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Charge Controllers and Clippers => The "Classic" charge controller => Topic started by: santanaaviles on June 24, 2018, 01:54:23 PM

Title: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: santanaaviles on June 24, 2018, 01:54:23 PM
Go0d Day

     I'm new to Midnite charge controllers, use to have Outback but changed over yesterday since I really wanted the Whizbang Jr. The Issue I'm having is that at noon with full sun out My Classic 150 went to resting. Checked the RFR at it was 36. Did the Hardware VMM and it changed to RFR 22 since the controller defaulted to 12V when my bank is 48v. Did a Software VMM and it is still resting, RFR is just 111. Input voltage is between 65 and 66. Any advice on how to get the Classic to wake up? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting
Post by: Vic on June 24, 2018, 02:21:54 PM
Hello santa..,  Welcome to the Fourm.

With the Classis Resting,  that input voltage reading of approximately  65 - 66 V,   is the PV array's Voc.

That PV voltage is too low,   for almost any 48 V  battery type.   Perhaps you are running strings of two 60-cell PVs ?

It is possible that you could harvest some power,   by changing the Classic's Mode,  to  Legacy P & O.   But,   IMO,   you really need a higher PV input voltage.

If you are seeing the noted input voltage to the Classic,   in FULL SUN,   with NO Shading of the PVs,   perhaps your PVs might need to be configured for a higher string voltage.

Here is a Link to the Classic String Sizer:
http://midnitesolar.com/sizingTool/displaySizing.php

You could tell us the string configuration of your PVs,   brand and model number for them,   and your battery type,   etc.

More later,   thanks for some added info.   Vic
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting
Post by: santanaaviles on June 24, 2018, 03:23:58 PM
Vic

     Thanks for the reply. I had 10 panels of 275w in 5 strings of 2 with a VOC of of 38.9 and lsc of 8.87A. I have changed that top 3 strings of 3 and have order to more panles. AS for the batteries, they are 8 Troajn 6v at 265Ah at C20; however, the problem has changed. Upon noticing I had an older firmware although the controller was recently made I updated said firmware and now I'm geeting a Got Comms? Message and the Jumper based VMM won't work. Tried changing the unused address to 255 as I found on an old post but nothings seems to be happening. Any input on that? IF it helps, When I go check the fw version on the MNGP it shows MGNP 01/11/2017 but nothing on the Classic.
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting
Post by: Vic on June 24, 2018, 03:43:29 PM
Thanks santan...,  for the added,  if not confusing info.

First,   if you are running strings of three of those PVs,   AND,  you are seeing only about 65 volts coming into a Resting Classic,   with full, un-shaded sun,   then there may be a wiring error,   or similar (are there any other loads on the PVs?).

If the FW Version number does not show for the Classic,   then you should try reloading  it.

More later,   and thanks for the info on the batteries,   am sure that those are Flooded Lead Acid (FLA)  type,   and should do fine ...   later,   Thanks,  Vic
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting
Post by: santanaaviles on June 24, 2018, 03:46:22 PM
Upon further exploration on the forum I seem to have this issue but don't have any old firmware to go to.

http://midniteftp.com/forum/index.php?topic=1687.0
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting
Post by: Vic on June 24, 2018, 04:27:25 PM
Quote from: santanaaviles on June 24, 2018, 03:23:58 PM
Vic

     ...    Upon noticing I had an older firmware although the controller was recently made I updated said firmware and now I'm geeting a Got Comms? Message and the Jumper based VMM won't work. Tried changing the unused address to 255 as I found on an old post but nothings seems to be happening. Any input on that? IF it helps, When I go check the fw version on the MNGP it shows MGNP 01/11/2017 but nothing on the Classic.

First,  on the label on the left of the Classic case (or,   was it on the right?),  there should be a build Quarter (or month) and year,   what does this say?

Do you recall the Firmware version number that was in the Classic originally?

The most recent Classic Updater  has worked very well for most of us,   AND,   there have been very few  comments about Update issues for many months.

