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Charge Controllers and Clippers => The "Classic" charge controller => Topic started by: Jacotenente on September 02, 2016, 06:51:56 PM

Title: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: Jacotenente on September 02, 2016, 06:51:56 PM
Used a solder pot and a stick of 60/40 solder (non rosin core). Worked great. Had to file/grind a little to make a solid fit. See pics below.
Title: Re: Tinned 4 AWG welding cable pics
Post by: BobWhite on September 02, 2016, 07:54:10 PM
Quote from: Chris DIYer on September 02, 2016, 06:51:56 PM
Used a solder pot and a stick of 60/40 solder (non rosin core). Worked great. Had to file/grind a little to make a solid fit. See pics below.

Do I see three 4awg and one 8awg?
Walt
Title: Re: Tinned 4 AWG welding cable pics
Post by: Westbranch on September 02, 2016, 08:01:25 PM
Chris....OMG.... any count number on # of strands?

Walt.... cold it be 19 stand ?6?AWG ??
Title: Re: Tinned 4 AWG welding cable pics
Post by: Jacotenente on September 02, 2016, 08:28:04 PM
Quote from: BobWhite on September 02, 2016, 07:54:10 PM
Quote from: Chris DIYer on September 02, 2016, 06:51:56 PM
Used a solder pot and a stick of 60/40 solder (non rosin core). Worked great. Had to file/grind a little to make a solid fit. See pics below.

Do I see three 4awg and one 8awg?
Walt

The two on the left are TEMCo 4 AWG, the black NEG PV feeder cable is 10 AWG (not sure of the strand count), and the POS red on the right is TEMCo 6 AWG. It is same for all three Classics (didn't post redundant pics)...
Title: Re: Tinned 4 AWG welding cable pics
Post by: Jacotenente on September 02, 2016, 08:30:48 PM
Quote from: Westbranch on September 02, 2016, 08:01:25 PM
Chris....OMG.... any count number on # of strands?

Walt.... cold it be 19 stand ?6?AWG ??

I really don't know the strand count...it is TEMCo #4 and #6 welding cable. LOTS of fine strands. I did a video on my Channel...here a link to it if you want to see how I did it with the Solder Pot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH3SMjLpsxs
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: Westbranch on September 02, 2016, 09:11:18 PM
looks like  .... A lot...

6 AWG

Conductor Stranding: 259/0.01 in.
Nominal Outside Diameter (in.): 0.32
Max Amps: 115

4 AWG

Conductor Stranding: 364/0.01 in.
Nominal Outside Diameter (in.): 0.348
Max Amps: 150
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: asdex on September 02, 2016, 11:40:16 PM
Beware that these type of connections where a soldered multi strand is put under pressure can suffer from creep. The connection can become loose and burn. I have seen this happen a couple of times.
Cheers,
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: australsolarier on September 03, 2016, 02:38:20 AM
yes so have i.
Title: Re: Tinned 4 AWG welding cable pics
Post by: BobWhite on September 03, 2016, 08:14:58 AM
Quote from: Chris DIYer on September 02, 2016, 08:30:48 PM
Quote from: Westbranch on September 02, 2016, 08:01:25 PM
Chris....OMG.... any count number on # of strands?

Walt.... cold it be 19 stand ?6?AWG ??

I really don't know the strand count...it is TEMCo #4 and #6 welding cable. LOTS of fine strands. I did a video on my Channel...here a link to it if you want to see how I did it with the Solder Pot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH3SMjLpsxs

Very nice job Chris! I would agree you need to keep an eye on those connections being torqued down and believe you do. Ive never seen it done that way before so ill keep it in mind  :)
Walt
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: Jacotenente on September 03, 2016, 12:38:31 PM
Quote from: asdex on September 02, 2016, 11:40:16 PM
Beware that these type of connections where a soldered multi strand is put under pressure can suffer from creep. The connection can become loose and burn. I have seen this happen a couple of times.
Cheers,

Curious...what exactly is "creep".
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: Westbranch on September 03, 2016, 12:42:13 PM
I use the word 'flow' as the copper 'moves ' or 'flows' when compressed and the connection can become loose over time, hence why it is recommended to re-torque new connections  after 24 hours....
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: Jacotenente on September 03, 2016, 03:36:20 PM
Quote from: Westbranch on September 03, 2016, 12:42:13 PM
I use the word 'flow' as the copper 'moves ' or 'flows' when compressed and the connection can become loose over time, hence why it is recommended to re-torque new connections  after 24 hours....

