Hi all, question re my new Classic 150 installed about a wk ago. All appeared to be working awesome. This evening was the first time I happened to be beside it at dusk, and noticed it was cycling on a 2 second time schedule. For 2 seconds the relay would be pulled in and the display would show MPPT. Then the relay would drop out for 2 seconds and the display show Resting. This repeated continuously. Cut all power to the Classic, giving it time to reset, then powered it up again. After completing it's startup, it was back to the constant 2 second cycling. I figured it had something to do with the low light level, so shut it down and left it off until after dark, then powered it up again and all is fine. It was working fine during daylight today whenever I checked it. Will check during daylight again tomorrow, calling for full sun.
Anyone have any ideas? Have I missed some adjustment? Surely it wouldn't be designed to work that way.
Thanks a lot.
Wayne
Hi Wayne, I bet you don't want to hear this ( I had a similar issue).... to solve it, you will need to tell us all the settings that can kick in at sundown. I can't remember just what stopped it but I fiddled with the settings a bit and got it to stop. Probably was the setting for turning on when the sun comes up /restart?... ie you don't want it to turn on as soon as possible, but a bit later.
cheers...
Thanks Westbranch. All settings except Absorb, Float and EQ voltages I left as set from the factory. I suspect you are right re settings for sunup voltage etc. Will have to check into that when I get a chance.
In the meantime I did find the following from the TROUBLESHOOTING GUIDE in the manual:
*This can be normal during low light conditions.
*Watch the IN voltage and see if it is setting stable and does not change when the Classic goes from Resting to Bulk MPPT if so call customer service
*Watch the IN voltage and see if it slowly drops to battery voltage (Or Close) when the Classic goes to Bulk MPPT, if so this is usually a sign of a High resistance connection (Loose Connection between the Classic and DC source)
Hi guys,
Wayne, your classic should not show 0V when resting, mine is 13.6V at rest (night) for a 106V array Vmp.
If your PV IN wiring is correct, I'd try a VMM, it could not hurt.
(If you experience any unusual behavior please try a "Quick Start" by first turning the battery and solar power to the Classic off. Next, turn the battery power back on while holding the Left and Right arrows. Hold the arrows until the first "Solar, Wind or Hydro" screen pops up. Follow the on screen prompts and continue setup. Note: This will reset all settings to factory defaults. You will need to reset any custom settings such as Aux 1 and 2. You may want to write these settings down for reference prior to resetting the Classic.)
Erik
Hi Eric, thanks for your reply.
Just went out and checked (dark @10 PM) and with battery voltage resting at 12.7, the batt voltage display of the Classic is also showing 12.7, The PV "IN" voltage is showing (36vmp array in the dark) 0.6 volts. If I kill the PV breaker, the "IN" voltage very slowly rises to 6 volts, where it settles. Switching the PV breaker back on causes the "IN" voltage display to very slowly drop to 0.6 again.
In daylight the controller appears to be operating perfectly, and at night it goes to "Resting" and stays there. The only problem appears to be at dusk, when the relay constantly cycles on and off until it gets darker. It may be doing the same thing at dawn, that time between daylight and dark, but I haven't been out there observing it at that time.
set your clock... ::)
Clock was set on initial set up, as was Absorb, Float and EQ voltages. But nothing else has yet been changed from factory settings.
Will check the time settings tomorrow to make sure the settings held.
sorry ... that is the bedside clock :o
Bedside clock? Hahahahahaha ;D
try this thread...http://midniteforum.com/index.php?topic=1577.msg13507#msg13507
talks about IN Voltage levels after dark.
lucked out on a search
Good catch Westbranch and makes sense.
"You will usually see around half to 3/4 of the actual battery voltage on the input. Ryan"
And that's roughly where mine is (1/2 battery voltage) when it's not being drained off by PV leakage. So that appears OK.
Tomorrow I hope to have time to investigate if there might be some adjustments for input voltage levels that would trigger the controller out of Resting. Such settings may or may not stop the relay cycling.
Interesting that the MX-60 had a setting for time delay between attempts to come out of sleep. I had mine set for 10 minutes and it worked great that way.
That delay was what I used too. the MX CC was a great wake up call in the early summer days.
tick, tack....tick, tack... New place, everything is in the basement at the other end of the building..
Wayne, during sunset, when you hear the Classic clicking away as you described, please
check the "Reason For Resting" (RFR) for a clue. From the main status menu, hold
down the LEFT-arrow key and while it is held down, tap the ENTER key.
You will be presented with a "secret" menu with a bunch of meaningless
numbers on it. The number we want is the top-center number.
Is it 5, or 9, 1, or ... ?
Thanks,
boB
AWESOME Bob! Thanks a lot man, I'll definitely be trying that! :)
OK boB, was out early this morning checking things out as the sky began to brighten.
Sure enough, there came a point where the 2 second cycling happened again.
Checked as you suggested and the top center # was 13.
