I wanted to say "Nice Rack!" in the subject but it seemed vaguely inappropriate. ;D
Just lost a nice long post due to a file size error.
Anyway, we got this array installed over 2 days between rain days.
The hardware has been on a pallet in the driveway a few weeks awaiting good weather, permits and available labor happening in the right order and timing.
BTW, this array is 24 310 watt Trina modules and 7,740 nameplate watts. 38.5 feet wide and 12 foot high at the rear, 35 degrees fixed.
....
Tom are 1 and 3 the same pic?
NICE RACK!
Quote from: Westbranch on November 02, 2016, 06:22:19 PM
Tom are 1 and 3 the same pic?
just different ends of the rack (no neighbors house in third photo. Was too close to get it all in one frame.
what kind of racking did you use ? Looks like Ironridge ? Did you assemble the frame ( without the rails ) and then pour the concrete ? That is how various people have told me to do it .
Are those big trees shading your panels early morning ?
Larry
Ya the forum software BITES !
Post all type first & then attach .
So how do you guys see the pictures , I can't scroll & see the entire shot .
When I get off on WINdoze , I'll resize & re-post them .
VT
The rack is a Unirac ULA [Unirac Large Array] system.
We bored the holes 24" wide by 48" deep, assembled the rack in place using 3 rails to stabilize it and legs driven into the ground enough to hold them plumb. Used a transit to level the leg tops per specification on height.
The legs are common 2" galvanized schedule 40 pipe, in this case 9 21 foot sticks, 5 for legs and 4 for the horizontal pipes the rails attach to.
We installed the modules one at a time rather than attach modules to rails in columns and place them on the rack as some folks do. We did not have enough help to hoist an assembled colum into place.
Rear legs are 88" above grade, front are 37" above grade.
This pcture shows what was done when they delivered the concrete to the slip n slide approach to the rack:
Sorry, wrong picture. I can't find the one I was looking for.
Yep, there is some shade early and late and in winter from some leafless tree branches.
Plan got modified after equipment was purchased due to the city giving me inaccurate info on setbacks which put the array 20 feet further south and 10 feet further West than the Solar Pathfinder showed as my best location.
This is the pile of pipe we used..
I like that idea of pounding the pipes in to stabilize them. But when I mentioned this to one of the racking vendors at the energy fair he said that doing that could cause the pipe to start rotting out at the bottom in the soil and move up through the concrete. I am not sure if I buy into that though .
I know in ham radio installing Rohn towers I believe you are supposed to leave the bottom of the pipes open in sand so that condensate forming in the pipes can drain off. I have seen towers that I believe were split open on the bottom from contained water that froze in winter.
Even if that schedule 40 pipe was going to rot out probably would be in a long long time that someone in the future could curse you out for not doing it right - ha ha .
I grew up with solar in the old days when we just had a few smaller panels - no big deal putting them up on anything. Then I finally realized my dream and got a whole truck full of panels and realized " What am I going to put these up on !" The answer for me was some old cattle feeders tipped sideways - not ideal but they have not fallen over yet . My next rack will be more professional like yours though .
Larry
What are your plans for heavy snows ? I guess I would put my panels steeper at 45 degrees just so the snow can slide off easier. Though I guess if a person is around a soft broom with a long pole can help out in the worst snow cases. And gives a guy something to do .
Larry
Some points:
If frost drives 4 feet deep here it will be extremely unusual. Up north I always went a minimum of 4 feet on posts, footings, etc and 6+ feet for water lines.
The layer where the pipes end up at 4 feet is sand under clay / loam so drainage should be fairly good.
At 62, I won't be above ground when those pipe rot off unless I get past 100? Plus, you know manufacturers tend to give CYA Cover Your Arse engineering advice so I would not expect them to do otherwise.
I have done stuff in the past on installs that I would never consider now. And nobody to answer to like here with codes and neighbors bitching about having to look at the thing rather than my back yard.
Got a good soft broom and a length of PVC pipe to extend the handle for snow removal.
