Hi everyone and sorry for the long post,
I am a new poster and need some help with my Midnight Solar 150 controller. I have the highest Voltage set to 15.3 volts to charge my 12 volt battery system BUT the controller allows the voltage to go to 16 volts. I reset all voltages, bulk, absorb, equalize, to 15.3 volts but it still allows the voltage to go to 16 volts. The battery system is composed of six 6 volt golf cart batteries one year old in series/parallel to make 12 volts and my panel array is at 24 volts. I purchased this controller approx.. 10 years ago, I think it was one of the first ones out. It has never been firmware updated. It has served me well until now. I think maybe it cooked my batteries. Any ideas as to what I should do? Has anybody had or seen this before?
Thanks in advance,
Andy Rudovsky
it hasn't quite been 10 years i don't think, but maybe you have the bts set for too far in mv compensation on cold batteries or maybe it's right as i've seen mine go high on a few cold nights. if in doubt it's the bts and it's connected then disconnect it and see what it goes up to then.
Quote from: niel on January 17, 2017, 02:51:21 AM
it hasn't quite been 10 years i don't think, but maybe you have the bts set for too far in mv compensation on cold batteries or maybe it's right as i've seen mine go high on a few cold nights. if in doubt it's the bts and it's connected then disconnect it and see what it goes up to then.
Ok, great idea, I never thought of it. The temperature in the battery room was about 45 degrees f, but at night it went down to about 38f. Thanks for the reply.
Andy
Have you calibrated the controller input voltage?
Maybe check what a volt meter thinks the battery is at and at the controller?
Just what my first steps would be. It can be adjusted in the "tweaks" menu
Tom
Quote from: TomW on January 17, 2017, 10:24:45 AM
Have you calibrated the controller input voltage?
Maybe check what a volt meter thinks the battery is at and at the controller?
Just what my first steps would be. It can be adjusted in the "tweaks" menu
Tom
Thanks Tom, I did that and they were in sinc.
Andy
I agree with Neil, check what the battery compensated voltage is - there is a place to see that on the MNGP and also if you look at Local Status app under Config/Tech/ battery comp it will show it. The colder the batteries get , the higher the charging voltage will be. Depends on what mv setting you have in the temp comp setting too. I think default is -5 mv but you want to set it to your battery manufacturer specs. Without temperature compensation cold batteries will never charge up all the way and will be ruined - I learned the hard way on my first small system !
You meant that you only have the equalize set to 15.3 v ? That would be way too high for absorb and float voltages to be.
Larry
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on January 17, 2017, 11:55:47 AM
I agree with Neil, check what the battery compensated voltage is - there is a place to see that on the MNGP and also if you look at Local Status app under Config/Tech/ battery comp it will show it. The colder the batteries get , the higher the charging voltage will be. Depends on what mv setting you have in the temp comp setting too. I think default is -5 mv but you want to set it to your battery manufacturer specs. Without temperature compensation cold batteries will never charge up all the way and will be ruined - I learned the hard way on my first small system !
You meant that you only have the equalize set to 15.3 v ? That would be way too high for absorb and float voltages to be.
Larry
Thanks Larry, I reset all the various voltages to 15.3 volts to test if the controller still went to 16 volts. After it did I returned the voltages to their normal settings.
Andy
Andy, can you do an update? Since it seems to be 'stuck' I would do an update and see if that cures your problem...
there was a new version posted last night.
good luck. ;)
Quote from: Westbranch on January 17, 2017, 02:25:53 PM
Andy, can you do an update? Since it seems to be 'stuck' I would do an update and see if that cures your problem...
there was a new version posted last night.
good luck. ;)
Thanks, I probably should do that. I have never updated the the controller since I bought it. I guess I will have to read up on how to do it. Is it hard or tricky to do? It is in the mountains and no wifi available, so, I will need to download update to my laptop and install it that way. I guess there is a way to do this?
Thanks,
Andy
What type of computer do you have? I use a laptop with W7, the latest 2 or 3 versions can be done on W10. there are a few wrinklles depending on the version.
There are instructions to follow and you have to do it exactly to them or ... :o :-X
let us know which you have so we can comment further.
