Trolling and trolls have been mentioned recently in threads here.
Begin mini rant:
Trolls can be harmless or they can be disruptive and mean.
Trolls can be what I think of as "attention whores" meaning you never satisfy their questioning because every answer sparks an immediate new question. Not mean and actually harmless but may use the people resources of a forum and keep them from answering others.
Often masked as curiosity or learning it can wear folks down, especially when the answers include requests for more detail on what they have and what they are trying to do or links to information that the trolling party never follows thru on, or claims to not understand.
It is very difficult to know if you are being trolled or the person is just suffering a steep learning curve in an unfamiliar field of endeavor.
The hard truth is, some high tech subjects are truly not for the rank amateur.
Renewables and supporting systems can be in this category, spelled "this forum".
My fear is an individual with no experience can take advice I have seen posted, misinterpret it or simply blindly follow bad advice and suffer property, damage or personal harm. All because they did not understand something a knowledgeable person understands instinctively.
Personally, I enjoy helping folks sort things out but, much like the Glock 17 in my pistol safe in my dresser drawer, I would be dismayed if someone used it inappropriately and caused harm. Weird analogy but high energy system can be extremely dangerous if you don't understand the things that can go wrong.
Short a 48 volt, 500 Amp Hour battery bank and you may see large diameter copper conductors go from solid to vapor faster than you can register that it is happening.
Bottom line is that some folks should just hire professionals. I "can do" plumbing but I usually hire it done because it works out better.
Anyway, just wanted to dump that on the pile.
Not referring to any individual just some general comments.
Just from here.
Tom
Tom, I don't usually think about labels ....but , IMO, every now and then.....one picks up something in the post that does not sit right, gets under your saddle or straight out P.Y.O! Sometimes early on, other times later..
At that point my mind jumps to one of the new on the scene names for what we called 'attention seeking' but a better ones are ADD and ADHD.... you might also remember that twitchy, bundle of energy that got put in the back of the rows of seats in grades 1 - 6 and then turns into a geek in jr High ...
Well when we see it, like my (ADHD) godson telling me he will see me right after he goes over to so and so's place for .... and I know he will not appear for weeks... hope reigns eternal.
or a mongoose with a snake... jumping all over the place , staying one step ahead of the snake..
They are out the and we will see them occasionally, and hopefully not get bitten...
Ciao
To add to this, I can say that we are seeking a MASSIVE uptick in what we call "DIY" (Do It Yourself) installers and while I applaud them for doing there own work every one needs to understand there is a reason those of us that are licensed spend so much money and time on education and training. My point being is that IF you are going to install your own system (And I think that's great that you do as it makes you familiar with it and understand how it works) you need to be prepared to do a lot of learning along the way. Like Tom, I thoroughly enjoy helping teach some one parts of the job and see them succeed but there are always some that don't ask enough questions or do enough google searching and end up with a mess. I guess you can call that the cost of doing it yourself (I know I have done this a few times in other fields)
Forgive my take on it, but someone has to say it - may as well be a foreigner :)
How about the forum member who gives a perfectly reasonable and "correct" answer - that those of us who've done this stuff for years just "know" and fill in the gaps without needing them explained (No, don't stick your fingers into that switcboard, don't poke those two 4/0 cables connected to your 1000AH/48V battery in through the bottom of the inverter at the same time with the power on... etc, etc, you know the dumb things we wouldn't dream of doing, and don't need someone to TELL US NOT TO) - yet when someone without the errr clue experience half-reads a post, does it themself and blows their arm off, or burns their house down... in the current environment of litigate for anything and everything - is there a risk of being sued back to the stone age, just because you didn't tell them not to do (everything dumb)? Shades of printing "Caution: contents may be hot" on a hot coffee....
Westbranch, Ross & Ryan;
I think you guys said it better than I did!
I have no issues helping at all but, as you point out and I tried to point out, A pro just knows the silly little things to avoid while doing this kind of work.
You simply cannot transfer 50 years of experience through a keyboard over the intertubes.
And, frankly, A real pet peeve is that we offer reading to enlighten and the person simply ignores the advice and fires back another silly lazy question before they could reasonably have read the information offered that has the answer.
Its not the helping or even simple questions that irritates, it is the "You owe me an answer and hold my hand" attitude.
I have been herding electrons since I was like 8 or 9 years old and blew up my old man's TV power supply transformer trying to understand how it worked. I cant impart the 50+ years of experience since then, even in person!
I do, however, feel I owe a debt to those who mentored me that can only be repaid by passing on as much as I can. But that doesn't mean I owe any living individual that debt.
Not a rant, just the facts as I see them.
TomW
AKA Grumpy Gus :o
Tom said: ''
I do, however, feel I owe a debt to those who mentored me that can only be repaid by passing on as much as I can." (also well said)
Yes, the pay it forward concept with a bit of ' And what can I learn from this ?'
Well I for one am thankful for most advice given on this forum and I guess I have inadvertedly provided amusement to some! :o ;D
Quote from: russ_drinkwater on February 01, 2017, 03:29:28 PM
I guess I have inadvertedly provided amusement to some! :o ;D
Yeah, but spelling and looks don't count so much from a distance! :o
T
Hmmm...
Troll: Verb: 1. (informal) make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.
I'm not sure if this thread is actually about this term? Maybe a link or reference to the places in the forum where the term has been used would help.
Or start a new thread: "What is a DIYer?
Hi Tom, my problems started when I was three years old and we had a house fire which killed my younger brother and both my parents.
