Which E-panel will best match up with the Cotek ST1500-124 inverter (w/ Auto Transfer Switch) with the least amount of fuss?
This Inverter is also sold under the Samlex brand.
Link to manual PDF is at bottom of this page :
http://www.skingcompany.com/Power_Inverters-ST1500-124_Samlex_America_Cotek_24V_1500_Watt_Pure_Sine_Wave_Power_Inverter_with_Transfer_Switch-P313.aspx
We make the Lite E-panels for unknown inverters. The Cotek is not going to be able to be installed to meet NEC, so you may be able to get by with a MNDC175. If you need the AC bypass breaker, then the MNE175LT will do the trick. I am guessing at the 175 amp breaker size. I have not done the math.
Quote from: Robin on August 02, 2012, 06:51:38 AMThe Cotek is not going to be able to be installed to meet NEC .
Robin, can you please expand on this aspect..
thanks
Basically what Robin meant was there are no conduit boxes or anything for this inverter. NEC (Electrical Code) does not allow for exposed battery cables.
Ryan
Thanks for the clarification Ryan.
Exposed anywhere in the circuit or just at the entry to the inverter?
Wasn't aware of the 'exposed ' constraint.
Wow! I missed this. So my Prosine is no longer code compliant? When did this change? I thought only the AC side needed to be in a conduit. Where do they allow open cable or co I need a special battery now?
Exposed cables have never been allowed per the NEC. That is one reason you see home made plywood battery boxes. They run flex conduit from the inverter, E-Panel or what have you to the battery box. We make metal battery boxes and all of our E-Panels are capable of having flex conduit attached. You are also not allowed to have exposed batteries, AC wiring or anything like that. If wiring is at least 8 feet off the ground, it can be exposed. Hard to do that.
I was looking around and figured it wasn't correct, so with out covers the outback and magnum inverters aren't usable in a code restrictive enviroment.
I know this is off topic, and I understand, or think I understand "...If wiring is at least 8 feet off the ground, it can be exposed." not to be strickly true, as code changed recently making my 24 volt ground mounted array no longer code complient, as array voltages greater than 30 volts must have "restricted access"(I think that was the wording, NEC '08?) I took that to mean I could put a fence around the back of the array as there are no provisions for conduit.
So can I put the wiring in a restricted box or room so long as the disconnects are available? This sounds odd, but my CC, inverter and battery live outside. I have the electronics in a cabinet. Other than the battery cables all are in conduit, and I could run conduit to the power center, I have an old Trace(Pulse Enery) PC250.
I think we are currently pre 2008 in Missouri and I'm doing another ground mount array this year, but I understand there is a push to update to current NEC and even put other restrictions in Missouri in 2013. There is no enforcement in my county other than commercial use, but I'm worried about the future and would like to be code complient.
A bit of code I found the other day that I was never aware of-
NEC 348.12 Uses Not Permitted. FMC shall not be used in the following:...(3) In storage battery rooms...
Sort of an unusually specific requirement. It also makes approximately 97% of the battery based systems I have built non-compliant! I guess one can use LFMC but they sure are proud of that stuff once you get to the larger sizes...
For one of the first installs that I did, was going to use 2.5" FMC. The bend radius was nearly a "mile". Could not use it without placing the inverters on the ceiling. Have used EMT ever since.
In my area, would be difficult to keep Rodents out of outside batt boxes. Have seen many installations where the batt cables are OK, but the RTS leads have been eaten through -- completely unconnected. Not good for batt health. Conduit is one's friend. YMMV, Vic
Vic, do you have any pics of a NEC compliant install?
I've had zero problems with rodents in my batery box, the electrical panel box is autonimous(?) and off the ground. I do sometimes have wasps building nests in the elctrical box, I made it tighter this year and haven't had that problem either. Mice love my 8'x3'x3' tool box/bench thingy just feet away.
No nesting materials, just 2 gallons of distilled water and a forklift battery, cables go through the wood into the electric box, Still using 4/O welding wire. 5 years and counting, 6 in Nov...
(http://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab89/photowhit/Battery-box.gif)
Wb,
I do have some pics, but someone like Ryan who has been a real Pro installer for years would probably be a good bet for some pix. Will look for some, and could take a few of a recent project, altho, my older digital cam is amazingly blind -- it has a 10:1 optical zoom, and the F# must be over 100. Need to step up to a new one ...
Photo.., Glad that you have no Rodenta probs. Here, the mice will get into anything, except a cargo container, the Rats will gnaw into anything that they want to, and all of them will pack in any bedding that they need. Been a real problem the past two years. Rats will gnaw through #14 AWG stranded and smaller wire, and the rats and mice will readily eat phone cable/RTS cable in a heartbeat. The local area here is quite remote, and many of us have moved into the natural habitat for these little beasties ... goes with the(ir) territory. Keep cool, Vic
Just a couple of examples...
http://www.midnitesolar.com/gallery/galleryPhoto.php?menuItem=gallery&galleryCat_ID=1&gallery_ID=102
http://www.midnitesolar.com/gallery/galleryPhoto.php?menuItem=gallery&galleryCat_ID=1&gallery_ID=101
Quote from: Vic on August 13, 2012, 10:04:48 PM
For one of the first installs that I did, was going to use 2.5" FMC. The bend radius was nearly a "mile". Could not use it without placing the inverters on the ceiling. Have used EMT ever since.
