I would like to know if you can run Midnite Solar local app on a Samsung Tablet? Has anybody attempted to get it to work.
Because it's Android bas system.
Quote from: groutch on February 28, 2013, 07:57:56 PM
I would like to know if you can run Midnite Solar local app on a Samsung Tablet? Has anybody attempted to get it to work.
Because it's Android bas system.
The MidNite Solar Local Application which enables you to monitor your Classics over your local network or the Internet. It is compatible with Windows© 7, Vista, and XP, and Mac OS X ©.
It needs Adobe Air.
John
Is that an Android tablet ? If so, no.
The Local App ~should~ be able to be compiled for Android but there are evidently
library problems with Android's AIR.
Unfortunately, Androids and iPhones and tablets just aren't as versatile as a PC.
boB
Quote from: boB on March 01, 2013, 12:53:10 AM
Unfortunately, Androids and iPhones and tablets just aren't as versatile as a PC.
boB
Sounds like another argument for a web browser interface on the Classic? ;D
Probably just stating the obvious. :o
Tom
Quote from: TomW on March 01, 2013, 07:03:53 AM
Sounds like another argument for a web browser interface on the Classic? ;D
Probably just stating the obvious. :o
Tom
.naughty... ;D
Tom, you know my views on this and I don't want to rant (again) I just wish someone at MN would stand back and take a good look at the web classic instead of investing all the apparent effort in the local app, sorry almost slipped into rant more but will say no more.
Just as an aside I was at a 'free drinks and nibbles do' this morning with a local alt energy supplier.
There was lots of lithium battery stuff, cheaper and getting cheaper PVs etc.. But one item of interest to me as a new mppt controller, Chinese, about to be released, basically 45a output 12,24,48v Ethernet, USB host, SD card socket, 2 CPU one is an ARM and a web host interface.
Just reminded me of the web pages you get with a Cisco wrt54g, live monitoring page inc fet temps, 2 pages for setup, one does mppt controller stuff the other ip config stuff (its set to default 192.168.1.230) and last web page is 300 day reporting.
Not IMHO as sophisticated as the Classic in doing its mppt control, battery charging etc BUT what a simple and useful setup and reporting web interface. I will not post pics and web images as its probably not appropriate in an MN forum.
I think it would also be interesting to have an Amin run poll on here to see what MN Classic users would prefer, the current local app or a classic with a web interface.
Just a thought.. ???
Dgd
I have to agree when it comes to App vs Web interface. We headed down the app road a Long time ago and it is what it is BUT.
Andrew and I both agree that after this big push on the app is done next week hopefully we will call it done for the most part. The Focus going forward will be the Web based service and a webpage on the device. This will hopefully become a template for all MN products. I am a fan of having the web interface on the device. It makes it much easier for the user.
Ryan
Hear, Hear! or did I mean Here Here :-\
Quote from: Westbranch on March 01, 2013, 07:56:57 PM
Hear, Hear! or did I mean Here Here :-\
There there west stay calm.. :). My browser will be patient and quietly bubbling with excitement
(Or was that G and T. :P
Dgd
Nah Auchentoshan! :)
Say, have you heard of FLTK? My systems-guru buddy and I were talking about that topic and he has used FLTK for a GUI and feels it would be quite amenable to what we would like... rather than that AIR stuff that stopped supporting Linux in 2011 >:( imagine only .5% of their users were Linux based
Westbranch,
I went to http://www.fltk.org/ but could not find any examples of how its output looks.
You got any links ??
As far as viewing applications go, My Midnite will be the absolute easiest for normal Joes because
there will be no port forwarding involved AND it will be HTML.
The internal web server will be faster than My Midnite but if you are outside of your home LAN,
you will need to port forward and a lot of people have had problems with that.
So, you can have your cake and eat it too and choose what flavor.
Three different methods of communicating and viewing your system.
boB
PS... It's too bad that Adobe AIR is eventually going the way of the dinosaur because it was the ultimate
cross platform dedicated application that could do everything and had all of the plugins and APIs available
to do the job.
Also, with the web server in the Classic, whenever there is an upgrade to that, you will have to upgrade the Classics'
firmware rather than quickly download and install a new app on your PC. My Midnite will be the easiest for this because
then you do not have to download anything at all ! It will automatically be updated next WWW browsing session.
Quote from: boB on March 01, 2013, 09:12:58 PM
As far as viewing applications go, My Midnite will be the absolute easiest for normal Joes because
there will be no port forwarding involved AND it will be HTML.
There is just something unnatural about connecting to a Classic that may be just a few metres away using a web server computer located hundreds of Ks away. Can be slow throughput on busy IP core routes. Probably incurring expensive data charges too.
Give me the local web page anytime, port forwarding problems are minor and a one-off soon solved.