Again, the climate difference from "up north" to here should mean a LOT less of the white stuff. I think, I hope. We were at at 43.3° N there and at 41.7° here or 150 miles as the drone flies.
Being retired, I am usually here.
Now on to dealing with the city's idea of what we can do to grid tie. Being first it means they really are clueless so far other than boiler plate stuff they got online it seems. No resistance just confusion on how to go about it. At least now they are talking bi directional meter rather than 2 that looked like I would buy my own power before it actually got to the grid.
This project has kept me from getting bored.
Tom
Everything in life seems to be a compromise.
Hi, gal piping driven into the ground will rot/rust at a disturbing rate!
All piping needs to enclosed by concrete as this reduces oxygen contacts with the steel.
If it is hot dipped gal it is slower, but "duragal" which is a lighter plating process is, well, rubbish!
I have broken up concrete here at home that my dad had set black steel bolts in under shelter to attach wall framing to
and these were over 40 years old. Still like new under the concrete!
On the other hand I have concreted duragal posts in the ground and they have rusted off after 10 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Soil acidity has a big effect as well.
Errr, exceptional nice rack, I must say! ;D
Quote from: russ_drinkwater on November 03, 2016, 04:21:48 PM
Errr, exceptional nice rack, I must say! ;D
Exceptional nice rack's come in a few different values : them that are bolstered internally & over sold ,Cost value over time & the maintenance later ..
them that are using external bolstering just to look tougher, and those that are real HOT dipped GAL 's them are the ones , but the Nuts required to hold them in together is worth a good torque stick .
Nice work !
VT
Err...
I have created a monster :o
Yes, but a loyal and highly productive monster!
BFM! ;D
I heard that its a galvanic reaction that destroys galv posts in soil. If you fix a wire the base of it and bury that wire deeper, then the voltage potential changes in your favor... apparently. Source long forgotten, probably hippie era Ken Kern etc bare foot builders.
Buried the conduit today and submitted the intertie application only to have the inept city owned utility's Electrical Superintendent tell me the application document has changed for the 4th time since I started the process.
Being the first is, well, interesting. If he doesn't cure his cranial rectosis soon I will have to go over his head to the City Counsel and see if their "green" initiative is just bull. So far just trying to not rock the boat so we can get it finished.
I may just tell them to shove their intertie program and go for a stand alone system which was the original plan. >:(
Just the latest in this saga.
Tom
Hope it works out for you soon Tom. It is good to always have that battery based option up your sleeve !
Larry
Appreciate the support, Larry!
Thanks.
Tom
Australian bush motto.
Tell em nothing and take em nowhere! :o ;D
Well, did a friendly reached out to the mayor and councilman for my city ward explained things and the next day we got approval after the superintendent talked to my electrician and the PV installer, all pending engineers review, of course. All the hardware is on the pre approved list they have and my installers are both licensed and bonded, etc. so should slide through like grease through a goose.
Superintendent was mostly just lost. When I did that city officials end run I hoped that it would not cause more trouble. Time will tell.
Got the SB 7.7 inverter ordered and the city has the proper bi directional meter for the install.
Should just be a couple hours work tops to polish off the project once the Sunny Boy shows up. Mount it, pull some cable connect it up and commission it then get the inspector to sign off on it.
Life would be boring without some obstacles to hurdle. Now they want me to help them sort out a set of documents to make it work for others in town. No problem doing that.
Tom
How do they pay you for any extra power ?
Can you bank extra power for a year ? Or do you just get wholesale rate for any extra power you make ?
Seems like every utility has different arrangements and a lot of them are not that great for the producer.
I realize your array may not be big enough to make extra power over what you may use - but curious what their policies are .
Larry
Good work on the PV array! Your town looks like a peaceful place. The superintendent should be thankful to you for making a long-term investment and complying with all applicable regulations.
Right now, the policy is "no net metering" but they also say they will install a bi directional meter, reconcile monthly and pay their "avoided cost". Whatever that really means?
Nothing set in stone. The state utilities board is still trying to sort out the guidelines for this stuff and the local utility says they will follow those guidelines when they are released. Hopefully that will reconcile yearly so we never actually sell power at wholesale only to buy it back the next month at retail.