In my area, would be difficult to keep Rodents out of outside batt boxes. Have seen many installations where the batt cables are OK, but the RTS leads have been eaten through -- completely unconnected. Not good for batt health. Conduit is one's friend. YMMV, Vic
Been there, done that, got the T shirt to prove it. Not only devoured the RTS cables but turned my batt box insulation in to nesting material.
Final solution have a dozen semi ferral cats !
Nigel
Quote from: Robin on August 12, 2012, 08:10:33 PM
Exposed cables have never been allowed per the NEC.
thinking this through a bit more, if one was to mount the inverter on the door of a cabinet with a small bit of PVC conduit or ?? through the door for the wires, would the 'enclosed' wiring inside the cabinet then be code compliant..???
ps for us Canucks this smiley ??? translates to eh?? (said ay?) ;) as opposed to huh ;)
The big question is the Cotek ST1500 UL Listed? If not it can not be installed in a dwelling to be code compliant. Safe and Compliant are 2 different things. Safe and common sense go a long way and if there is no inspection than you would be ok.
Ryan
Hi Ryan, found it is FCC, EC and E-13 rated ( apparently E-13 is for Canada where I live, but unable to get through to the Gov Canada web page *#$%^&).
This is for off grid install and no inspection or Code just want it safe... and as close to Code as I can reasonably get.
Not sure if it's code compliant but when I have enough $ ;), I like to install it this way with all vented holes screened.
Erik
Quote from: SolarMusher on August 20, 2012, 08:53:57 AM
Not sure if it's code compliant but when I have enough $ ;), I like to install it this way with all vented holes screened.
Erik
Sure looks good to me !
NICE job ! That pic should probably go up on our gallery !
boB
Erik, Ditto on the nice install...
What is the QO DC on the left for? I assume the box on the right is a 100 or 200 A disconnect or transfer switch?
Can/will you access the 110V wiring from another room, or behind the plywood? or exposed as is normal house install practice?
Interesting that you used West Fraser Plywood. They started ops. just north of here, in BC and there it is in PQ.
Eric
Hi Eric, boB and the gang,
It was a 48VDC system.
120/240VAC on the left (but when I installed it wasn't wired), on the right it's a SolarConverter 48/24 (this custommer didn't tell me first that he had wired all the floors for 24VDC) which feed a 24VDC centre for lighting, fridge and freezer.
It was a one day job with 6 hours drive, at the end of the installation (I was burned), I wired the Magnum to the E-panel and had a red light when I switched the power ... ??? Checked it quickly and found that my supplier gave me a 4024PAE inverter instead of a 4448PAE :o
Had to come back two days later to test and run this system... 8)
QuoteNICE job ! That pic should probably go up on our gallery !
Great, I'd like it!
Erik
boB, sorry for the FM60 but the Classic wasn't available at this time for us in Quebec :'(
My two last ones were with Classic 200 8)
Erik
Not only do you need to place wiring in conduit, but all the gear must have the proper listings. The original post here regarding the Protek (I think) inverter has a fatal flaw. The inverter has no UL or ETL or CSA listing. Even if you somehow make a shied and conduit for the wiring, it still does not have the proper listings. If this inverter was listed, it would have been listed to UL458, the RV standard. UL1741 is the inverter standard applicable to residential homes and such.
This stuff is complicated. I rarely comment on home owner installations. After all, they account for a significant amount of our business. We do try to make things clkear in the instructions regarding conduit and such, but rarely do I see photos of a home owner installation that is code compliant. Now that doesn't mean everything is going to go up in smoke. Europe does not require conduit for battery cables. Just use good jusgement and go for it.
Robin
thanks robin, I sent the Canadian distributor a query and he responded,
"the ST series are not being listed, because they are low volume. You are correct that the listing for the ST series due to the transfer switch would be UL458 and we do conform to the listing requirements, but the cost to have each model listed and annual maintenance is significant for UL, let alone cUL.
The higher volume models (S series & most of the SK series) are all listed."
Looks like it similar to your 3 phase SPD issue for testing.
ADD: PS, I opted for a MNE175LT , which came last week, now reading manual and figuring things out in my mind
Just copy SolarMusher. His install is very professional. Well all except that black art deco thing in the middle.
Actually, the Outback controller is a good unit. boB needed something to practice on before tackling his 7 year Classic project.
Robin "Not only do you need to place wiring in conduit, but all the gear must have the proper listings. The original post here regarding the Protek (I think) inverter has a fatal flaw. The inverter has no UL or ETL or CSA listing. Even if you somehow make a shied and conduit for the wiring, it still does not have the proper listings. If this inverter was listed, it would have been listed to UL458, the RV standard. UL1741 is the inverter standard applicable to residential homes and such."
I just wanted to point out that some of the prosine 1800 watt inverters carry the UL1741 (only 1 of the 3 I own) ...but to my knowledge there has never been a conduit "container" for them, the reason I said when did the code change, and perhaps it did at some point?
(http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/attachment.php?attachmentid=3773&d=1346751558)