import them from the states.
Vic,
I have A MNDC125 connecting box. Is it what you call à Combiner?
Regarding the 3S3P config, that would be the best. Just have to add 1 panel but I do not have the space for it :-( . See pic
I was hoping for an other alternative but it seems that there is not.
Quote from: Highflyer on October 22, 2017, 10:22:30 AM
Dapago,
If you have a ninth panel, I would run 3s3p. The voltage would be high enough to do all the work(including EQ), and low enough to allow the classic to work less to capture that power. I would bet the fan will still run during the summer, but I bet it will run less. And you will most likely capture more power.
Of course I am no expert, so your milage may vary.
Well here temp never drops below 26 Celsius. Appart from that I do not have a ninth panel and I have no more room to install an other one. I suppose I will have to accept the cc fans are running ALL YEAR LONG and hope that they do not fail .... or cool the cc an other way (no AC solution is possible)
Quote from: dapago on October 22, 2017, 06:07:31 PM
Quote from: CDN-VT on October 22, 2017, 01:58:29 AM
My Classics make that NICE sound when working !!
You look warm , I'm 49th cold lat & a warm day is 20c & they are on when they work in the summer .
Mount the Classic ' S on a heat sink ( I have mounted mine on one ) .
Kinda normal !
VT
Sorry for my poor knowledge but What is a heat sink?
No Poor Knowledge , But a good question !!
https://www.google.com/search?q=heat+sink&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiCieaF1oXXAhUB32MKHYKtD3cQ_AUICygC&biw=1280&bih=654
So Mine is flat on the back side of the CC & finned on the back side(of the CC) extracting extra heat into it & I blow the air down & back with one small fan of 4 wire speed controlled.
VT
Quote from: CDN-VT on October 22, 2017, 10:21:17 PM
Quote from: dapago on October 22, 2017, 06:07:31 PM
Quote from: CDN-VT on October 22, 2017, 01:58:29 AM
My Classics make that NICE sound when working !!
You look warm , I'm 49th cold lat & a warm day is 20c & they are on when they work in the summer .
Mount the Classic ' S on a heat sink ( I have mounted mine on one ) .
Kinda normal !
VT
Sorry for my poor knowledge but What is a heat sink?
No Poor Knowledge , But a good question !!
https://www.google.com/search?q=heat+sink&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiCieaF1oXXAhUB32MKHYKtD3cQ_AUICygC&biw=1280&bih=654
So Mine is flat on the back side of the CC & finned on the back side(of the CC) extracting extra heat into it & I blow the air down & back with one small fan of 4 wire speed controlled.
VT
Oh yes did not know it was called a heatsink. Could have looked on google before to ask :o.
If you have time, could you take a pic of your cooling method and post it? :D ;D
Sorry to bother you but how can it be “flat on the back side of the CC & finned on the back side(of the CC)â€. Did you mean flat on the back side of the cc & finned on the support (walls, wood panel or wherever your cc is mounted on)?
What kind of fan do you use? How do you power it?
Thanks
Hi dapago ..
YES, looks like you planned on 4S2P, and that will work with the Classic 200. If there is no room for a ninth PV, and you do not have that additional PV, then just run what you have in 4S2P.
Many times our systems are not ideal, but we need to do what we can and works out anyway.
External fans on Classics and other CCs can help cooling quite a lot, and worth a try.
Good Luck with the new system. Vic
Quote from: Vic on October 23, 2017, 04:01:56 PM
Hi dapago ..
YES, looks like you planned on 4S2P, and that will work with the Classic 200. If there is no room for a ninth PV, and you do not have that additional PV, then just run what you have in 4S2P.
Many times our systems are not ideal, but we need to do what we can and works out anyway.
External fans on Classics and other CCs can help cooling quite a lot, and worth a try.
Good Luck with the new system. Vic
Thanks Vic. As always, your comments are highly appreciated. Nevertheless there is a special and personal gratification to get the most balanced and “perfect†install. No matter its size.
I suppose this need to “do the best†is part of the humans instincts that make us always want to discover and evolve.
Sorry to bother you but how can it be “flat on the back side of the CC & finned on the back side(of the CC)â€. Did you mean flat on the back side of the cc & finned on the support (walls, wood panel or wherever your cc is mounted on)?
What kind of fan do you use? How do you power it?
You Are correct ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I power the fan with a 48Vdc to 12Vdc unit for golf carts & use that 12Vdc to power the relays & fans . The fan is controlled by a temp sensor that controls the speed of the one fan of four wire that the controller likes.
As for the pictures , Im installing it now after I had built all of this last year , Sink is in But the fans & piping are to be added after all the electrical . I can't have any damage .
I posted picks on new installs
VT
Higher input voltages will result is slightly more losses in the power stage. That coupled with the fact that the Classic is very small relative to its output power result in fans running more often than we like. There is no problem replacing fans if they fail. Tech support is very generous with that kind of request.
Wait until you see the heatsinks we are designing into the next controllers and inverters. They are monsters. When we originally designed the Classic case, it was to be a 45 amp device. The thermal tricks we incorporated worked so well, it became what it is today. You will notice the custom blue terminal block. That replaced the original design that was for only 65 amps. A 65 amp terminal block is the largest standard terminal block that will fit into the Classic. We already had 1000 castings when we discovered that the Classic was far more powerful than what a 65 amp terminal block would allow. We won't get fooled on the next stuff.
The good thing is that the Classic is designed to operate just fine in high ambient conditions. The fans are just annoying.
The next units will also have fans, but you probably won't be able to hear them. They also won't turn on nearly as much.