Is this possible to get the classic 150 to stay in bulk charge longer ... or even all day while the sun is out?
is there a Voltage Set Point to make the charger stay in Bulk Mode or anything like this?
I'd say most likely what you're after are the absorb settings. With the absorb setting, you can set a max voltage and time for your Classic to charge.
Without knowing the details of what you want to do, I guess possibly you're hitting float or float mppt?
I want it to stay in Bulk longer to Force more Maximum Amps to the batteries. If I understand absorb, the amps start to taper off as the CC senses absorption is becoming saturated. But my batteries are not fully charging and Im not sure if this time of year there is enough sun to even fully charge via solar.
Consult your battery makers recommendations for your specific battery...
Those are the safe limits you need to PROPERLY charge your batteries!
To do as you ask about runs the risk of 'frying' your batteries and you will have lots of scrap metal to take to the recycler...
Read up on thermal runaway...
Add|: should also mention that the inherent properties of a FLA battery are that as it approaches ~ 90% it resists accepting the full amount your charger is sending.
Quote from: Matrix on October 24, 2017, 07:38:52 AM
I want it to stay in Bulk longer to Force more Maximum Amps to the batteries. If I understand absorb, the amps start to taper off as the CC senses absorption is becoming saturated. But my batteries are not fully charging and Im not sure if this time of year there is enough sun to even fully charge via solar.
Yes what you say is true - when it goes to Absorb you it will hold the voltage steady and taper off the amps . But as Westbranch said if you don't observe the proper limits for your batteries then you will cook them . That is the reason we have charge controllers at all - to keep from cooking batteries.
If your batteries are not filling up there are some things to consider in the settings that you have. Do you have the proper temperature compensation set ? It could be that you also want to tweak your voltage settings up a bit for the winter to get a bit more charge in them. If you raise the Absorb setpoint it is going to keep the batteries in Bulk longer . The other thing to consider is if you have the battery efficiency set properly - that will effect the SOC percentage that you are seeing. Without knowing the type and age of your batteries it is hard to give good advice. If you have flooded lead acid batteries have you taken specific gravity readings to verify the SOC is really 100% when your meter says it is ?
Reality in the north with solar in winter is you need a generator to keep your batteries healthy and happy for a long life.
Larry
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on October 24, 2017, 01:42:57 PM
The other thing to consider is if you have the battery efficiency set properly - that will effect the SOC percentage that you are seeing. Without knowing the type and age of your batteries it is hard to give good advice. If you have flooded lead acid batteries have you taken specific gravity readings to verify the SOC is really 100% when your meter says it is ?
Reality in the north with solar in winter is you need a generator to keep your batteries healthy and happy for a long life.
Larry
I did a search of the manual and cannot find a thing about the battery efficiency setting.
As to my set up:
- REC TwinPeak 2 285w Poly panels in a 3S 3P array 2,610 watts (see the MidNite Solar Est attached)
- Today: No Clouds / full sun / 76* / 65% humidity / N East FL
- Angle of Panels 16* / Facing Due South
- Off Grid system with batteries / SW Conext 4024 inverter / MidNite Solar Classic 150 CC / All wiring correct or over sized
- System has been up and running for 1 week everything is new
Batteries:
- Trojan L16H-AC
- 4 batteries in series for 24v
- Production date: Oct 2017
- Placed into service: Oct 16
- Have done 1 EQ charge for an hour at 32v
- Fully charge SG is 1.277. This is what I am getting from Hydro
Batteries are currently at the end of an absorb charge this afternoon (3pm) after being discharged down to 79% over nite (SG was 1.239 - just over Trojans 80% mark). Current battery absorb volts = 29.6v / amps 4.7 at the CC / 2.4 amps at the whiz bang jr / Battery temp is 78.8 F.
I am seeing the amps in absorb start to level off at 2.4-2.6 range. So I am thinking that should be the End Amp set point?
Can you give any suggestions for Temp Compensation and Battery Efficiency settings?
At what temp do batteries start to "Cook", "Fry" and / or "Melt Down"?
It should say in Trojan info somewhere what the temperature compensation should be-3 or -5 mv/cell , look in manual linked below . You just put the number in and the Classic will calculate out how many cells to compensate for .
For the following you use the Whizbang amps ( or system amps as it is also called in Local status app ) . This is what is actually going into your battery .
