I have been offered a 24 volt bank of brand new rolls batteries 1330 or 1350 amp hours, not sure atm.
The problem is these batteries have been wetup for over 12 months without a substantial charge.
Would they be toast or usable.
I am concerned about stratification in the cells as well as sulphation.
Should I leave them alone?
The cost is $3,000 and I can not afford to have duds.
Ideas please.
Russ
Well here are my thoughts:
1- Probably there will be no warranty do to the lack of charge? (I would call surrette and ask)
2- They may be sulfated? (Again I would ask Surrette there thoughts on these sitting for 12 months)
3- The same size bank of say Trojan L16s would be about $5,000
Personally I would tend to NOT buy used batteries unless they where a screaming deal or I was SURE of the history.
The batteries are brand new and at a Rolls retailer!
Quote from: russ_drinkwater on December 02, 2015, 05:56:03 AM...
... The problem is these batteries have been wetup for over 12 months with a substantial charge.
Russ
Hi Russ,
Try as I might, cannot process the sentence in the above quote.
Is "wetup" setup? Or have they been murdered? And, the reference to "substantial charge", is a bit unclear.
Was this part of a Demo system at the dealer, and had been kept charged, perhaps on Float ??
Do you know when these batteries were made? Depending upon the model battery, there are normally Date Codes on the Flag terminals of the 5000 series Surrettes, and often on the case on the 4000s.
Roughly, how deep is the discount being offered, compared to what you could buy fresh batteries for?
Thanks, Vic
Well if they are at the distributor than I would assume they cary full warranty and have been maintained while there
Quote from: Halfcrazy on December 02, 2015, 08:00:14 PM
Well if they are at the distributor than I would assume they carry full warranty and have been maintained while there
Best to get it
in writing!
The batteries have had acid in them for over 12 months now (ie.wetup as opposed to dry!)
They charge $900 for each 4 volt cell retail and they offered them to me for $500 a 4 volt cell (could be 2 x 2 volt cells in a poly tub as I have not seen them yet!)
So $3,000 cash is my buy price as opposed to $5,400 plus 10% gst.
For the same money( $3,000) I can get 12 trogan T105's 225 amp hours @ 6 volts.
So the trojans would be 24 volts @ 675 amp hours as opposed to the rolls at 1330 amp @ 24 volts.
I am in australia so things are a lot dearer here!
I was going to take my hydrometer and amp/volt meter with me and if the cells have a sg under 1.240 my thoughts are to forget them?
Just do not know what to do.
HELP!
What are they offering for Warranty? If they will stand behind them for X months (>24?) they must have faith in them, otherwise you re buying a lot of potential scrap lead...
Ask them if they will load test them while you are present... if they flinch..... they may be hiding something...
Hi Russ,
OK on the "wetup", this must be down-under slang ... have heard of things that have dried up, but never heard of wettingup, especially as one word.
And, if these are Surrette 4KS25 -- 1350 Ah four volt batteries, then, you can buy new ones for about about 67%m or so of what we pay for them in the USA.
It really all depends upon how these batteries were treated at the dealer. Also, the "more than 12 months", can be a bit troubling, as this could be 15 years, or so ...
Load tests need to be done carefully with batteries of unknown background, as, irreversible damage can occur if one is not careful.
Would suggest measuring SG of each cell, as well as each battery's voltage, before doing any load test, and then, carefully monitoring the battery voltage during any discharge test.
Seems like a good price, especially if there is a full Factory warranty which is 3/10 years in the USA.
Good Luck, Vic
Thanks for the replies. There is no mention of warranty on the cells. I have contacted Rolls and they said that the warranty would have to be worn by the dealer and the dealer is not offering warranty. So in that case I think I will steer clear of them unless they are a lot cheaper than 3k and I can test specific gravity and voltage as well.
I have talked to a local trojan dealer and I can get 16 x 6 volt t 105's 225 amp hour for $3520 ($220 each)
So I am going to go that way.
900 amp hours of storage and I will be taking less than 20% off them before switching back to mains at night.
With the 20 x 220 watt panels on most days I will have 100-150 amps at 24 volts going into them and most times I would never be drawing 10-15 amps at 240 volts out of them. So the arrays should keep them topped up well except for cloudy days.
The system is just a backup on part of the house for summer storms and blackouts.
I am a greedy turd as well, because we have 15kw's of grid tie systems here and I am trying to get as much back from the power companies as I can before my 44 cents per kw buyback tariff finishes.
The power company is paying for my standalone batteries as our grid tie systems have paid for themselves at the end of last year.
Sorry I just hate power companies and government the way they screw people over power and water etc.