Hi Andy,
IMO, it would be very good to have Internet access available at the place that you are doing an Update of the Classic Firmware. Having access to this Forum can be a valuable asset if you need help.
The first Classic in use here, was from the first Production run (and available for purchase by the general public) was ordered just before Christmas 2011, and was shipped, Jan 2012, FWIW.
The later versions of Firmware have many added useful functions, so an Update should be a benefit to you.
IMO, Vic
Depends on your computer skill level as to how hard the firmware update is.
The new update software seems to work a lot better than the older version.
But you should make a printed copy of how to do a hard reset of the Classic using the jumpers - just in case you hit a snag.
You also want to know how to do the software reset known as the VMM which you will need to do after you do the firmware update. To do that you hold the left and right arrows in on the MNGP while turning the power on . It will erase all your old settings so you need to write down whatever you have in there first if you can't remember so you can enter them in again.
As others have said there will be a lot of new features in the updates if you have never done one before !
Larry
As others have said there will be a lot of new features in the updates if you have never done one before !.
Right! on that note do you have a WhizBangjr (WBjr)? if not, it is a very valuable addition to the Classic as it lets you have a much better view of how your solar project is performing...and to be more exact it tells you how much of your PV production (amps ) actually goes into the batteries, not just what the Classic sends towards the battery. Most recommended...
So before you head out into the sticks, can you get one for installation?...
hth
Quote from: Westbranch on January 17, 2017, 09:17:24 PM
What type of computer do you have? I use a laptop with W7, the latest 2 or 3 versions can be done on W10. there are a few wrinklles depending on the version.
There are instructions to follow and you have to do it exactly to them or ... :o :-X
let us know which you have so we can comment further.
I have a Microsoft Surface Pro 3 running Windows 10.
You will need a USB cable that came with the Classic.
Also download the latest Instructions for Win 10 from the MN web site. Both the Win7 and win10 Instructions have recently been update as MN is only providing the new Programmer package for the firmware.
Quote from: Westbranch on January 17, 2017, 11:53:13 PM
As others have said there will be a lot of new features in the updates if you have never done one before !.
Right! on that note do you have a WhizBangjr (WBjr)? if not, it is a very valuable addition to the Classic as it lets you have a much better view of how your solar project is performing...and to be more exact it tells you how much of your PV production (amps ) actually goes into the batteries, not just what the Classic sends towards the battery. Most recommended...
So before you head out into the sticks, can you get one for installation?...
hth
Sure can, I will order it first thing tomorrow morning, and thanks for suggesting it. I never heard of it before now and I am looking forward to looking it up tonight. Update, I ordered one tonight. I already have the shunt installed for the Bogart Engineering unit. The directions for the WBjr say I can use this shunt for hookup.
Andy
Quote from: Resthome on January 18, 2017, 12:54:48 AM
You will need a USB cable that came with the Classic.
Also download the latest Instructions for Win 10 from the MN web site. Both the Win7 and win10 Instructions have recently been update as MN is only providing the new Programmer package for the firmware.
Will do John, and thanks.
Andy
Quote from: Vic on January 17, 2017, 09:28:48 PM
Hi Andy,
IMO, it would be very good to have Internet access available at the place that you are doing an Update of the Classic Firmware. Having access to this Forum can be a valuable asset if you need help.
The first Classic in use here, was from the first Production run (and available for purchase by the general public) was ordered just before Christmas 2011, and was shipped, Jan 2012, FWIW.
The later versions of Firmware have many added useful functions, so an Update should be a benefit to you.
IMO, Vic
Your right Vic, mine is only about 5 years old. My memory is starting to go. Internet access is not possible where the Classic is installed so I will print out all the info before I start the update and hope for the best.
Thanks Vic,
Andy
if your batteries went to 38 and even at 45 degrees, this is far enough to push it up to 16v i think. at 45 degrees i calculate a jump of .96v. the batteries themselves may not have reached that 45 degree ambient air temp.
i would ask ryan or one of the others about your classic version before attempting a download as i believe they changed it a bit from the first ones out depending on how early your classic really is. they can verify if it's ok, but imo why risk it in any case if it's not broken? i've never updated mine and it's fine.
