Can anyone tell me how to work out/calculate the Low and Hight Battery Cut Out Set point in the Outback Mate, for a 24V battery bank connected to the 150 Classic Outback?
Cheers.
Sorry should have mention...I am using solar panels.
Do you mean you are using a an Outback Mate connected to Outback inverter and using a Midnite Classic 150 charge controller ? Not quite clear in your first post so that is what I am assuming.
You would use your battery manufacturer recommendations for charge, discharge.
But you also may want to not take your batteries ever to the very bottom of their range since very deep cycling can shorten their life . Some of that would depend on the amount of batteries you have , the size of your inverter, surge loads, and how quickly your inverter may respond to a quick surge load with a higher cut out voltage.
Personally I would set high and low for the inverter at the battery manufacturers high and low voltage thresholds. There are other settings in the inverter for charging which I would set pretty close to the same as what you put in the Midnite Classic . Some of that depends on if you want to let the inverter charge 100% of battery ever or let the Classic finish the charging .
Larry
What type of batteries are you using? What is the nominal battery voltage?
How large is the battery bank?
Do you have a Whizbang Jr?
Do you have the regular Mate or the Mate 3?
What OutBack inverter do you have?
I figured out that you were using solar panels with your Classic OutBack.
Thanks very much for the replies. Please be patient, I'm new to all this stuff : ;)
I have the Outback: VFX3024E, Model MNE175AL. Midnite Solar Classic 150-RCM.
Batteries; 12 x 2V EnergyCell FLA (Deep cycle)....I am unable to ascertain exactly who made the batteries without dismantling the battery box (which I would rather avoid).
Mate (not Mate 3)
How would I go about confirming if I have the Whizbang Junior.
Open up your electrical box where all the breakers are , get some good photos of the wiring , and post them on here .
Do you know how to read the set points menu on the Classic MNGP display ? The Classic Manual will show you how to go through and read the menus. Or there might also be some video's posted about how to do that .
You have 24v system so should have something like this in the Classic for your setpoints
28.8 Absorb
27.4 Float
30.0 Equalize
You will have to look through the menu and tell us what yours is set for . Look for what the Absorb time is and also if Ending amps has any value in it.
If you press the Status button on you MNGP a few times and get to the Whizbang Junior Shunt Screen and it is filled in with info then you have the Whizbang installed. The photos you take should show a shunt in the negative lead of your wire going to the battery that has the Whizbang board attached to it.
Larry
Larry
Hi Stafy,
The recommendations for setpoints from Classic Crazy Larry, are probably a good place to start,
BUT, if your batteries are Outback EndrgyCell batteries, they are not Flooded type. They are AGM, and will not want a standard Equalization,
https://www.wholesalesolar.com/9890050/outback-power/batteries/outback-power-energycell-200re-12v-agm-battery
Outback should have recommendations for charge voltage settings, and specify any temperature Limits to be used when charging them.
On the Outback Forum, there may be setting recommendations, or Threads, under the EnergyCell Topic:
http://www.outbackpower.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=44&sid=0db6828ac8ec1997121c27cb66efcca0
FWIW, Vic
Hi Larry and Vic,
*My Absorb rate was 30v I have reset it to 28.8v / Charger limit is 9.0 aac
*Float was 27v have reset to 27.4v
*Equalizer was already set to 30v
I have attached a photo of the status screen of the Classic; and my understanding is that we have a Whizbang board attached.
Thanks everyone for your input.
Your Whizbang screen seems to indicate you have no whizbang on your system
As Vic mentioned if you have AGM or gell battery you do not want to have that high of Equalize or perhaps not any equalize cycle.
Larry
Quote from: Stafy on July 13, 2018, 11:38:09 PM
Hi Larry and Vic,
*My Absorb rate was 30v I have reset it to 28.8v / Charger limit is 9.0 aac
*Float was 27v have reset to 27.4v
*Equalizer was already set to 30v
I have attached a photo of the status screen of the Classic; and my understanding is that we have a Whizbang board attached.
Thanks everyone for your input.
Hi Stafy,
Thanks for the added info.
Larry is correct, that pic of the display shows that there is NO WbJr.
Make sure that the Aux2 is setup for WbJr.
Here are the instructions for WbJr Setup:
http://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/Whizbang_manual.pdf
Check the WbJr Setup, step-by-step.
EDIT to add: Also check that the purple wire from the WbJr circuit board is in the correct position of the connector, and that the bare end (uninsulated portion) of the wire is all that is in the connector -- meaning that the connector is making contact with the wire's conductor).
Good Luck, Vic
First check that the system even has a shunt and Whizbang installed
Larry
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on July 14, 2018, 05:56:36 PM
First check that the system even has a shunt and Whizbang installed
Larry
That IS a very good point, Larry!
Vic
Hi Guys,
thanks for that...I watched a video on the Whizzbang Junior as I wanted to know what it does and why I need it.
It seems; its pretty important...Lol ...I will look into my system and check.
Thanks for the link... so I can purchase it.
Again many thanks for your insightful input... much humbled, and happy by your knowledge.
Regards Paul.
Hi Larry and Vic,
Attached photo of Outback. It appears I don't have the shunt or Whizbang jr.
I have already set our system up; and it appears to be running fine. If the only purpose of the WHizbang is for more information then I don't see a need for it.
Can you explain why I should install one?
Thanks Paul.
Batteries: 12 x 2v Energycell 1400 FLA
*Absorb time -1 hr
*Float time -1 hr
*Not sure yet how to find the ending Amps?
*Also if I fit the Whizbang is there a software download for Mac, as I see only windows available.