Will do...
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: asdex on September 03, 2016, 05:07:21 PM
Creep is a function of the solder not the copper. Best to crimp with ferrules.
I grabbed some info from Google.
Cheers,
"Under constant load or stress, solder undergoes progressive inelastic deformations over time. This time dependent deformation is called creep and the associated strains that develop over time are creep strains. When the test specimen is subjected to a constant load, the initial, instantaneous response includes elastic and time-independent plastic flow. Creep then proceeds in three stages of primary, secondary and tertiary creep"
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: australsolarier on September 03, 2016, 06:42:42 PM
according to my research and experience, copper creeps also, particularly fine strande wire. and yes ferrules is the most professional way to do it. i think in some countries, germany for example, there are rules where you have to use them. it is a bit hard to get them though.
chris, look into them ferrules, at the least it will give you another opportunity to use your new super hydraulic crimper and ease worries and sleepless nights. i don't like the screw terminals in the midnite classic at all. for one thing they are to close together. and i would prefer eye terminals or lugs or what ever they are called. with a counter nut.
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: BobWhite on September 03, 2016, 08:14:45 PM
Quote from: australsolarier on September 03, 2016, 06:42:42 PM
according to my research and experience, copper creeps also, particularly fine strande wire. and yes ferrules is the most professional way to do it. i think in some countries, germany for example, there are rules where you have to use them. it is a bit hard to get them though.
chris, look into them ferrules, at the least it will give you another opportunity to use your new super hydraulic crimper and ease worries and sleepless nights. i don't like the screw terminals in the midnite classic at all. for one thing they are to close together. and i would prefer eye terminals or lugs or what ever they are called. with a counter nut.

australsolarier, have you found a good supplier for the Ferrules?
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: australsolarier on September 03, 2016, 08:20:09 PM
the short answer is NO
but check ebay and aliexpress
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: BobWhite on September 03, 2016, 08:26:50 PM
Quote from: australsolarier on September 03, 2016, 08:20:09 PM
the short answer is NO
but check ebay and aliexpress

I can do that, thank you.
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: Jacotenente on September 04, 2016, 09:36:53 AM
Curious why a couple of electrical engineers chimed in and said they liked it...and said "good job". I agree, Midnite should do separated lugs. As for "creep"...will keep an eye on them and trim/re-do when needed.
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: BobWhite on September 04, 2016, 07:22:51 PM
You halfta love engineers! Sometimes they can be confusing though, maybe overthink things?
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: TomW on September 04, 2016, 07:31:06 PM
Quote from: Chris DIYer on September 04, 2016, 09:36:53 AM
Curious why a couple of electrical engineers chimed in and said they liked it...and said "good job".

Much like getting a handful of electricians to interpret the Electric Code!

Seems no 2 will agree on the meaning of some parts.

Makes life interesting, at least.

::)

Tom
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: CDN-VT on September 04, 2016, 09:33:33 PM
Wurth is the one's I use in larger sizes . Pico to 1 gauge .
I'll see if I can edit in a link
VT

http://www.shopwurthusa.com/wurthstorefront/

http://www.picowiring.com/catalog.html

I also dropped the philistine screws / slot & updated them to torx

This is a close list :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives



I picked Torx over allen  since there is no metric or (USA) No one else  makes imperial enmeshment bolts .
Try finding Imperial / UNF /BFT type thread out of USA or Canada .. 


VT
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: australsolarier on September 05, 2016, 02:18:32 AM
ferrules and crimping explained here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os66cID30Ek
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: mike90045 on September 05, 2016, 02:52:44 AM
another vendor
http://www.ferrulesdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=FD&Category_Code=UNFERR

AND Just for the record
I don't like the midnight terminals either.  The Breakers on the other hand, with the screw that pinches a saddle over the wires, bunching them together, instead of trying to drive a screw through the middle, Much better wat to terminate, I wonder if they used those on the B17 ?

Solder/Crimp 
I hydraulic crimp only.  Solder, it's real hard to control where in the wire it will wick to, and where it stops, is where the wire breaks.   
All spacecraft power bus wires are crimp only.  Lots of tin/lead solder used on the boards, but not connectors.


Lugs, tinned, wires crimped:
www.tinyurl.com/LMR-biglug
Title: Re: Tinned two 4 AWG (and one 6 AWG) welding cable pics
Post by: elesaver on September 06, 2016, 11:50:50 AM
I also purchased ferrules from ferrulesdirect.com...both 4 AWG and 10 AWG.  (I actually thought I had gotten 6 AWG but had apparently written down the wrong number.  Rats.)  Anyway, I could not get the 4 AWG ferrule to fit into the Midnite Classic terminal block.  I do not have "professional" crimpers so that may be the problem.   I do not have calipers to check the opening size and compare with the ferrule sizes listed.  Again, that may be the problem.  Ferrulesdirect was great with their shipping speed and prices, by the way.  I'd order again from them.