Okay, not really. But, it was an attention getter, no?
First, this involves:
1 - 135 watts panel (waiting for another panel the same size to come in)
1 - Beta Kid #35, Firmware v1742
1 - Off-the-wall branded SE Asian battery, 120AH
Oh, and I actually like my Beta Kid very much. I will like it even better once I know how to operate the thing properly.
Anyway, on to the issue: Calibration
I thought I had it set yesterday. It was charging fine.
This morning, I wake up and the screen is blank. (This has happened in the past.) So, I disconnect input and disconnect, and reconnect the battery. Then, adjust the calibration on the input and reconnect it in order to get it to start again.
Unfortunately, my current multimeter only reads in whole voltages, and has a single range of 0-600vdc.
(I am waiting for a new Klein MM100 Multimeter (http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=35047806) to come from the states. It should arrive by this upcoming weekend.)
At night, when no voltage should be read from the panel, it still shows input voltage on the display. If I change the calibration where that reads zero at night, the following morning - today, it causes the display to blank out again.
Anyway, another couple of questions, why does the unit have to be calibrated anyway? Shouldn't it be able to check the voltage on the solar input, as well as the battery bank voltage?
Sign me,
Confused in Cambodia
EDIT: Added firmware version
Have you updated the FW? If not you need to contact Ryan@Midnitesolar.com and get the bootloader to update. Reason is oyu have a BETA model
Yep, all updated to the most recent version. Mario sent it to me about a week or so ago. I keep forgetting that I should add that to posts regarding a Beta.
EDIT: Added firmware version to O/P.
What about trying a reinstall in case it didn't take? Hopefully you don't have to send it back...
Quote from: Westbranch on July 22, 2014, 01:23:33 AMWhat about trying a reinstall in case it didn't take?
I guess I could. I have the most recent firmware. I am in hopes it is just something to do with the settings.
If you, or anyone else here has a Kid, maybe post if you had to calibrate your Kid controller?
Quote from: Westbranch on July 22, 2014, 01:23:33 AMHopefully you don't have to send it back...
Oh, man! Please, don't even think that. It took me over four months to get this thing here. I would be down to using a MorningStar Sunlight 10a, 12v controller again.
Quote from: Free Energy Freak on July 21, 2014, 11:23:07 PM
adjust the calibration on the input and reconnect it in order to get it to start again.
Unfortunately, my current multimeter only reads in whole voltages, and has a single range of 0-600vdc.
Maybe you should be using the Kid to calibrate your multimeter. --vtMaps
Quote from: vtmaps on July 22, 2014, 05:32:14 AMMaybe you should be using the Kid to calibrate your multimeter.
At this point, I think I will wait for the Klein to arrive, and just use the MorningStar Sunlight controller until then. This is giving me a headache.
Quote from: Free Energy Freak on July 21, 2014, 11:23:07 PM
...
At night, when no voltage should be read from the panel, it still shows input voltage on the display. If I change the calibration where that reads zero at night, the following morning - today, it causes the display to blank out again.
You should not be using calibration to show zero input volts at night. With the battery connected and no solar input the KID will make the input voltage show at a value somewhere below the battery voltage
This is normal for the Kid and Classic controllers, its designed to do this.
I dont understand why you use calibration anyway especially since you do not have an accurate voltmeter to determine actual battery and solar input voltages
dgd
Quote from: dgd on July 22, 2014, 06:25:49 AMThis is normal for the Kid and Classic controllers, its designed to do this.
This is the first I have seen, or read this, anywhere. If it is in the owner's manual, I missed it. If it isn't in the manual, it should be. This is, to me anyway, something I would think that end users should be made aware of.
Naturally, I believed it should show zero volts at night, when no input is coming from the solar array. What reason would there be for a controller to show voltage input at night?
Quote from: dgd on July 22, 2014, 06:25:49 AMI dont understand why you use calibration anyway especially since you do not have an accurate voltmeter to determine actual battery and solar input voltages
Because, if I do not adjust it, the screen will blank out, or the controller will not charge. It will continually show "resting" on the display, when I know for certain the battery needs to be charged.
If any of this is an "MPPT thing", it's all new to me, as this is my first MPPT controller.