While this cycling was happening, the IN voltage from PV would cycle from 27 to 12.2, then back to 27 every two seconds as the controller switched back and forth from Resting to MPPT and back to Resting.
Checked again as the sun was just beginning to show it's face on the Eastern horizon, and the cycling had stopped. At this point that "secret" top cntr # was 5, and the IN voltage closely matched Batt voltage. Output at this point was 1.1 amps.
From this point on, as the sky brightens, the controller operates fine with ever increasing output till Solar Noon.
If the 2 second cycling is normal, then so be it, but it seems unnecessary wear on the relay, and that's the only thing that bothers me about it. I wouldn't hear the clicking if I wasn't out in the solar shed during those low light times.
Thanks again.
Wayne
Wayne, RFR = 5 just means low power (usually less than 20 watts) for 90 seconds.
RFR = 13 is probably why it was doing the clicking. This RFR of 13 means that when it came
out of Resting, it went 10 volts higher than the Voc it measured when in Resting.
So, looks like you have a 12 V battery but how many volts do you see on the PV input if you
see it Resting for a few seconds during the day OR turn MODE to off for a moment and then
look at the PV input voltage. That is the real open circuit voltage (Voc).
Also looks like you are in either PV U-Set or Dynamic mode ? (Solar 1) ?
Have you tried either SOLAR or Legacy P&O MPPT modes ?
I think we can get you adjusted to lower the relay clicking though. A wee bit more
information maybe needed. Don't worry too much about the clicking hurting the
relay. It's doing it at lower power at least.
boB
Hi again boB, I really appreciate your time and patience!
Yes, when it was showing 5, the sky was just starting to brighten, but still far away from being bright enough for the PV to produce any usable power. The PV voltage at that point was only 27, but that was enough to trigger the Classic out of Resting, whereupon the Classic would drain the PV voltage down to 12 and shut go to Rest again.
In full daylight, the PV Vmp hangs around 38 or 40 volts, depending on PV temperature. I still have to check Voc, unfortunately I didn't get to it today.
I'm not yet familiar with the U-set / Dynamic mode etc. I'll see if I can find it in the manual.
Thanks again.
Wayne
Hi yet again Bob!
Finally got back to the Classic. Been a busy time.
Discovered the unit was operating in sort of a PWM mode. Hadn't noticed that before.
Battery bank is 12 volt.
PV Voc is 42.
PV Vmp 36.
What I discovered is that the Classic was drawing down the PV voltage to just below battery voltage, and output current was roughly what I would expect from a PWM CC.
Found the U-set/dynamic menu and it appeared to be in Solar mode. Hadn't been to this part of the menu before. Selected U-set and there was no difference, then back to Solar. Suddenly the PV voltage went up to 38 and likewise the amps to battery went up to roughly 15 from the 3.8 that had been showing. Perhaps it had been in U-set. Cloudy/overcast, so not expecting more at this time.
Perhaps this will solve a couple of problems, one of them being lower than expected output amps, but that hadn't really been bothering me too mush as we were having one stormy day after another. Looking forward to some sun later this afternoon and seeing how it now operates at dusk.
This thing is amazing, so many user adjustments of real value. Was easily able to precisely match it's Absorb / Float voltages to the TS-MPPT-60 so they work VERY well together. No fights, no arguments between them and that's great.
Wayne, what bets if you had a KID there would be an argument? ::)
CooL, Wayne !
From the RFR numbers I thought that maybe the Classic was in U-Set or Dynamic mode rather
than SOLAR mode.
Legacy can also work pretty well. For low battery voltage (12V) and low-ish PV voltages, Legacy is a lot of times the best choice for tracking mode.
The nice thing is that you can play with it and see.
When trying U-Set, first try setting the percentage of Voc to around 75% to 80% for unshaded arrays.
Unshaded meaning, no "partial" shading. Clouds are not partial shading of course.
Glad it is working better !
boB
Thanks a lot Bob! Yes, it appears to be operating very well now. And the 2 second cycling at dusk is gone! It does (at dusk) try bulk every minute or two, but as there is no longer enough light, it goes back to resting. That fine, no problem there, and it didn't last long, I watched as the PV Voc gradually made it's way down to battery voltage, at which time the CC stayed resting. The final cycle of the relay lasted 1.5 minutes and by that time it's day was over. :)
One of these days I'll try the Legacy mode and see how it goes.
Again, I want to thank you Bob very much for your assistance.
Signed:
Wayne, a happy Classic owner. :)
Wayne.
I have my Classic set to Legacy mode. Seems to work better than Solar and Dynamic modes. I also found that Dynamic mode worked better than solar on my configuration. I have Legacy mode configured for 03 Minutes and 14% of Watts. Adjusting the percentage up and down to fine tune it. I started at 10%, monitored the performance and then tuned the watts percentage for better performance. 14% works for my configuration, your mileage may vary.
Great info phxmark! Thanks for sharing!
Am going to try to set mine up like yours and see how it goes. Hoping I can figure out how to set the time and %.
Gotta get my nose back in the manual.
Thanks again.
Wayne