Niel, IIRC he has to do an update if he adds the WBjr, it was not supported by the early FW versions .... plus there are other refinements (*Fixes) , lots of them, in each new version...
Quote from: niel on January 18, 2017, 08:32:16 PM
i would ask ryan or one of the others about your classic version before attempting a download as i believe they changed it a bit from the first ones out depending on how early your classic really is. they can verify if it's ok, but imo why risk it in any case if it's not broken? i've never updated mine and it's fine.
I have never heard of any Classic models even from the first ones that could not be firmware updated. It is a wise thing to do because there have been a lot of improvements and bugs fixed.
I am thinking I got my Classic close to when they first came out - will have to look up the receipt sometime. I have always updated the firmware.
Larry
ok, i concede on the updates. i thought i remembered one of the guys at midnite saying the first ones had circuitry updated that affected the software.
do confirm the bts being the voltage rise, even though i'm near certain that was what you were seeing. never assume.
Quote from: niel on January 19, 2017, 03:25:22 AM
ok, i concede on the updates. i thought i remembered one of the guys at midnite saying the first ones had circuitry updated that affected the software.
do confirm the bts being the voltage rise, even though i'm near certain that was what you were seeing. never assume.
Neil - It would be a good thing to confirm with Midnite that there are no first generation Classics that are not compatible with firmware updates.
Larry
I was just looking at Grahams Classic Android app and on the Info page it says
Model : Classic 150 ( rev 4)
I have a newer Classic that also says the same thing
Check out Grahams Classic Android App if you haven't before - such a great display.
Larry
Um if it is 10 years old it would not be a production classic, Look on the right hand side and see if there is a barcode sticker with a number on it. If so report back that number before you do an update. I am pretty sure we have been selling Classics for about 7 years if my memory serves
Quote from: Halfcrazy on January 20, 2017, 05:45:47 AM
Um if it is 10 years old it would not be a production classic, Look on the right hand side and see if there is a barcode sticker with a number on it. If so report back that number before you do an update. I am pretty sure we have been selling Classics for about 7 years if my memory serves
The barcode sticker says CL00314. I misspoke, it was less than 10 years ago, but I think it was one of the first ones out. Can you tell by the barcode number if it is alright to update the firmware on my unit without any problems? I can't seem to get a definitive answer to that question. Update!! Found my receipt and it says I bought my Classic 150 on 3/23/2011.
Thanks for responding,
Andy R
READ your versions of software in the Classic & the MNGP ..
Get all the numbers & all of YOUR SETTINGS of where you have them set .
Make sure you have all recorded , IF NEEDED !!
VT
Hi Guys, I just heard from Midnite Solar and they said that if the Classic has a serial# then it will accept a firmware update. So, I will be updating my Classic 150 and adding the Wizbang to it.
Andy R
Quote from: andyrud on January 25, 2017, 12:50:01 PM
Hi Guys, I just heard from Midnite Solar and they said that if the Classic has a serial# then it will accept a firmware update. So, I will be updating my Classic 150 and adding the Wizbang to it.
Andy R
If you can get the Local Status App working with it first - you can use the app to save all your settings , and then use it again after firmware update to restore your previous settings.
It is on the Local Status app Config first screen settings - you will see Export Registers under place you put in serial number. Then use Import Registers to restore them.
Larry
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on January 25, 2017, 02:38:33 PM
Quote from: andyrud on January 25, 2017, 12:50:01 PM
Hi Guys, I just heard from Midnite Solar and they said that if the Classic has a serial# then it will accept a firmware update. So, I will be updating my Classic 150 and adding the Wizbang to it.
Andy R
If you can get the Local Status App working with it first - you can use the app to save all your settings , and then use it again after firmware update to restore your previous settings.
It is on the Local Status app Config first screen settings - you will see Export Registers under place you put in serial number. Then use Import Registers to restore them.
Larry
Thanks Larry. What settings are you referring too? Once I update the firmware does the Classic 150 think it is a first time install? Are all the settings reset to no settings?