Quote from: Free Energy Freak on July 22, 2014, 06:32:41 AM
This is the first I have seen, or read this, anywhere. If it is in the owner's manual, I missed it. If it isn't in the manual, it should be. This is, to me anyway, something I would think that end users should be made aware of.
This action by Classics and Kids has been discussed before in various message threads. Maybe MN need to document this if its not in any of the manuals.
(my beta kid #28 shows 18v input at night with 24v battery bank)
Quote
Naturally, I believed it should show zero volts at night, when no input is coming from the solar array. What reason would there be for a controller to show voltage input at night?
Its not actually showing PV input as there is no input voltage from the PVs. The KID is holdin its input terminals at a voltage somewhere below the battery voltage
If you disconnect the PV cable from the KID then measure the voltage on the KIDs input terminals you will see this voltage. If you measure the voltage on the PV cables this will be zero.
This is simply a feature of the KID and Classic MPPT controllers.
Quote
Because, if I do not adjust it, the screen will blank out, or the controller will not charge. It will continually show "resting" on the display, when I know for certain the battery needs to be charged.
If any of this is an "MPPT thing", it's all new to me, as this is my first MPPT controller.
You have another problem which I suspect is because you only have one solar panel providing input voltage, probably max power voltage between 17 and 18volts.
This may be less as the panel heats up.
In any case the panel may not be providing sufficient voltage to enable the KID mppt to function properly so with a well charged 12volt battery over 13v and hot panel making under 17v there is insufficient voltage headroom to start the controller charging.
This issue should be resolved when you get the second panel and connect it in series with the first to increase PV maxV to about 35volts.
dgd
Forgot to suggest that the controller may work better with just one pv panel if you use Legacy P&O charge mode.
dgd
Quote from: dgd on July 22, 2014, 06:58:49 AMThis action by Classics and Kids has been discussed before in various message threads. Maybe MN need to document this if its not in any of the manuals.
(my beta kid #28 shows 18v input at night with 24v battery bank)
Most definitely. I have the most recent version of the owner's manual for the Kid. There are several things that will confuse an end user more than help them, from what I have read so far. Other areas simply not discussed, or not in enough detail.
Quote from: dgd on July 22, 2014, 06:58:49 AMIts not actually showing PV input as there is no input voltage from the PVs. The KID is holdin its input terminals at a voltage somewhere below the battery voltage
If you disconnect the PV cable from the KID then measure the voltage on the KIDs input terminals you will see this voltage. If you measure the voltage on the PV cables this will be zero.
This is simply a feature of the KID and Classic MPPT controllers.
Odd to me. But, I guess there is a reason for it. I will make a note of this. Thanks for letting me know about it.
Quote from: dgd on July 22, 2014, 06:58:49 AMYou have another problem which I suspect is because you only have one solar panel providing input voltage, probably max power voltage between 17 and 18volts.
This may be less as the panel heats up.
In any case the panel may not be providing sufficient voltage to enable the KID mppt to function properly so with a well charged 12volt battery over 13v and hot panel making under 17v there is insufficient voltage headroom to start the controller charging.
This issue should be resolved when you get the second panel and connect it in series with the first to increase PV maxV to about 35volts.
Well, at the moment we should have days up to 30 degrees or so. Lows about 25-26. However, with rainy season here, I don't imagine the panel is heating up too badly. Obviously, not all day, but parts of the day the sky clears enough for the controller to - according to the current settings anyway, send up to about 75 or 80 watts to the controller. I figure, considering the weather now, and that it is a single 135 watts panel, that isn't too bad?
Hopefully, my other panel will come in before the end of August, so I can wire it up. (That could include everything from prayer, to begging and screaming, in order to get things done in this part of the world. But, I suppose that is one reason you rent an entire home for $200 US per month, or less. So, not too much screaming will be done.)
Quote from: dgd on July 22, 2014, 07:12:10 AMForgot to suggest that the controller may work better with just one pv panel if you use Legacy P&O charge mode.
Ahhh, yes. The ol' P&0. The option I read about in the manual, and still have no idea what it is. Okay. I will try that tomorrow.