Battery efficiency is something you need to play around with to get right on but you could start out with 92% . Set the Absorb and Float to whatever Trojan says they should be . What you want to do is when the batteries are run down in the morning - check specific gravity . Then as they charge up and you see them getting close to the point where you think the ending amps is leveling off then take specific gravity and see if they are full according to Trojan specs. Somewhere at that point should be about where the SOC is 100% - if so you have it all figured out so you can then set the Absorb Time to something kind of long like 3 hours and set the ending amps to the number you determined. Then watch it again the next day and check again that specific gravity is full at ending amps and the SOC is around 100% . The SOC is more of a guide than being perfectly accurate - though it can be pretty good if you get it all set right - you can tweak the efficiency setting % up or down until it corresponds pretty well with what you determined to be full charge.
You will need to let the batteries fill up all the way and then wait until next day to be able to use the SOC - and of course you will need a day that the batteries will fill up .
If I found the right manual for your batteries your Absorb should be 28.2 v and Float at 27v
Sounds like you have the Absorb setpoint on your batteries set too high .
http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/TrojanBattery_UsersGuide.pdf
Just found this and it has better info
http://www.trojanbattery.com/tech-support/faq/
Larry
Hi M,
We have (IND4V) and have had (L16HC) Trojans for years. If they are new, you will note in the literature that they say it will take ~50-100 cycles if they are new to reach their rated Ah capacity. I believe the temp compensation is the same -.005/+.005V per cell for every degC above/below 25 degC, but at 79 degF it will have little effect.
You should have to worry about frying, melt down... if you follow the spec's for your batteries, keep them watered, and avoid charging with temps (battery or environment) over 120 degF. I think WB's point is that you don't want to force feed them at too high a charge rate all day, and boil away the electrolyte. That's why they have 3-stage charging for FLAs.
They are pretty 'stiff' when new has been our experience and it may be that simple. I'll let others chime in on settings as we don't use the WizBJr, end amps, etc., as Aux2 is busy on other tasks for us.
Good luck. ~ks
Very great help. Thanks all. Looks like I have more testing to do. But am starting get it dialed in ... And it does seem the batteries are "loosening" up a bit. They are starting to perform as I had hoped.
Hi Matrix,
Am sure that you have the Data Sheet for your Trojan batteries:
http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/datasheets/L16HAC_Trojan_Data_Sheets.pdf
To allow the CC to spend more time in Bulk, as has been stated, is to increase the Absorb setting on the CC or other charger.
The thing that causes the battery charge current to taper over time, is the nature of the battery, called Acceptance. The CC maintains a constant voltage in Absorb, and the battery current tapers as it becomes more fully-charged (as you know). This is what makes End Amps work so well in ending Absorb at an appropriate time.
Regarding the correct Temperature Compensation, Trojan says that -- 5 Mv/C (per cell). So, on the Classic, set --5 mV in the Charge>Temperature Compensation menu.
Regarding the AH Efficiency of your Flooded LA batteries, 85% is a good place to start. Initially, both the Efficiency, and EA settings might change, as the batteries become broken-in with cycling (as kitestrings mentioned).
It is possible that trying to use EA to end Absorb, might be a bit of an issue, due to initial drift during break-in.
The stated 20-hour Capacity of your batteries is 435 AH. Customarily, one might chose an EA value of about 1.5 - 3% of 20-hr Capacity. Your new batteries are well below this, at this point.
It would probably be fine, if you set the Classic's EA to 00 A, and the Absorb timer to 2 - 3 hours for the first 10 - 20 cycles, while keeping an eye on SGs verses the point where the change in battery charge current diminishes to a steady-state value.
Believe that you are measuring the SGs of the entire battery bank, and recording these in your new Battery Logbook. In this book, you can note the date the batteries were placed-in-service, charger settings, SG readings for each cell, EQ voltage and time settings, when the battery bank was watered, the approximate amount of Distilled Water that the bank consumed in what period of time, and any other info on the battery bank behavior, changes to charge settings, etc.
To help keep track of SG readings, number each battery, and perhaps letter each cell of each battery, for example, battery 1-A, 1-B, ... 2-A, 2-B, etc.
Use your high quality glass Hydrometer to take readings, and RINSE, RINSE, .... AND RINSE again with distilled water when your SG measuring session is done ... would not let the Hydrometer sit, unrinsed for more than one hour.
More later, FWIW, Vic
Matrix,
Here is a good article on Measuring SGs from Surrette Battery, you may well already be familiar with the procedure, etc.
Just use the Trojan SG vs SOC table, instead of the Surrette table, as Surrette Solar batteries use a slightly lower fill electtolyte (1.265), and a slightly lower Reference temperature (25 C):
http://support.rollsbattery.com/support/solutions/articles/4347-measuring-specific-gravity
Vic