Just curious if anyone is working any EMP protection for their solar set up.
Thanks! : )
Probably need to be enclosed in a Faraday cage that would also interfere with the solar radiation reaching it. As well as all the cabling and other electronics.
I saw a long thread on this somewhere but not related to solar cells. EMP destroys the PN junction on semiconductors like in electronics and solar cells.
I seriously doubt it can actually be done with any budget less than NASA had before we outsourced that too?
The good news is mechanically commutated turbines will still make DC, DC mechanically commutated motors will still work batteries will still work and any electronics you have buried or in metal containers may still work.
If that happens on any massive scale the least of your worries will be the solar cells, I think. None of your electronics will survive, spelled almost everything we use, cars, freezers, fridges, pacemakers, laser sights.
Or not?
Just from my prior researching the subject.
Get that back up gear now and get it buried in metal cans today...
Seriously, I do not think there is much that you can do in a practical sense on an in use system.
Tom
Probably best to have spare equipment and hide them underground in that Faraday shielded box.
Anything with wires on it will probably act like antennas and break anything connected.
boB
the guys are essentially correct that unless it is all inside a faraday cage it has a chance of being fried. now there are different sources of emp as well and i'd be curious as to what source you had in mind on protecting from. lightning is the most common source followed by solar events and finally nuclear events. the nuclear event you would have the toughest time in protecting from. solar events are minor most times unless the rare big events penetrate our protective earthly magnetic field and then the prone items will be those with the longest pickup wires known as the grid as anything connected to it could be fried. smaller off grid pv setups not having a connection to the grid are less likely to be affected by solar events. lightning is random and proximity related.
in most of these cases modest efforts from a well laid out setup should lessen the chances from most incidents, but not all. lightning is the biggy due to its frequency of events. solar events are usually rarer to be of any threat and nuclear is one we hope to never have to deal with as its destructibility is unprecedented. in all cases the longer the wires in the system the greater the risk with the utility wires posing the greatest risk for pick up. it is the nuclear that is a cell killer and the nuclear from our sun is less likely to do harm to the cells due to the magnetic field shielding our earth. i've not heard of lightning doing anything to the cells unless from a direct hit.
Nashville; I recently did put my entire setup in a faraday cage, a new classic and inverter with two midnight SPD's , but if you have to follow NEC guidelines it would be a waste of time and money, everthing has to be isolated inside, I don't have case grounds from any equipment because the box itself has to be grounded, all of my wireing comes in thru long flex alum. conduit with alum. covered weather stripping, I think I am protected from lightening very well but solar flares I don't know about, how many corners can a emp go around. I do know from watching the show on tv ERA Alaska it seemed that electonics were only disabled as long as the flares were active not destoyed. In the case of the big bomb whow, I have my old Morningstar unit put away.
I'm really reluctant to comment on this subject, as when we get into EMP stuff, we are leaving the realm of the NEC, and entering the world of physics, and one thing I've
learned, (the hard way) is that folks who love the NEC generally don't much care for
physics all that much.
That said, I'll endeavor to post something useful.
When folks talk about EMP events, they are usually couching talking about nuclear weapon events in terms of natural events such as solar flares and deep space gamma bursts. Couple of things, hollywood doesn't do this very well.
A nuclear EMP is a different animal from a solar flare. Sure, there are some commonalities,
but there are vast differences in scale here.
Some terms, E1, E2, and E3 EMP events.
E1 is a fast nuclear electromagnetic pulse. Or rather, 'very fast'. Very intense, and very brief. Happens when the gamma radiation from an atmospheric nuclear detonation knocks the electrons (grossly simplified) out of the atoms in the atmosphere, generally towards ground (that's where we live) at about .9 c. Pretty quick. Slams into our power grid, and other conductive stuff (and we all understand capacitance enough to know that's a variable) the earth's magnetic field helps bring all this energy into neat alignment so that we get a neat and tidy, very fast, and brutally intense electrical surge. Depending on proximity, this will mess things up really badly. All things being relative, a 2 MEV (million electron volt ((different from our 'regular' volt))) burst will (in higher latitudes) give us something like 50kv per sq meter, at about 50 amps. IE, about 5 megawatts per square meter, with a 5 nanosecond rise time, and it's over in about 1,000 nanoseconds (according to the IEC). Google "Compton effect".
E2 follows on for about a second, and is the effect of the unfocused scattered gamma radiation, and is rather like a close lightning strike. A lot of stuff already survives this pretty well, unless -of course- it's already been damaged by the E1.
E3 goes on for a while, minutes, maybe an hour. This is caused by the earth's magnetic field re-asserting it's natural shape after being -literally- pushed aside by the nuclear blast. This is like a severe solar storm. This is what will mess up long transmission lines, transformers, transfer stations, and such. This would be what folks call a 'solar emp'.
