Good evening.
First post, please be gentle :)
System:
8 TrinaSolar Ss265p-72
Maximum power 265w
Open circuit voltage 44.2v
Voltage at pmax 35.33v
Short circuit current: 8.2a
Current at pmax 7.5a
Max system voltage 1000v
Fuse 15a
Deployed in 2 banks, wired series parallel.
(panel 1 and 2 in series, 3 and 4 in series, those in parallel to controller a, 5-6, 7-8 on controller b)
Batteries: (4) 6v, in series
(Interstate 903hc-s, 430ah@20 hours each)
Questions:
1) Can someone confirm that I can start up the classic 150 charge controllers at a battery voltage of 12-72 volts?
(can't find it in the manual, I would assume yes, but you know what they say about assumptions, lol)
2) System was designed to be 12v dc, and the choice to run 2 controllers was based on output current (I think) per tech support.
I changed to 24v on the advice of my battery guy when he told me what a 3,000 watt 12v inverter wants for current draw.
Do I actually need the second controller with the change to 24v?
(I'm considering an expansion, and if these will all work on one controller, I can use different panels for the other... barring that, how many of these can I run on one controller with the battery voltage change, and does anyone have a source for more?)
I'm in the pacific northwest, on the water, so it doesn't get crazy hot here.
Thanks for reading, sorry for the long winded explanation, and I deeply appreciate any advice you can give a newbie :)
Thanks,
-Stone (s/v Ninaa Ootakii)
The thing to do is enter your PV in the Midnite string calculator and see what it says .
http://www.midnitesolar.com/sizingTool/
You can change the amount in series to find out different options.
It sounds like you are okay on your 72 volts with two PV in series.
The string calculator will tell you how many PV you can put in series without going over the Classic 150 voltage limit also based on outdoor low temperature.
It is better to be closer to the battery voltage than a lot higher since you get better charging efficiency and the Classic doesn't heat up so much.
It was a good idea to have the four batteries in series at 24v since it is easier to keep them balanced than if you did two series and two parallel for 12v.
And much smaller wire size needed to the inverter that way too.
Larry
Okay, this looks promising, and I feel kinda stupid.
I don't have numbers for
VOC Temperature Coefficient
Or
VMP Temperature Coefficient
So went with the defaults.
Number Of Modules In Series: 2
Number Of Parallel Strings: 4
Total Modules: 8
Rated PV Array Power: 2120W
Anticipated Array Power @ 98F: 2008W
Rated PV Array Current: 30A
Battery Charging Current @ 28.8V: 73.6A
VMP (Maximum Power Point Voltage): 70.66V
VOC (Open Circuit Voltage): 88.4V
VMP @ 28 F°: 79.4V
VOC @ 28 F°: 96.4V
Classic 150
Max Operating Voltage: 150
Max Non operating VOC (HyperVOC) @ 24V Nominal Battery Voltage: 174
Maximum Number Of Modules In Series: 3
Max Number Of Modules In Series (Using HyperVOC): 3
Max Allowable Output Current Per Classic Based On This Current Configuration: 94A
Max Allowable Wattage Per Classic Based On This Current Configuration: 2700W
Present PV Array Wattage Of This Configuration: 2120W
Design Check:
Max VOC: OK
Temperature The Classic Will
Enter HyperVOC -302.8 (lol)
Array Power (Wattage): OK
Classics Required : 0.8
At 12v that "classics required" turns into 1.6
Other options @ 28.8v:
2 parallel groups of 3 panels in series, (6 panels total):
55.2A, .7 classic 150's.
3 parallel groups of 3 in series, (9 panels total):
82.8A, 1 classic 150.
If I can find a 9th panel, that last one might be worth doing, although I'm going to be running them sealed, so that might be pushing it, and mounting it might be annoying (is it worth the extra 9.2a max?)
So it appears that I can do this reasonably off one controller.
Does this pass a sanity check from where you're sitting?