Here is some discussion of the newest Updater:
http://midniteftp.com/forum/index.php?topic=3772.msg36614#msg36614

In general,   following the Instructions for Updating Classics,  EXACTLY  is often important.

My previous comments about a possible  PV string wiring problem   should be ignored,  (as you know),  until the Classic  Update is performed successfully.

Perhaps Matt,   Kyle  of other MidNite tech folks  need to chime in,   here,   as I am incompetent ...   it has been just too long,  since updating Classic FW,   and any issues associated with it.   Matt,  Kyle,   and boB,  from MN  do often frequent this Forum  in the afternoon hours.

Many other members here know much,   much more than I,  regarding Classic Update issues.

GOOD LUCK,   Vic
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting
Post by: santanaaviles on June 24, 2018, 04:48:12 PM
VIc, Thanks again for your reply.

Build Date Q2 2018 which is why it was weird but I don't recall the firmware version. AS for updating the FW, everything was done as per the instructions for Windows 10 and the process seems to work (The updater show complete) but the mngp still show no classic rev version and still get Got Comms? Thanks for your assistance.
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting
Post by: santanaaviles on June 24, 2018, 05:17:49 PM
VIC I missed you second reply about the panels. I apologize if it was confusing. I had 5 strings of 2 panels when the resting issue was present. I changed it to 3 strings of 3 but could not try it due to the FW issue.
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting
Post by: Vic on June 24, 2018, 05:26:54 PM
Hi santana  ..,

Yes,   it can be easy to miss new posts,   when one in logged in for long periods,   searching,   etc ...

Just re-read one of the Threads;

In one case,   I had Update issues,   using the new Updater,   but   after unplugging the Network cable,   the update worked fine.   If you have an Ethernet cable plugged into the Classic,   you could try unplugging it  and re-try the Classic Update.

Good Luck,   Vic
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting
Post by: santanaaviles on June 24, 2018, 05:34:52 PM
Vic

     Tried that and still, it goes trough like it updated and when I check the rev version in the menus it is still blank which according to the literature is the cause of the Got Comms? due to incompatibility between MNGP and Classic Revs. Thanks Again for your insight Vic.
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting
Post by: ClassicCrazy on June 24, 2018, 06:32:50 PM
Quote from: santanaaviles on June 24, 2018, 03:23:58 PM
Vic

     Thanks for the reply. I had 10 panels of 275w in 5 strings of 2 with a VOC of of 38.9 and lsc of 8.87A. I have changed that top 3 strings of 3 and have order to more panles. AS for the batteries, they are 8 Troajn 6v at 265Ah at C20; however, the problem has changed. Upon noticing I had an older firmware although the controller was recently made I updated said firmware and now I'm geeting a Got Comms? Message and the Jumper based VMM won't work. Tried changing the unused address to 255 as I found on an old post but nothings seems to be happening. Any input on that? IF it helps, When I go check the fw version on the MNGP it shows MGNP 01/11/2017 but nothing on the Classic.

Did you update both the Classic firmware and the MNGP firware too ? You have to do both parts.
I would try installing  them again and see what happens

Larry
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting
Post by: santanaaviles on June 24, 2018, 06:45:46 PM
I did, with the latest release on the site 2123 and didn't work. Im trying with 2193 right now since that is the one that's supposed to go on it accoording to the seller.
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting
Post by: santanaaviles on June 24, 2018, 07:05:11 PM
MNGP version now 2154 and the fans turned on for a sec but still no CLassic FM. Is the screen on the classic supposed to change during update or does it stay normal?

Fan will turn on, Red Light will start Blinking and then the 3 colores red will go on, stay lit for a second, turn off, and repeat, after second tiem, fan will stay on but still not firmware
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting
Post by: ClassicCrazy on June 24, 2018, 08:51:12 PM
Quote from: santanaaviles on June 24, 2018, 07:05:11 PM
MNGP version now 2154 and the fans turned on for a sec but still no CLassic FM. Is the screen on the classic supposed to change during update or does it stay normal?

