I have a problem with one of my Classic 150 charge controllers going into "Resting" and staying there until the next day no matter how much I draw on the system.
System:
(3) Classic 150 charge controllers networked with "Follow Me" enabled.
WizBangJr installed.
(3) Simpliphi 48V 3.8 kWh batteries
(3) Arrays, one 1000 watt (Tracker), one 1750 watt (OldUsed), and one 2940 watt (BigArray) - this last one is the one I'm having trouble with.
All controllers have firmware version # 2193 network version # 2122
What I have done to try to resolve this;
I first noticed the BigArray controller was always "Resting" this was my oldest controller, I checked all connections did ohm and voltage checks and everything seemed OK so I updated the firmware, it worked for a couple of days and then went back to always Resting. I thought it might be something wrong with the controller so I swapped it with my newest controller. Upon boot up the new controller went immediately into Resting. (The old one works fine on the old array.) The next day it started working but it was the last to wake up. It's always the last. It goes thru the charge cycle and goes into Resting mode and no matter how much I draw on the system, it won't wake up.
I have tried a hard reset, and a soft reset, I have replaced the wiring from the combiner box to the controller, I have checked, and double checked, and tipple checked all connections, made sure everything is grounded, etc. The resting codes are normal i.e. 5 and 111. I'm pulling out my hair here, can anyone help?
I will try to upload pictures and the exported registers.
It is because your lithium batteries voltage is so high the Classic doesn't think it needs to be charged.
That is what the Reason for Resting seems to indicate.
When you put the loads on the system does the battery voltage drop ?
That is common for the controller to only do one charging cycle a day.
When it charges in the morning , is it replacing everything that has been taken out ?
Do you have SOC readings using Whizbang ?
Are the two controllers in Follow Me mode ?
It isn't uncommon for one charge controller to charge and the other to not when the batteries are high in voltage like that .
I see you have ending amps set to 0 - is that the following controller ? ( assuming you are using follow me and ending amps).
Larry
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on April 14, 2021, 09:33:45 PM
It is because your lithium batteries voltage is so high the Classic doesn't think it needs to be charged.
That is what the Reason for Resting seems to indicate.
This is what I thought also at first but it didn't used to work this way. When I had loads on the system, it would either go into Float, Float MPPT, or MPPT as the other CC's do. I tried shutting the other controllers until about 50% SOC and it still won't come out of Resting.
When you put the loads on the system does the battery voltage drop ?
Yes, I ran it down as low as 51 VDC, (about 50% charged for these batteries) with the other CC's off and it still won't come out of Resting until the next day.
That is common for the controller to only do one charging cycle a day.
When it charges in the morning , is it replacing everything that has been taken out ?
Yes no problem there.
Do you have SOC readings using Whizbang ?
Yes but it's only accurate on the controller that's hooked to the Whizbang, the other CC's show 100% always. The Whizbang used to be hooked to the BigArray but I moved it to the OldArray thinking maybe it somehow could be the problem.
Are the two controllers in Follow Me mode ?
All three are yes.
It isn't uncommon for one charge controller to charge and the other to not when the batteries are high in voltage like that .
I see you have ending amps set to 0 - is that the following controller ? ( assuming you are using follow me and ending amps).
Ending amps are set to 4.5 but the system reaches Absorb set point for the 6 min. first.
Larry
Larry, the reason I started looking for a problem is, after working normally for several months after I upgraded to the Lithium batteries, the CC in question went into Resting for several days and nothing I did would bring it out. That's when I started with the firmware upgrade. Since the problem didn't move when I swapped controllers, I really don't think it's the controller but I just can't figure it out. Today I will just run the BigArray to see what happens.
Not to derail the thread, but what app are you using to see the data?
thx
I use both the Classic app on a Android device and the Local Status Panel on my Windows 7 PC. But don't use both at once! :)
Fred,
I don't have a classic so I'm shooting from the hip.
Is it possible that there is a voltage compensation value that is set to a wrong value and the second classic is resting because it can't send any power. Just a thought.
Wish you luck.