I was badly scarred as well plus smoke inhalation. Took years to get to the stage where I could get around and go out in public.
Being a bit of a freak show because of my appearance I only managed to get through grade 3 in schooling mainly because of the teasing and
cruelty directed at me. So I suppose my spelling is not the best, but I try in life to make the best of things!
Managed to do a science degree later in adulthood and so I am used to people poking fun at me about my looks, speech and other things.
Was a bit shocked at comment about my shortcoming here though :o :( :(
Quote from: russ_drinkwater on February 25, 2017, 06:44:26 PM
Hi Tom, my problems started when I was three years old and we had a house fire which killed my younger brother and both my parents.
I was badly scarred as well plus smoke inhalation. Took years to get to the stage where I could get around and go out in public.
Being a bit of a freak show because of my appearance I only managed to get through grade 3 in schooling mainly because of the teasing and
cruelty directed at me. So I suppose my spelling is not the best, but I try in life to make the best of things!
Managed to do a science degree later in adulthood and so I am used to people poking fun at me about my looks, speech and other things.
Was a bit shocked at comment about my shortcoming here though :o :( :(
Funny that I managed to get an entire size 13 EE boot to fit in my mouth.
Sorry, no intent to hit a nerve.
Internet spelling has always been a bit loose and I actually agree with Samuel Clements' quote:
Quote
I have no respect for a man who can spell a word only one way.
I never put much stock in looks, either, and have never seen you so that was a lucky shot if I was trying to hit that mark!
Apparently you missed my emoticons that should have indicated I was being facetious (now there is a $20 word!) or you're having a laugh while I scramble trying to unsay something inappropriate I previously said.
Or not.
Anyway. Hopefully you are just making me squirm. Never could tell with you Aussies.
Tom
All ok, I was just a bit taken back. ;D
Took a while to get over it :(
Things have kinda slowed down here, huh? Seems like north of 90 out of 100 posts are written by TomW in the forums? Could it be he may be taking things maybe a bit too personally?
I have gone back to the MX60, and it has been working flawlessly for a couple years. Using the Classic/Wbjr for telemetry only. I have added system capacity using five A/C coupled inverters and they play well with my two Magnum Ms4448's.
These days I am focusing on power storage more than on power conversion, and fascinating things are happening with the Gates foundation and Tesla and photosynthesis.
Quote from: laszlo on February 27, 2017, 12:31:57 AM
Things have kinda slowed down here, huh? Seems like north of 90 out of 100 posts are written by TomW in the forums? Could it be he may be taking things maybe a bit too personally?
Lazlo;
You caught me. :'(
I'm the Troll. :o
I do rank #6 in number of posts since the forum started.
But 90% is an unfair and gross exaggeration if you look at the actual numbers of posts
Forum stats:
33840 total Posts on Forum
1367 by me
I posted 1.001% of the total.
Just for accuracy
Only boB, Westbranch, Halfcrazy, Vic and dgd are ahead of me on posts as of today.
I guess you busted me, I am a closet post whore.
I am not, however thin skinned nor do I take any of it personally period. End Quote. Administrators are actually allowed to have opinions as well as post here.
Sorry it bothers you.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming..
Quote from: TomW on February 27, 2017, 10:40:26 AM
Forum stats:
33840 total Posts on Forum
1367 by me
I posted 1.001% of the total.
Just for accuracy
Hi Tom - why doesn't that look right to me?
1% of 33,840 should be around 338, and 1300 is 4 times that.
Taking out the trusty calculator I make 4.04%. (Still nowhere near the alleged 90%!)
(Just for accuracy, you understand!)
Quote from: RossW on February 27, 2017, 02:43:06 PM
Quote from: TomW on February 27, 2017, 10:40:26 AM
Forum stats:
33840 total Posts on Forum
1367 by me
I posted 1.001% of the total.
Just for accuracy
Hi Tom - why doesn't that look right to me?
1% of 33,840 should be around 338, and 1300 is 4 times that.
Taking out the trusty calculator I make 4.04%. (Still nowhere near the alleged 90%!)
(Just for accuracy, you understand!)
Ross;
Yep, accuracy matters. That is why a smart guy would have typed in the right numbers . My math sucks but I never claimed otherwise.
How are things down there?
Anyway, good to see you are still above ground!
Tom
Quote from: TomW on February 27, 2017, 02:59:30 PM
Yep, accuracy matters. That is why a smart guy would have typed in the right numbers . My math sucks but I never claimed otherwise.
Grin :) You haven't changed much :)
Quote
How are things down there?
Anyway, good to see you are still above ground!
But... but.... I'm BELOW ground! Remember?!
I'm in the process (after procrastinating for over 12 months) putting those 40 odd panels in the shed out into the sunshine. I'm making them as 4 linear arrays of 10 panels each, half facing north-east, half north-west. All will be elevation-adjustable via actuator. Planning to AC-couple them to my existing system. Also waiting on another 31kWh of LFP to help me through the coming longer nights with my ever-increasing energy demand.
Will post pics when I've got something to show beyond some posts concreted in the ground and a bunch of pipe and Z-purlin waiting to be assembled.
I submit the following link, as the start of some Troll activity. (desulphator thread)
http://kb1uas.com/mnsforum/index.php?topic=3626.msg35180#msg35180
"I'll know it when I see it"
Quote from: mike90045 on March 02, 2017, 02:46:53 AM
"I'll know it when I see it"
I absolutely know it when I smell it.
Tom