Quote from: andyrud on January 25, 2017, 03:49:32 PM
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on January 25, 2017, 02:38:33 PM
Quote from: andyrud on January 25, 2017, 12:50:01 PM
Hi Guys, I just heard from Midnite Solar and they said that if the Classic has a serial# then it will accept a firmware update. So, I will be updating my Classic 150 and adding the Wizbang to it.
Andy R
If you can get the Local Status App working with it first - you can use the app to save all your settings , and then use it again after firmware update to restore your previous settings.
It is on the Local Status app Config first screen settings - you will see Export Registers under place you put in serial number. Then use Import Registers to restore them.
Larry
Thanks Larry. What settings are you referring too? Once I update the firmware does the Classic 150 think it is a first time install? Are all the settings reset to no settings?
Yes after you do the firmware update you will then do VMM reset and that will wipe out all previous settings and go to defaults so you will be starting out like it was new.
Larry
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on January 25, 2017, 05:23:19 PM
Quote from: andyrud on January 25, 2017, 03:49:32 PM
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on January 25, 2017, 02:38:33 PM
Quote from: andyrud on January 25, 2017, 12:50:01 PM
Hi Guys, I just heard from Midnite Solar and they said that if the Classic has a serial# then it will accept a firmware update. So, I will be updating my Classic 150 and adding the Wizbang to it.
Andy R
If you can get the Local Status App working with it first - you can use the app to save all your settings , and then use it again after firmware update to restore your previous settings.
It is on the Local Status app Config first screen settings - you will see Export Registers under place you put in serial number. Then use Import Registers to restore them.
Larry
Thanks Larry. What settings are you referring too? Once I update the firmware does the Classic 150 think it is a first time install? Are all the settings reset to no settings?
Yes after you do the firmware update you will then do VMM reset and that will wipe out all previous settings and go to defaults so you will be starting out like it was new.
Larry
One last question Larry, What is a VMM reset? You say I need to do this after update?
Thanks for the help
I think this was stated earlier, the order is important...
at Start Up: Battery first then Solar ... ;) :)
and just to be anal about it, even if it is not needed:
at Shut Down : Solar first and then the Battery.... ::)
I too am without internet at my controllers location. I don't see a direct answer so can I ask, Is it possible to load a firmware update into my laptop and take it to my controller? I'm not a computer wizard so if it is too involved I'll keep the CC as is. BTW I have Windows 10 on my laptop.
Hi littleharbor2,
Yes, using a Laptop to upload the FW into Classics is the most common method for Updates.
Here is the Link to the Classic "Software" page on the MN Solar site:
http://www.midnitesolar.com/firmwareReport.php?firmware_ID=9&firmwareProduct_ID=1&act=edit
At the very bottom of this page, are the instructions for Updating the FW using either Win7 or Win10. Generally, these instructions MUST be followed exactly.
Earlier, I had made a suggestion that doing an Update at a site that had Internet access was primarily for access to this Forum, if there were any issues with the Update process. Having phone coverage could be a good substitute for the net, if that is available at the target location of the Classics.
Believe that the Update process has become better-understood in the past year or so, and things have improved in making Updates more predictable.
FWIW, Vic
Vic, Thank you for the quick reply. So your saying that I can download the update into my laptop and then take it to the Classic and transfer it? I did one update before but had live internet and the Classic was in the USA, (whether that matters).
Quote from: littleharbor2 on January 26, 2017, 01:42:31 PM
Vic, Thank you for the quick reply. So your saying that I can download the update into my laptop and then take it to the Classic and transfer it? I did one update before but had live internet and the Classic was in the USA, (whether that matters).
Yes when you download the update it will have everything you need to do the firmware updates.
It is a good idea to save a screenshot of the instructions of how to do a VMM by both the button holding procedure and in case you need it by the jumper procedure. Those instructions are on the firmware download page.
Larry
Larry and Vic, Thanks again for the help. I have saved the pages with the directions.
Best regards, Littleharbor2
Quote from: littleharbor2 on January 26, 2017, 03:41:27 PM
Larry and Vic, Thanks again for the help. I have saved the pages with the directions.
Best regards, Littleharbor2
Let us know how it goes - the new Windows 10 software worked great for me when I updated recently - was better than the older update software.
Larry