Ed
Quote from: jtdiesel65 on April 15, 2021, 10:48:57 AM
Not to derail the thread, but what app are you using to see the data?
thx
That is the android Classic Monitoring app - available on Playstore.
or there are also some other versions that will work with MQTT.
https://github.com/ClassicDIY
more info also in the Homebrew Software section of the forums
Larry
Quote from: FredB on April 15, 2021, 09:27:11 AM
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on April 14, 2021, 09:33:45 PM
Larry, the reason I started looking for a problem is, after working normally for several months after I upgraded to the Lithium batteries, the CC in question went into Resting for several days and nothing I did would bring it out. That's when I started with the firmware upgrade. Since the problem didn't move when I swapped controllers, I really don't think it's the controller but I just can't figure it out. Today I will just run the BigArray to see what happens.
Maybe this will give you some ideas ?
http://www.midniteftp.com/support/kb/faq.php?id=75
Larry
I was going to ask if one of your 2 or more Classics were running when the one Classic is resting.
Also, the battery temp sense can work over the Follow-Me. Make sure both Classics are not set to master temp sense of course.
Yesterday I turned off the input to the 2 other Classics first thing in the morning, at the end of the charge cycle, the BigArray controller went into resting. The battery voltage dropped below the float set point and it stayed Resting. As I was flipping between the controllers in the Classic Monitoring app when I got to the BigArray, it flashed on the screen "No Power, waiting for power source" with full sun and 67 volts from the array! I tried shutting it down and back on - no change. I turned on the input to the other CC's and they immediately came up in MPPT Bulk. Watching the rest of the day, the BigArray always said "No Power, waiting for power source".
Larry, Interesting link. I might use the BTS as described in "Setting the mV/degC/cell to the lowest value without flipping the setting to DISABLE is about all we can do right now. This allows the BTS (Battery Temp Sensor) to function and this allows us to set an emergency HIGH BATTERY SHUTDOWN temperature in the LIMITS MENU under the CHARGE Menu in the Classic. When this temperature is sensed the Classic will stop charging to avoid a catastrophe."
All other settings are as per the newest Simpliphi Power integration guide"REV20201125".
boB, thanks, the BTS it disabled right now, but it is set correctly on the CC as master with the other 2 set to follow.
I am running out of ideas here. I did notice that the BigArray is at a slightly lower PV voltage than the other 2. BigArray 67V, Tracker 68V, and OldUsed 69V. I wonder if I was to rewire the BigArray to 100V if it would make a difference? Just grasping at straws.
It seems you should use your digital volt meter and do some checking out your BigArray for faults.
I would check all the wiring, connections, breakers, etc. Then if there was still and issue I would probably open circuit voltage and short circuit current test each PV module individually .
That would rule out problems with your PV array.
I think you said earlier that you had swapped around arrays to controllers and they all act the same with this BigArray ?
Larry
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on April 16, 2021, 11:57:09 AM
It seems you should use your digital volt meter and do some checking out your BigArray for faults.
I would check all the wiring, connections, breakers, etc. Then if there was still and issue I would probably open circuit voltage and short circuit current test each PV module individually .
Larry
I like the way you think, I never thought about testing the panels! This morning I used my DC clamp meter to check each set of panels at the combiner box. I found one set that was about an amp lower than the rest and turned it off. I also set the 2 lower output controllers to .5V less (Absorb and Float) than the BigArray. Not sure which of these worked, but it's working correctly now. The BigArray is in float and the other 2 are resting. Code 38 "other charging sources appear to be active" This is as it should be. When I get more time I will figure out which it is and post the results here. Thanks for your help!
Fred, what charge controller again ?
"No Power, waiting for power source"
I don't think we have a charger controller that says this.
Maybe that was the "app" you are using.
So, did you have ONE charger controller with PV input and battery voltage BELOW the set point still not coming out of resting ?
boB
Quote from: boB on April 16, 2021, 03:08:26 PM
Fred, what charge controller again ? "No Power, waiting for power source" I don't think we have a charger controller that says this. Maybe that was the "app" you are using. So, did you have ONE charger controller with PV input and battery voltage BELOW the set point still not coming out of resting ?
boB
Yes it was the app saying "No Power, waiting for power source" and yes it was the CC I have named BigArray (on by itself) and it was not coming out of resting, but I think I can figure it out now. Please see my last post. Thanks for your help!