Fan will turn on, Red Light will start Blinking and then the 3 colores red will go on, stay lit for a second, turn off, and repeat, after second tiem, fan will stay on but still not firmware

yes that is the normal startup of the Classic for the fans and LEDs as you describe.
I don't understand your question about the screen on the Classic  changing or being normal ?
Also don't understand your comment about not having firmware ?

Larry
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting
Post by: ClassicCrazy on June 24, 2018, 08:57:46 PM
Quote from: santanaaviles on June 24, 2018, 06:45:46 PM
I did, with the latest release on the site 2123 and didn't work. Im trying with 2193 right now since that is the one that's supposed to go on it accoording to the seller.

Where did you find a firmware version 2193 ? I don't see it on the Midnite page .
I have the Beta voice firmware on mine -- it is
2154 6/26/2017 MNGP
2151 5/26/2017 Classic
as read on MNGP Classic 150 screen.

The Midnite page is listing 2126 firmware  - like I said  I have the beta voice version so that is why it is a bit newer than the 2126 version.

Larry

Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: santanaaviles on June 24, 2018, 10:09:57 PM
Larry, What I mean by the screen question is if the screen in the classic changes when installing firmware or does it just keep showing whatever was on the screen before starting the process. (Im assuming the screen wont change since the mngp is a separate component).

As far as having no Firmware, When I go to the status screen to check the rev version it shows the mngp version (2133 or 2154) but on the Classic it just shows dashes. I've tried installing the firmware several times to no apparent success since it still shows no Rev version and has the Got Comms? Message.

As far as the firmware 2193, I got that number from the android app before the controller went Haywire and from the midnite support FAQ compatibility list.
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: ClassicCrazy on June 24, 2018, 10:29:46 PM
Yes it should show the firmware that is in it .
If the jumper reset won't work ( I would recheck that you did exactly what it says and did not miss any steps) then you should probably open a ticket with Midnite and get help from their support staff.
The only problem I had in the past with a MNGP that would not update - the jumper reset fixed it. That was awhile ago and I have not had any issues since.
- I can't think of anything else to try.  Hope you get it sorted out and going soon .
Larry
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: Westbranch on June 25, 2018, 01:50:01 AM
Santa, that screen IS part of the MNGP.
Did you remove it from the Classic's body to remove the protective strip of plastic behind the 'button ' battery?
Was the blue cable disturbed when the MNGP was replaced?
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: KyleM on June 25, 2018, 11:52:19 AM
Quote from: santanaaviles on June 24, 2018, 10:09:57 PM
Larry, What I mean by the screen question is if the screen in the classic changes when installing firmware or does it just keep showing whatever was on the screen before starting the process. (Im assuming the screen wont change since the mngp is a separate component).

As far as having no Firmware, When I go to the status screen to check the rev version it shows the mngp version (2133 or 2154) but on the Classic it just shows dashes. I've tried installing the firmware several times to no apparent success since it still shows no Rev version and has the Got Comms? Message.

As far as the firmware 2193, I got that number from the android app before the controller went Haywire and from the midnite support FAQ compatibility list.

Santanaaviles,

When updating the Classic the MNGP screen does not change, when updating the MNGP it blacks itself out.
Also a few quick tips that you might not be aware of.
Always do the Classic first, then the MNGP right after it. DO NOT reboot the classic in between the updates. They are designed to be done back to back.
If for any reason the Classic  update does not go 100% right just do it again.  I personally turn off my PV Power when I am doing updates,
I doubt it will make any difference, but that is how I do it here.
I also turn off antivirus and firewall protection during this process. Any program that " protects"  your computer can at any moment decide it wants to block a connection and it will not always tell you it have blocked it. Windows 10 is really good at this.

I turn off my wifi connection, kill my antivirus and firewall protection.
Run the installer
Plug in the Classic and follow the prompts.
After I have updated the Classic and MNGP. I turn off the Classic wait 10 seconds then power it back up.
I verify that the update has been done then I do a VMM.