I do have 3 25W panels and a different 12v battery bank I can use the other controller on...
-Stone (s/v Ninaa Ootakii)
I would go with the first one with 8 pv .
Your Classic will be running a lot cooler with the lower input voltage closer to the 24v battery voltage.
Yes you can use your extra Classic for more power to your system with other PV - room for expansion which is always nice. You either run it independent or hook it up to the other Classic in Follow Me mode.
There is good info here
https://www.youtube.com/user/MidNiteSolar/videos
and here ( especially on using Local App)
https://www.youtube.com/user/ryanmidnitesolar/videos
and here
http://www.midniteftp.com/support/kb/index.php
and if you have an android get Grahams Classic Monitoring App from the Playstore
as well as other monitoring options depending on your level of geek skills in Open Source area of the Forums
Larry
So I finished up at 11:30 pm, triple checked everything, and powered the system up. So far so good. :)
I went with 4 series parallel strings on one controller.
Now I wait for the sun to come up, lol.
-Stone (s/v Ninaa Ootakii)
Quote from: Stone on December 09, 2020, 03:01:53 AM
So I finished up at 11:30 pm, triple checked everything, and powered the system up. So far so good. :)
I went with 4 series parallel strings on one controller.
Now I wait for the sun to come up, lol.
-Stone (s/v Ninaa Ootakii)
Great - let us know how it goes or if you have more questions.
if they are new batteries you probably want to break them in by cycling them down deeper than normal a few times to at least
50% I think. If you want your batteries to last very long time only take 20% out of them ( less deep you cycle them the more cycles you get ).
Also Vic ( the guy on here who knows flooded lead acid batteries very well ) would advise to number all the cells , get a decent specific gravity tester , and then log the readings in a book so you can track any changes from new over time. That way you can spot any cells that may need more equalizing than normal.
And Vic would also advise to rinse your hydrometer with distilled water often and well at the end of testing . Of course only use distilled water in your batteries.
Larry
So the best charge rate I've seen so far is 10.2 amps, but it's been cold and overcast.
... did a half throttle test of my inverter and battery bank today... Held up a 1500 watt space heater for 2 hours (78.8 amp draw per the whizz bang jr).
... tomorrow we'll see how fast it recovers.
Day 2 of test recovery.
I dug into the configuration, and made some changes.
1st: WBJ: changed AH from 400 to 435
(per the top of my batteries).
2nd: WBJ Changed efficiency to 85%, down from 94%
(WBJ manual says 80-85% for lead acid)
3rd: WBJ: "percentage of capacity change per degree C of battery temperature" from 0% to 1%.
4th: enabled "WBJ assisted charging".
... currently charging 28v, 14.5a.
... currently sitting at 333 ah out of 435.
I feel like I'm treading in dangerous waters here, and I need some advice.
Questions:
Batteries are 4 Interstate 903hc-s 435ah in series. (L-16-H, but I can't find them on interstate's site, and I've spent 2 days searching for specs, and Interstate themselves can't seem to answer the questions?)
Does someone have an "optimum settings" document somewhere for these, or a walkthrough? (barring that, did I do something dumb yet?)
If my panels are not capable of reasonably keeping up with the loads, is there an easy way to hook a large 24volt battery charger to this, so when I'm running my generator (power tools, etc) it will top up the bank at the same time? (If so, how/anything special?)
If I need to go with a big backup charger, any recommendations?
Also, is all-in-one-thread the best way to do this for this forum?
Thanks! :)
-Stone (s/v Ninaa Ootakii)
The best bet for charging is to have an inverter with charger feature in it.
You can get higher current independent 24v chargers but they will cost a few bucks .
Most all lead acid batteries are similar in their specs - though the construction may be a bit different . So I would just use the specs from a company like East Penn Deka .
look under Monoblock / Flooded to compare to batteries you have in link below
https://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/wp-content/uploads/Renewable-Energy-Charging-Parameters-1913.pdf
You can find other detailed lead acid battery maintenance info if you dig around on the East Penn Deka site ( like for the floor scrubber batteries) A lot of battery manufacturers put different labels on the same batteries so floor scrubber L-16 same as solar L-16 .