Thanks again Paul
Correction/ Float time is 2 hours
Equalise period 1 hour
The whizbang mounts on a shunt that is on the negative lead to your batteries. One one side of the shunt is all your negative connections from inverter and everything else. The other side of the shunt only has one connection to the battery. This way it can tell everything going in and out of your battery . The whizbang mounts on the shunt. Without it you can not tell how much power is going to your batteries and how much is going to your loads. You also cannot really use ending amps without the whizbang unless you had no loads. And you cannot have state of charge readings SOC without a whizbang. It is very much worth installing for accurate information about your battery and loads.
Larry
Regarding your settings - 1 hour Absorb time is kind of short . The Float does not have a timer and is in Float after the battery has reached Absorb time. Ending amps is more accurate in getting your batteries full .
This is from Midnite knowledge base and if you search the forums there are also quite a few discussions how to determine ending amps.
http://www.midnitehelp.com/
Lets first tell you what ENDAMPS is...
ENDAMPS is the current the Lead-Acid type battery will "draw" from the charging source when it is 100% charged and can take no more charge. It is this point if the current is not reduced the battery electrolyte and the battery will heat up. Too much and things can get ugly very fast.
The Classic has the ability to terminate the Absorb cycle using Whizbang JR as the ENDAMPS source. For this to work most systems will require a SHUNT and the WBjr option. The WBjr is a current measuring option for the Classic and KID charge controllers. It sends data on the amps in or out of the battery, it is important for things to work to have this and the shunt installed properly.
How to figure what YOUR battery needs for ENDAMPS.
First. lets look at what effects ENDAMPS.
#1 - Battery age
#2 - Battery condition
#3 - Battery type (Flooded, GEL, AGM, other)
#4 - Some battery manufacturers have this number for you, but be warned, for a NEW battery
The Best way to figure out YOUR Battery ENDAMPS is this way:
Take a day, turn off all LOADS while testing for ENDAMPS.
Set ABSORB TIME to something high, like 8 hours.
Remember what your time was, write it down.
Let the Classic (or KID) get to absorb, then come back after the time your wrote down has passed.
Lets say default 2 hours you are back.
Get a notebook, mark off lines every 10 minutes for about 2 hours, 12 lines like this:
:10
:20
:30
:40... and so on.
Go to the WBjr page, 3rd page on the STATUS BUTTON and watch the amps.
They should be a positive number between 1 and 20 amps or so, depends on your battery total Ah rating.
Write down the AMPS every 10 minutes for 2 hours.
You should see a point where the AMPS do not drop any further, your ENDAMP setting will be this number plus maybe 1/2 or 1 amp.
You should set your absorb time to be only about a hour longer that normal. ENDAMPS will drop the Classic to FLOAT at exactly the setting you put in. If everything is right, your battery will always go to float at 100% SOC.
You may need to do this every 6 months to a year as your batteries age.
Hi all,
My post seems to have stalled so perhaps it's time to get back to the original question;
*An explanation of what the Low battery cut in set point....I currently have it set at 25v....Why is this value?
*Charge 9 acc....Why?
*Absorb time limit 1 hr...why?
*Refloat set at 25v...why?
*Equalise time 1 hr...why?
*How are these values calculated?
*Are there any video workshops that cover these subjects? ...Note: not video's on the settings, but an explanation as to how these settings came into creation and how there values were calculated.
Quote from: Stafy on July 28, 2018, 05:08:09 PM
Hi all,
My post seems to have stalled so perhaps it's time to get back to the original question;
*An explanation of what the Low battery cut in set point....I currently have it set at 25v....Why is this value?
*Charge 9 acc....Why?
*Absorb time limit 1 hr...why?
*Refloat set at 25v...why?
*Equalise time 1 hr...why?
*How are these values calculated?
*Are there any video workshops that cover these subjects? ...Note: not video's on the settings, but an explanation as to how these settings came into creation and how there values were calculated.
Hello Paul,
Most of the above settings appear to be for an Inverter/Charger, perhaps one made by Outback Power.
Simplistically these particular questions might appear to be beyond the scope of this Forum.
Many of these settings need to be viewed in the context of the details of the system -- battery type and Capacity, the capabilities of any generator that might be used to charge batteries, etc.
Never have found a reason to need a Re-float time ...
In case these settings deal with an Outback inverter, here is a Link to the Outback Forum:
http://www.outbackpower.com/forum/
There are others who can probably help you with the setting details.
Will add, if you could make a Signature, that shows us the details of your system, this would help any of us who try to help.
Thanks for the added detail. FWIW, Vic
The times and voltages are representative of a "typical" battery, BUT, the battery manufacturer has the last word on these protocols.
Typically, Absorb would be more than 1 hour but maybe a very small battery might be 1 hour ?
The only reason that I know for Re-Float is that constant floating of the battery at much higher than rest voltage can prematurely age the battery.
That's why Outback does that.
boB
Quote from: boB on July 28, 2018, 07:50:14 PM
...
The only reason that I know for Re-Float is that constant floating of the battery at much higher than rest voltage can prematurely age the battery.
That's why Outback does that.
boB
Hi boB,
Thanks for explaining Re-Float.
We choose a fairly low Float voltage (Vflt) -- one that just barely keeps a fully-charged battery, fully-charged.
Have experimented with a yet lower Vflt, but felt that this value was just too low.
FWIW, we use 52.4 V on the main Surrette FLA banks here, Surrette has increased their Vflt recommendation to about 54 V, for batteries that are frequently-cycled.
Seems that batteries are much like living things -- we all are constantly in the (hopefully slow) process of dying. Finding what is "best" is a bit experimental.
73, Thanks, Vic
Chur, thanks all....seemed to have the set up running, and have posted a minor problem on the board suggested.
Many Thanks.