Here, only investor owned utilities are required to net meter. This is not an investor owned utility so they don't actually have any requirement to do it at all.
So, not a great deal for us but still better than buying batteries to kill [again] at least for now. The system is sized to mostly offset our usage.
It is not about personal payback for us it is more about being part of the solution rather than just another part of the problem. Reducing carbon , green energy and all that as well as an example to others. Since we sold the farm and had another financial windfall this year the tax credits will be a nice bump, as well.
I could have but don't don't really want a classic muscle car, a Harley or a bass boat or other old guy toys so I have a solar array in the yard. Probably best for everyone. Sets a good example.
I ramble.
Tom
Tom,I guess that you don't have enough yard to think about a heat pump furnace? Or are there any limitations on using 2 or 3 bore holes to extract heat from pumped/returned water?
Quote from: TomW on November 12, 2016, 10:57:52 AM
I could have but don't don't really want a classic muscle car, a Harley or a bass boat or other old guy toys so I have a solar array in the yard. Probably best for everyone. Sets a good example.
I ramble.
Tom
Friggin Greeny !!!!!!!!!!
VT
Right there also Buddy
Things have changed here as well.
We are on 44cents per kw grid feed and the newer installs are no grid feed!
You can make and use your own or battery storage for later over what you use.
Prior to that people were on 9 cents per kw grid feed in!
44cents per kw grid feed :o :'(
Ouch!
Shades of things to come! >:(
No no that is what they pay us for our solar feedin mate!
Last bill we got 3 months free power and ergon owes us $900 for the quarter!
They will send us a cheque near xmas time for around $3,000 for what we have sold to them.
What we use (ha ha what a joke) they charge us 26 cents per kw.
The way they work the system is really weird as we are being charged for our own power that we produce and then that is deducted from
our total solar output!
Another reason I made up my mind to build the standalone system.
The system (standalone) has dropped our metered power consumption by 12-13 kws a day according to the ergon graphs!
The peak they will buy off us is $12 of power a day.
Once I get the last system up and running we will hit the maximum return possible.
Umm, that will be my sweet spot!
Not a lot but better coming in than going out :o ;D
Quote from: russ_drinkwater on November 13, 2016, 03:43:48 PM
The way they work the system is really weird as we are being charged for our own power that we produce and then that is deducted from our total solar output!
Man, that's C-R-A-Z-Y!
So lets say you make 20 kWh for the day... and you use all 20 kWh of it.
They will charge you 20 * $0.26 = $5.20
And they will pay you 20 * $0.44 = $8.80
So you use ALL your own power, contribute NOTHING to the grid, and make $3.60 profit for doing so?
Where do I sign? :)
Agreed that math is weird .
One meter ? and is it a so Called Smart one ?
VT
The smart meter controls it all.
If we make 23 kws a day and use 20 kws then they charge us for the 20 kws @ 26cents.
Then pay us for the 3 kws @ 44 cents!
And that appears to be within the 24 hour cycle of the day.
We make 70 kws a day and use 33 kws before I added the standalone system.
So they were charging us for 33 kws @ 26 cents and then crediting us for the 37 kws @ 44 cents
within the 24 hour period.
Calculating the pluses and minuses in this way was the only way I could get the power bill stats to balance out!
The standalone system has now reduced our grid usage to below 20 kws per day (3 houses).
So our return has increased from $650 a quarter to over $900 a quarter.
Looking forward to that cheque near x-mas time! :o ;D
I can feel another 4 x L16 trojans coming up! (for sons system as I will lend him my trojans until they cashed up again)
Russ;
Just to keep from confusing folks we should all use proper terms.
As I am sure you know..
A KW [Kilowatt] is an instantaneous 1,000 watts of power.
A KWH [Kilo Watt Hour] is a 1,000 watts for an hour.
Electricity is sold by the KWH
It is a confusing point to some so probably good to keep our units accurate.
Just a fine point that makes a lot of difference when communicating about electrical power.
Tom
My bad it is kwh that is sold and bought via grid here!