Quote from: dgd on July 22, 2014, 06:58:49 AM
This action by Classics and Kids has been discussed before in various message threads. Maybe MN need to document this if its not in any of the manuals.
It should be in the manual... it's a FAQ on this forum. --vtMaps
FEF, to complete your sig , it will help to add the battery voltage. it puts any numbers into perspective...
Also what are the loads during the day, some of your problem with charging may be from a close to full battery and high heat and low PV output as DGD said
Quote from: Westbranch on July 22, 2014, 11:35:44 AMFEF, to complete your sig , it will help to add the battery voltage. it puts any numbers into perspective...
Sorry. Forgot that. All banks are 12vdc.
Quote from: Westbranch on July 22, 2014, 11:35:44 AMAlso what are the loads during the day, some of your problrmd with charging may be from a cloe to fulll battery and high heat and low PV output as DGD said
The 400 watts array is at the off-grid farm. It powers 3 watt LED lights, cell phone chargers, small DC television, dvd player, and a fan.
The 135 watts array is here at our home. It will power my electronics about once per week during a power cut of up to a few hours. Once I get the second panel wired, it should easily charge a single 120AH battery in one day, from my calculations. (I was pretty bad at math in school, though.)
The 100 watts array is at the off-grid farm, solely to power some outside LED perimeter lighting. Gets pretty dark where no mains are for some distance.
So far, I have only drawn a 150 watts 230v inverter to power my computer and a fan, during yesterday's power cut. Prior to then the battery connected to the Kid was pretty close to being fully charged. This morning, though, the battery should have needed a charge. However, when I woke - after sun rise, the display was already blank. The only thing I could do was power off the PV, power off the battery and restart the controller. I lowered the calibration on the input and connected the solar.
----------------
EDIT:
I want the battery to get as full of a charge during the day as possible. I certainly do not want to wake up every morning to a blank display, and have to sort it. :(
Quote from: Free Energy Freak on July 22, 2014, 12:33:35 PM
I want the battery to get as full of a charge during the day as possible. I certainly do not want to wake up every morning to a blank display, and have to sort it. :(
Yup, that is probably everyone's main objective
cheers...
FEF, you will need to calibrate the kid with a more accurate meter than what you currently have, some users have mentioned that your panel VOC is probably really close to the battery voltage, that could also be a problem.
Now as for the Blank Screen, there were some Beta kids with that problem some of them got fixed with software update and others had to come back for a Hardware update.
Lets get you unit calibrated and see if that changes anything, try Solar 2 O&P mode, and if that doesn't fix it then the unit will most likely have to come back for hardware upgrade.... you have to remember that this is still a beta unit, hardware was still under final steps of development.
Soon enough I could have some Beta firmware that could help the issue.
Mario
Quote from: Mario on July 23, 2014, 08:23:00 PM
FEF, you will need to calibrate the kid with a more accurate meter than what you currently have, some users have mentioned that your panel VOC is probably really close to the battery voltage, that could also be a problem.
Now as for the Blank Screen, there were some Beta kids with that problem some of them got fixed with software update and others had to come back for a Hardware update.
Lets get you unit calibrated and see if that changes anything, try Solar 2 O&P mode, and if that doesn't fix it then the unit will most likely have to come back for hardware upgrade.... you have to remember that this is still a beta unit, hardware was still under final steps of development.
Soon enough I could have some Beta firmware that could help the issue.
Mario
Yeah, I understand, Mario. I didn't really mean that I hated it. As you and I discussed on Skype, it is more of me NOT knowing what I am doing, I think, than it is the unit NOT performing as it should. "Too many bells & whistles for me," as my dear departed pappy would have said.
I just need to learn more about the unit and what the functions actually do. Not to mention, having a multimeter that is more accurate. I hope the one coming is accurate - considering it is being sold in the US, rather than in a Third World country.
I have (temporarily) disconnected it from the single panel, until I can get the other meter to check it with and / or the second panel installed in series. I will also look at Solar 2 if the calibration option doesn't work.
I really appreciate all your help, man. You went above and beyond, something I pretty well figured Midnite would do, to help your client. I'm sure, no matter what, it will be sorted out in the end.