So far this process has worked every time on every OS from XP to windows 10......   yes even Vista   

Good luck out there.

KyleM


Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: Vic on June 25, 2018, 12:22:15 PM
Thanks KyleM for the clear,  concise  directions.

Should those be made Sticky,   somewhere,   here?

Thanks again,  Vic
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: mike90045 on June 26, 2018, 02:55:02 AM
Quote from: KyleM on June 25, 2018, 11:52:19 AM
....
Always do the Classic first, then the MNGP right after it. DO NOT reboot the classic in between the updates. They are designed to be done back to back.
If for any reason the Classic  update does not go 100% right just do it again.  I personally turn off my PV Power when I am doing updates,
I doubt it will make any difference, but that is how I do it here.
I also turn off antivirus and firewall protection during this process. Any program that " protects"  your computer can at any moment decide it wants to block a connection and it will not always tell you it have blocked it. Windows 10 is really good at this.

I turn off my wifi connection, kill my antivirus and firewall protection.
Run the installer
Plug in the Classic and follow the prompts.
After I have updated the Classic and MNGP. I turn off the Classic wait 10 seconds then power it back up.
I verify that the update has been done then I do a VMM.

So far this process has worked every time on every OS from XP to windows 10......   yes even Vista   .......

Which installer version is this ?


Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: Resthome on June 26, 2018, 03:04:00 AM
Hey KyleM, boB, Robin

How come the posted list of firmware and what is available on the Midnite site is so far out of wack?

Here is what I have in my notes for my 150. I verify this week when I return to the lake.

Classic Firmware : Classic 2151 5/26/17, Network 2122, MNGP 2149  5/26/17 MNGP

Can someone get the Midnite firmware udated on the Midnite web page to match what is being show on the support page.
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: FNG on June 26, 2018, 08:01:16 AM
This issue is known, I will mention it to Roy today and get him to update the website
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: KyleM on June 26, 2018, 11:00:56 AM
Resthome,

Yes we are chasing it down thanks for the heads up though.

We depend on you guys to keep us on our toes.   :D   

KyleM
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: boB on June 26, 2018, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: Resthome on June 26, 2018, 03:04:00 AM
Hey KyleM, boB, Robin

How come the posted list of firmware and what is available on the Midnite site is so far out of wack?

Here is what I have in my notes for my 150. I verify this week when I return to the lake.

Classic Firmware : Classic 2151 5/26/17, Network 2122, MNGP 2149  5/26/17 MNGP

Can someone get the Midnite firmware udated on the Midnite web page to match what is being show on the support page.

Thanks Mr. Resthome !  Last I knew, the firmware on our web site wan't quite up to date and needed a bit of  TLC.

Hopefully that will change real soon !

boB
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: Resthome on June 26, 2018, 05:29:20 PM
Thanks, guy. I knew you would get it straightened out.

I'd like to see the readme files with summary of fixes/changes stored with the firmware downloads. Helps make a decision on how fast you might want to apply the latest firmware.
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: santanaaviles on June 26, 2018, 10:42:32 PM
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on June 24, 2018, 10:29:46 PM
Yes it should show the firmware that is in it .
If the jumper reset won't work ( I would recheck that you did exactly what it says and did not miss any steps) then you should probably open a ticket with Midnite and get help from their support staff.
The only problem I had in the past with a MNGP that would not update - the jumper reset fixed it. That was awhile ago and I have not had any issues since.
- I can't think of anything else to try.  Hope you get it sorted out and going soon .
Larry

Thanks, working on that,
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: santanaaviles on June 26, 2018, 10:43:49 PM
Quote from: Westbranch on June 25, 2018, 01:50:01 AM
Santa, that screen IS part of the MNGP.
Did you remove it from the Classic's body to remove the protective strip of plastic behind the 'button ' battery?
Was the blue cable disturbed when the MNGP was replaced?