Quote
Also, with the web server in the Classic, whenever there is an upgrade to that, you will have to upgrade the Classics'
firmware rather than quickly download and install a new app on your PC. My Midnite will be the easiest for this because
then you do not have to download anything at all ! It will automatically be updated next WWW browsing session.
Hmmmm.. Not sure I would be that confident in a firmware download direct to an operating Classic.
The present firmware download though seemingly complicated the first time is a once learned activity.
Dgd
Well, of course there will not be any port forwarding necessary when you are on your own LAN so that's
the way to go for when you are nearby. But remember, port forwarding for you and me may be a
walk in the park but for others can be very intimidating. So, we'll offer both methods.
As far as server charges, yes it is not free, but for My Midnite, we will incur those charges and
give that away to every user.
For updating, yes, once it has been done, it is pretty darn easy to do but you do have to power
it down first. You will be able to do that through Ethernet rather than by USB eventually so at least
you won't have to go through all that USB hassle when that happens.
boB
dgd, boB, West, Ryan;
Since we have opened the door here and bear in mind I do not want to step on any toes.
I have to concur that the process of going to a remote and possibly unreachable website to monitor or control a device that is across the compound / driveway just seems inefficient. Especially if / when things go down the tubes and our infrastructure fails. Which is one reason Our home has RE to be brutally honest.
Personally, I live in an Internet Dead Zone with flaky on and off access.
I much prefer a local option only requiring my system is working and not requiring proprietary software that may not be available for the operating system I choose to use. There are folks I know of still using Amigas you know. :o No, not me.
I also understand historic choices and investment in same being hard to turn your back on.
I honestly think it would be trivial for a savvy programmer to build a system on a PI that interfaced with the Modbus on the Classic much like the Local App that was HTTP: based. I really could not find anything off the shelf that did modbus on the Arm processor and Ubuntu.
Nothing I am up to doing but cannot be that big a deal. That could be an Open Source project given a few interested code mongers. CGI interfaced with Modbus over ethernet. How hard can it really be?
Offer a "black box" you jack into your LAN and it talks to the Classic. Seems it could run alongside the Local App and the My.Midnite ?
Is that one connection at a time via Local App something that would limit other monitoring and control connections?
I am about to ask a couple buddies to look at this idea and give me some feedback. No guarantees, neither owes me any favors lately. Both are good with out of the box thinking and unusual solutions. Neither "does" RE.
It does not have to be Midnite doing this, either. It could be a 3rd party product. Updates could be as easy as flashing a new image to an SDHC card or an apt type update method? All of this is in place already and would be easy to adapt to this kind of project. I think.
Just spitballing here.
Tom
Tom, you made me think of something I hadn't thought of before...
Right now, the Classic can handle 2 Ethernet connections at once.
One is whatever application that can call and talk to the Classic over
modbus (like the Local App) and the second one is when the Classic calls
into our server (My Midnite).
With the web page server in the Classic itself, is it going to be a third connection that can
be accessed at the same time as the other two ?
I don't know the answer to that yet. I think that it can be set up that way though.
As far as local web talk, when the Classic is connected to a home LAN and available
over the WiFi, a smart phone with wifi can access it, and that will be to its internal
web page server or a modbus smart phone app.
boB
I to agree with Tom a lot of offgrid people do not have internet and just want to view there stuff on the LAN, and then there are some of us who worry about the future and what it holds and may not want our device calling out to a server. So both a webserver option and offsite server option are needed.
I really like 3rd party stuff I also really like open source. We would definitely support any one wanting to build and sell the "Black Box" The beauty of the black box approach is the option to monitor things like say my inverter or anemometer are there as well opening lots of doors.
I know of one company that is headed down that road but it wont be open source. I unfortunately am not a programer or I would be on the Open Source scenario big time.
So how do we start an open source movement for the Black Box?
Ryan
here is a neat app for data logging that I used on my old system, will use it once the new system is up and running to poll the XBM batt monitor.
http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/roderick/pvm/pvmon.html
originally posted on NAWS
sent Roderick an email to see if he is still around
Here is my friends response as to how FLTK can work.
Seeing is believing, you could copy and paste the below.
[my thoughts]
As regards to updating the internal webserver over the net. This is foolish when not all people have internet access, it just makes life hard for the less fortunate. Updating a PC program is far easier, Memory sticks are cheap and a well written program should fit a floppy disk if that is the only option (could even span disks if necessary with WinRAR for example). By updating the PC program a person can get updates when the come out of the internet boonies to internet civilization. Internet access should not be taken as a given, there are still places that only have phone modem access that is as reliable as a $1 watch. This world has an abundance of places where there is no grid and the only power is what you produce yourself, where a land line phone is still only a dream.
[copy below]
For those who want to see what FLTK looks like
http://members.shaw.ca/lnr729/shopcalc/WorkshopCalulator.html
There are download links for Linux and Windows versions.
It must be understood that a large part of what FLTK looks like is dependent on the programmer.