Folks talk about how stuff is either emp hardened, or it must be in a military grade faraday cage. I'm unsure what they mean by this. Shielding is good, more shielding is better, irrespective of all this stuff. Being connected to the grid means stuff will get destroyed. Not being connected to the grid means less stuff will be endangered, and being shielded, and well grounded (for whatever grounded really means in these contexts) means you might'ened not have much trouble at all.
All the movies where there is a big light in the sky and all the cars die, are movies. Yeah, some cars might die, some might not. Truth is, we've got bigger problems than the cars dying if folks are slinging nukes around. And your panels are probably toast.
--edit,
I've never read anything anywhere that was even remotely useful concerning PV panels and EMP. And I've looked.
in the case of this nuclear event i wonder just how many of us would be left to repair our pv systems.
Quote from: jim k. on February 03, 2013, 06:19:12 PM
in the case of this nuclear event i wonder just how many of us would be left to repair our pv systems.
indeed.
Thank you for a very extensive reply, this is good info!
Quote from: cpm on February 03, 2013, 05:53:45 PM
I'm really reluctant to comment on this subject, as when we get into EMP stuff, we are leaving the realm of the NEC, and entering the world of physics, and one thing I've
learned, (the hard way) is that folks who love the NEC generally don't much care for
physics all that much.
That said, I'll endeavor to post something useful.
When folks talk about EMP events, they are usually couching talking about nuclear weapon events in terms of natural events such as solar flares and deep space gamma bursts. Couple of things, hollywood doesn't do this very well.
A nuclear EMP is a different animal from a solar flare. Sure, there are some commonalities,
but there are vast differences in scale here.
Some terms, E1, E2, and E3 EMP events.
E1 is a fast nuclear electromagnetic pulse. Or rather, 'very fast'. Very intense, and very brief. Happens when the gamma radiation from an atmospheric nuclear detonation knocks the electrons (grossly simplified) out of the atoms in the atmosphere, generally towards ground (that's where we live) at about .9 c. Pretty quick. Slams into our power grid, and other conductive stuff (and we all understand capacitance enough to know that's a variable) the earth's magnetic field helps bring all this energy into neat alignment so that we get a neat and tidy, very fast, and brutally intense electrical surge. Depending on proximity, this will mess things up really badly. All things being relative, a 2 MEV (million electron volt ((different from our 'regular' volt))) burst will (in higher latitudes) give us something like 50kv per sq meter, at about 50 amps. IE, about 5 megawatts per square meter, with a 5 nanosecond rise time, and it's over in about 1,000 nanoseconds (according to the IEC). Google "Compton effect".
E2 follows on for about a second, and is the effect of the unfocused scattered gamma radiation, and is rather like a close lightning strike. A lot of stuff already survives this pretty well, unless -of course- it's already been damaged by the E1.
E3 goes on for a while, minutes, maybe an hour. This is caused by the earth's magnetic field re-asserting it's natural shape after being -literally- pushed aside by the nuclear blast. This is like a severe solar storm. This is what will mess up long transmission lines, transformers, transfer stations, and such. This would be what folks call a 'solar emp'.
Folks talk about how stuff is either emp hardened, or it must be in a military grade faraday cage. I'm unsure what they mean by this. Shielding is good, more shielding is better, irrespective of all this stuff. Being connected to the grid means stuff will get destroyed. Not being connected to the grid means less stuff will be endangered, and being shielded, and well grounded (for whatever grounded really means in these contexts) means you might'ened not have much trouble at all.
All the movies where there is a big light in the sky and all the cars die, are movies. Yeah, some cars might die, some might not. Truth is, we've got bigger problems than the cars dying if folks are slinging nukes around. And your panels are probably toast.
--edit,
I've never read anything anywhere that was even remotely useful concerning PV panels and EMP. And I've looked.
Quote from: jim k. on February 03, 2013, 06:19:12 PM
in the case of this nuclear event i wonder just how many of us would be left to repair our pv systems.
Actually, this is a bit inaccurate. A nuclear bomb designed to detonate above the atmosphere can produce the pulse, leaving people intact.
I think if that event were to happen it would just the beginning of something much larger, it would be time to get in the bunker, grab your butt with both hands and probably pray if that is what you do.
actually with solar and lightning emps, most of this energy is found to be in longer wavelengths. this means long wire lengths are what is prone to the pickup of this energy. in the case of a nuclear blast, there is a high concentration of shorter wavelengths allowing pickups with hardly any wire lengths that can do more damage and penetrate most attempts at shielding. most pvs i suspect would be fried under a nuclear blast, but i can't say for certain as i don't know of a case study on it.
here is a little known fact about what Thunderstorms 'create' - Anti-matter....Amazing
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/GLAST/news/fermi-thunderstorms.html