I think you are making a wise choice. A reputable distributor would have maintenance records on them to satisfy Surrette so the warranty would be in full force. The fact they dont offer a warranty tells me they never took care of them for "more than 12 months"
The distributors never got back to me last week, so that means the batteries have been sold to some poor soul
for 6 X $900= $5,400. (Their retail asking price)
Oh well it was not me and that is all that matters. lol.
I bit the bullet and bought some trojan L16's.
Just 4 to start with and when I get a bit more cashed up I will add another 4 to the bank.
They cost $680 australian a battery, not sure what the retail is on them in the US.
Pick them up on monday.
Oh, on another note the system they quoted on did not go ahead so they still have the rolls batteries in their warehouse, lol.
Just an add note. Have had the trojans hooked up and working now for over 3 weeks. The system as it stands during the day runs 2 large fridges and 2 freezers (1000 liters between the two) and late arvo I switch the 2 fridges and the 800 liter freezer back to grid feed. The midnite reg does its job flawlessly and the batteries have not required any water addition in the 3 weeks. I guess they are not working that hard. The voltage in the morning is 25.1 volts before sunrise. The reg spends most of its time in float after approx 9am.
Anyone have the L16 batteries and can give me an idea what the best equalize regime is? Or just follow the trojan guidelines?
Russ,
I bought my set of Interstate L-16's for $208USD ea. retail seems to be about $275 ea here in California. Trojans L-16 here are about $320 ea USD when bought in sets. (6 volt 400 a.h.)
Hope this info is of use to you.....shipping is the whopper!
David
The L16's are between $680 and $900 each over here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I paid $680 each for the four I am using now.
Will be getting four more probably next month when I sell some cattle at the auctions.
Then I am sitting on my hands waiting for some ex-government cells to come up.
3000 amp hours at 2 volts.
If I can get hold of 12 of them I will be set. Have to find a new battery area as they weigh in at 250kg's a piece!
And are 30cm x 30 cm x 100 cm in size.
What kind of charge resources do you have Russ? Gonna need lots to feed 3000amp hours.
Ralph
Russ
Ouch!!!!!!! That shipping is a whopper!!! I do get mine street wholesale, I'm not a dealer but one of my friends is so I pay street dealers price, markup is about 33-60% here on the average. I was quoted 356 USD for Trojan Solar L-16's in San Francisco. I bought the Interstates floor sweeper L-16 batteries because they are produced in far greater volumes, they are the same batteries but labeled differently.
The best deal I found on CALB CA 400a.h. here is 550 USD so shipping from China is way cheaper down there vs shipping here. I think nobody is manufacturing LFP here or FLA in your area so the shippers reap great profits.
td
yes that another reason why i have been leaning towards lithium as well.If you do some PI work as well you will find that eve nRoolls are now made in china.
I have 20 x 220 watt hyundia 33.2 voc panels and 2 midnite clasic regs at the moment.
At this time I have half of them on the roof as I have extension to the roof planned depending
on cash availability. 4400 watts is a bit low, but I can not afford any more regs, lol. As our $ is so low against the US $ atm.
All my systems are 24 volt and I know I can run a lot more panels @ 48 volts, but that is not going to happen.
I have a source of good quality 2nd hand panels on the coast as a lot of people over are doing "upgrades" on their grid tie systems
and the panels are worth nothing atm.
Normally I buy them for $50 a panel and just take the whole lot. If you want to pick and choose they want $100 for a 200 watt panel.
As I plan for more grid tie here and also DC water pumping without batteries voltages etc are not a concern as I get at least 10 panels of each brand in the batches I buy.
I am a solar vampire, lol. I want as much of it as possible to make things cheaper to run on the cattle property.
More solar = less fuel used + less power bills + more feed for our stock + greater returns on our product
Freight on gear coming out of america is one thing that killed off importation of a lot of american made gear.
25-50% added to the cost puts most people out of the market unless it something that will make a lot of cash.
Anyone here live in Detroit?
Just curious if things are as bad there as what is reported?
To be fair I have bought a few lighter products such as wind turbine hubs and blades from Windy Nation when I playing with turbines.
Good products and I like Al the owner/father.
Mahendra: How true. Lithiums do not need those high charge considerations depending on bank size as would your typical Lead acid varieties. Did not think of that, but a perk certainly.
- Cloud
Hi Ralph,
I have 4,400 watts of solar panels and 2 mid nite 150 regs.
Not enough amps I know working on the 10% rule for charging, but more than enough for anything I would ever pull out of the banks.
If more panels come up I will of course grab another 10-20 and more regs.