Another salient point is that FLTK (its self) is not reliant on a whole bunch of supporting dll files (shared objects in Linux) or interpreters like python. Only the FLTK program needs to be copied, installing is not required as the program is stand alone being fully self contained (for the programmer types, it is statically linked). FLTK complies into static libraries for Windows, Linux (raspberry pi) and Mac, that covers the main stream.
Quote from: TomW on March 01, 2013, 10:58:17 PM
Nothing I am up to doing but cannot be that big a deal. That could be an Open Source project given a few interested code mongers. CGI interfaced with Modbus over ethernet....
Offer a "black box" you jack into your LAN and it talks to the Classic. Seems it could run alongside the Local App and the My.Midnite
All good but I cant see it happen anytime soon.. and why bother?
A web page from the Classic showing live data, status. Another that initiates downloading the 380 day logs using the browsers file download, another for basic setup.
There are plenty of graphical/3D/spreadsheet programs to deal with the log files.
Leave the firmware updating the way it is. It works well and isn't broken. It doesn't need fixed or done differently.
dgd
dgd;
**SIGH**
Did you read what you quoted?
You missed the POINT.
This would be a separate device to bypass or work in parallel with the Local App. For those who might want different options or have systems / devices that cannot use AIR or Windoze. Likely very inexpensive plug and play on a LAN.
I never proposed they alter the Classic or firmware in any way. In fact I did not propose MN change anything.
I will just go ahead and see where it leads. Why? Because I think it would be useful.
I know a Pi can update a Classic so that is possible and I already log with one. It has a web server, CGI, Perl, etc already.
I won't bother placing you on the beta testers list, I guess?
Thanks for your enlightened feedback.
Tom
Quote from: TomW on March 02, 2013, 07:08:15 PM
dgd;
**SIGH**
Did you read what you quoted?
You missed the POINT.
I thought I got your point exactly. And I asked why bother?
Since Ryan has said the Classic web interface is being looked at and the Local App gets canned soon then does it make sense to invest effort in a network box to function as you described? Maybe it does, I don't know. I was simply pointing out that once the Classic gets its web pages there would be little need for any other box/program. I imagine too the local app would fade into obscurity and MyMN too....
Although having said that, I am attempting that very thing right now with my rPi and as you have discovered its not a straightforward exercise to create an rPi based black box. I could write a modbus lib for Unix but I know
the time and effort it would take and I have a feeling that if I go that way it may end up a pointless exercise once the Classic
starts serving web pages.
I should have pointed the last para about firmware updating to the post talking about MyMN firmware auto updating.
Sorry if I stood on your toe :Put
dgd
Quote from: Halfcrazy on March 02, 2013, 06:16:36 AM
So how do we start an open source movement for the Black Box?
Ryan
Easy, ask for views on the functions people would like to see in the black box.
See if there is general agreement on the basic functions (ignoring cynical nay Sayers me?)
Ask if anyone has written stuff like this
Get consensus on software and hardware platforms, eg RPi. Perl, etc..
Ask for volunteers to code particular parts.
Get a coordinator, not necessarily a code writer but an enthusiastic 'want to see the job done' type of person. TomW?
IMHO the modular open frame design is good, make a software framework for the code with plug in modules etc..
Dgd
Well as I am PI less or Clue less :o I will defer to the smarter gurus. I will however do anything I can on my end to support this movement as I feel it is a needed item. I see lots of possibility's here and am excited to see this progress.
Let me know if and what I can do to help with this.
Ryan
And of course I forgot to say... :o
Start new forum discussion are for this, hopefully there would be enough interest to have several message threads active, eg hardware to use, interfacing - Ethernet, serial rs222, MN boxes to talk to, non MN devices to talktoo, etc.. :P
Dgd
My head is a bit fuzzy today so hope tis makes sense....
Just perused most of this thread, and got fuzzier but I saw the dgd post about a poll.
I think we need to know the number of people with Classics and if they are ON or OFF grid and WITH or WITHOUT Internet access ON SITE. These answers would explain a lot about what is desired by the user.
Then the type of features in the 'Black Box'( as TomW called it) that they would like.
Out of this mess, did I say that?, will be the essence of what should be worked on as the .'kernel' of the BB. boy sounds like a Classic ;D ;D
Make sense?? :o
Quote from: Westbranch on March 06, 2013, 09:07:52 PM
I think we need to know the number of people with Classics and if they are ON or OFF grid and WITH or WITHOUT Internet access ON SITE. These answers would explain a lot about what is desired by the user.
I agree that would be useful information... Ryan?
dgd
Agreed but not sure "How" I could answer that? I do feel like the breakdown is as follows:
85% Solar
10% wind
5% Hydro
30-40% off grid
10% grid backed up but not grid tied sorta like an end of the world system
50-60% Grid tied
Of course these numbers are sorta like Political poles and are based completely on my day to day discussion with the actual customers that call me so it is a limited sample.
Ryan