That is an awful low voltage for a 48v battery using MPPT, For example lets assume the lithium is at 52 you need 130% of that to wake up, So 67.6v. I am going to say the array voltage is just to low for MPPT charge controllers to work. I would suggest getting the voltage up closer to 100v
fng,
lifepo4 batteries have 56V bulk, so that 67V should be plenty enough.
i also have a resting problem in my 12V system.
there is a victron and a midnite classic and after float the midnite sometimes just keeps resting until such time as i manually rebulk. it just won't come out of resting. this is in legacy mode. on solar mode it does not do that. however when in bulk after a while it will reduce the charging rate.
all to do with lifepo4 and midnite classic charger. that is one of the reason sense wires are so important.
The terminals at the battery should be even higher than at the charge controller so it might have even less of a chance of turning on with sense wires.
The new CC's have external sense though.
If the PV input voltage is not high enough, external sense wires won't help it turn on unfortunately.
boB
ah yes, i am aware the new charge controllers have sense wires.
any idea when they are going to be on sale?
Quote from: australsolarier on April 16, 2021, 10:44:19 PM
ah yes, i am aware the new charge controllers have sense wires.
any idea when they are going to be on sale?
We are hopefully going to be able to take orders this summer or fall
Hopefully :)
Quote from: FNG on April 16, 2021, 04:27:59 PM
That is an awful low voltage for a 48v battery using MPPT, For example lets assume the lithium is at 52 you need 130% of that to wake up, So 67.6v. I am going to say the array voltage is just to low for MPPT charge controllers to work. I would suggest getting the voltage up closer to 100v
FNG, That's right! I knew this! Actually the Midnite Classic manual says "Keep in mind that an MPPT controller needs to have the open circuit voltage of the array about 33% higher than the highest battery voltage" But I forgot that when I upgraded from 24V to 48V. Thanks!
Quote from: FredB on April 17, 2021, 08:32:44 AM
Quote from: FNG on April 16, 2021, 04:27:59 PM
That is an awful low voltage for a 48v battery using MPPT, For example lets assume the lithium is at 52 you need 130% of that to wake up, So 67.6v. I am going to say the array voltage is just to low for MPPT charge controllers to work. I would suggest getting the voltage up closer to 100v
FNG, That's right! I knew this! Actually the Midnite Classic manual says "Keep in mind that an MPPT controller needs to have the open circuit voltage of the array about 33% higher than the highest battery voltage" But I forgot that when I upgraded from 24V to 48V. Thanks!
Yeah... If the PV input voltage is on the edge now, the system will work better with a wee bit higher input voltage.
Of course, it isn't easy to raise the input voltage a "wee" bit :)
Maybe by cooling it down but that isn't going to be happening during the next few months in the positive latitudes !
The "positudes" :)
Quote from: boB on April 18, 2021, 12:39:59 AM
Quote from: FredB on April 17, 2021, 08:32:44 AM
Quote from: FNG on April 16, 2021, 04:27:59 PM
That is an awful low voltage for a 48v battery using MPPT, For example lets assume the lithium is at 52 you need 130% of that to wake up, So 67.6v. I am going to say the array voltage is just to low for MPPT charge controllers to work. I would suggest getting the voltage up closer to 100v
FNG, That's right! I knew this! Actually the Midnite Classic manual says "Keep in mind that an MPPT controller needs to have the open circuit voltage of the array about 33% higher than the highest battery voltage" But I forgot that when I upgraded from 24V to 48V. Thanks!
Yeah... If the PV input voltage is on the edge now, the system will work better with a wee bit higher input voltage.
Of course, it isn't easy to raise the input voltage a "wee" bit :)
Maybe by cooling it down but that isn't going to be happening during the next few months in the positive latitudes !
The "positudes" :)
Well If I could just increase the output of the Sun by 33% that should do it. 8) I'm actually surprised any of the CC's are working, I need 56 Absorb Volts X 133% = 74.48V and none of the arrays output are that high. You're right though as it gets hotter the problem will get worse. Sigh, I will just have to rewire the arrays. I'm glad I made them all free standing and not bolted to a roof!
IF you were just a volt or maybe two shy of the Classic turning on, you "could" possibly, in a pinch, adjust the PV input voltage tweak so that it thinks the PV is a volt or two higher than it is... Not a good long-term solution and you don't want to change that voltage much more than that though.
Don't tell anybody I even suggested this though ! ;)
Problem solved! I rewired the arrays and all's good now. Thanks everyone!
Quote from: FredB on April 20, 2021, 10:41:19 AM
Problem solved! I rewired the arrays and all's good now. Thanks everyone!
Excellent !! Thanks for letting us know, too !
:) :) :) :) :)