Yes MNGP was functional and good. No cable was good and MNGP is functioning normaly.
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: santanaaviles on June 26, 2018, 10:49:52 PM
Quote from: KyleM on June 25, 2018, 11:52:19 AM
Quote from: santanaaviles on June 24, 2018, 10:09:57 PM
Larry, What I mean by the screen question is if the screen in the classic changes when installing firmware or does it just keep showing whatever was on the screen before starting the process. (Im assuming the screen wont change since the mngp is a separate component).

As far as having no Firmware, When I go to the status screen to check the rev version it shows the mngp version (2133 or 2154) but on the Classic it just shows dashes. I've tried installing the firmware several times to no apparent success since it still shows no Rev version and has the Got Comms? Message.

As far as the firmware 2193, I got that number from the android app before the controller went Haywire and from the midnite support FAQ compatibility list.

Santanaaviles,

When updating the Classic the MNGP screen does not change, when updating the MNGP it blacks itself out.
Also a few quick tips that you might not be aware of.
Always do the Classic first, then the MNGP right after it. DO NOT reboot the classic in between the updates. They are designed to be done back to back.
If for any reason the Classic  update does not go 100% right just do it again.  I personally turn off my PV Power when I am doing updates,
I doubt it will make any difference, but that is how I do it here.
I also turn off antivirus and firewall protection during this process. Any program that " protects"  your computer can at any moment decide it wants to block a connection and it will not always tell you it have blocked it. Windows 10 is really good at this.

I turn off my wifi connection, kill my antivirus and firewall protection.
Run the installer
Plug in the Classic and follow the prompts.
After I have updated the Classic and MNGP. I turn off the Classic wait 10 seconds then power it back up.
I verify that the update has been done then I do a VMM.

So far this process has worked every time on every OS from XP to windows 10......   yes even Vista   

Good luck out there.

KyleM

Question about the back to back and do not reboot in between portion of the instructions: Is the turning the classic off and then on again that the installers tells you to do to install the update not considered a reboot? I ask because, at least in my case, after the classic is done installing and I press MNGP the installer will say to turn off the Classic and then turn it back on.  Sorry for the dumb question, new to midnite.
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: ClassicCrazy on June 27, 2018, 12:38:03 AM
Yes it is okay to turn the power off - you have to to do both updates. They mean you should not do the VMM or jumper reset in between the firmware and MNGP updates .  You only do that after both of them are complete.
Not sure if it was mentioned before but the firmware update goes pretty quickly in a few minutes. The MNGP update takes a lot longer to complete. So be patient with that one.
Larry
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: KyleM on June 27, 2018, 11:24:52 AM
QuoteQuestion about the back to back and do not reboot in between portion of the instructions: Is the turning the classic off and then on again that the installers tells you to do to install the update not considered a reboot? I ask because, at least in my case, after the classic is done installing and I press MNGP the installer will say to turn off the Classic and then turn it back on.  Sorry for the dumb question, new to midnite.

No such thing as a dumb question. Yes you will need to turn off the Classic when it asks you to do so.

We have had problems with users that do the Classic update and then remove the USB cable, VMM and lose communication with the MNGP.

If this happens it takes a bit of effort to get everyone talking again.   

KyleM
Title: Re: Classing won't wake up from resting (Classic has and will take no Firmware)
Post by: santanaaviles on June 27, 2018, 10:04:19 PM
Quote from: KyleM on June 27, 2018, 11:24:52 AM
QuoteQuestion about the back to back and do not reboot in between portion of the instructions: Is the turning the classic off and then on again that the installers tells you to do to install the update not considered a reboot? I ask because, at least in my case, after the classic is done installing and I press MNGP the installer will say to turn off the Classic and then turn it back on.  Sorry for the dumb question, new to midnite.

No such thing as a dumb question. Yes you will need to turn off the Classic when it asks you to do so.

We have had problems with users that do the Classic update and then remove the USB cable, VMM and lose communication with the MNGP.

If this happens it takes a bit of effort to get everyone talking again.   

KyleM

I see. That's why I asked thinking there was some other way I didn't know but that's how I did it both back to back and then VMM. Thanks for the reply.