I am surprised you had 0 instead of 1% for that capacity change - I thought the Classic come default at 1% ?
I don't understand what you are referring to about Whiz Bang assisted charging ? The only place Whiz Bang comes into play in charging is to be able to use it for ending amps to go from Absorb to Float.
Larry
"Whizbang jr assisted charging" is what the section header is on page 5 of the WBJ manual, lol. But yeah, the end amps and which shunt (internal or external) to use.
Thanks for the info, lemme see if I can figure this out. :)
You have two ways of stopping the Absorb and going to Float.
One is just to set up time Absorb Time.
The other is to figure out the point where the batteries are full - it is at that point that the amps going into the batteries starts to level off.
You kind of have to watch your charging for awhile - it really helps to see it on a graph and you can do that if you set up Mymidnite and then graph System Amps , SOC , battery voltage.
When you see the amps going into the battery - and the SOC going up towards 100% you confirm that by taking specific gravity . ( you can also tweak your battery efficiency setting that way to match what you observe ) That way you can set up the Ending Amps where the batteries are full. You would set the Absorb timer a bit longer than needed . So whichever comes first - ending amps or absorb timer will stop Absorb and it will go to Float. Using ending amps is more accurate to what the battery really needs than just using absorb timer.
There is a section on how to determine ending amps in the Knowledge Base that I linked earlier.
Larry
Assisted charging eh ? OK.... and the manual says the mid 80% range ? I wonder if maybe we need to revise this ?
So, the efficiency figure for the WB Jr. settings are for Amp-Hour efficiency and not energy efficiency.
Amp-Hour efficiency is typically in the 90% range and not lower unless the batteries are really old maybe.
This is why the default is at 94%. That is what others do as well like the Bogart, a world-wide acclaimed battery meter.
Thanks for this info, Stone.
Quote from: Stone on December 13, 2020, 09:56:29 PM
"Whizbang jr assisted charging" is what the section header is on page 5 of the WBJ manual, lol. But yeah, the end amps and which shunt (internal or external) to use.
Thanks for the info, lemme see if I can figure this out. :)
Look in knowledge base for ending amps topic
http://www.midniteftp.com/support/kb/index.php
See attached photo
Larry
Quote from: boB on December 14, 2020, 12:20:22 AM
Assisted charging eh ? OK.... and the manual says the mid 80% range ? I wonder if maybe we need to revise this ?
So, the efficiency figure for the WB Jr. settings are for Amp-Hour efficiency and not energy efficiency.
Amp-Hour efficiency is typically in the 90% range and not lower unless the batteries are really old maybe.
This is why the default is at 94%. That is what others do as well like the Bogart, a world-wide acclaimed battery meter.
Thanks for this info, Stone.
Bob ,
Maybe they are talking about the ability to limit charging amps
Frequently Asked Questions
All Categories » CLASSIC CHARGE CONTROLLER - Features and Programming
CLASSIC - WBJR - How do I limit Battery Current based on the Whizbang jr. ?
The purpose of this document is to explain how to set up a current limit on the Classic based off
the WBjr current. This will only control the specific Classic that has the WBjr connected to it so
if the desire is to limit more than one Classic each Classic shall have its own WBjr and need
these adjustments made.
The Classic MUST have firmware version 2096 or newer.
Quote from: boB on December 14, 2020, 12:20:22 AM
Assisted charging eh ? OK.... and the manual says the mid 80% range ? I wonder if maybe we need to revise this ?
So, the efficiency figure for the WB Jr. settings are for Amp-Hour efficiency and not energy efficiency.
Amp-Hour efficiency is typically in the 90% range and not lower unless the batteries are really old maybe.
This is why the default is at 94%. That is what others do as well like the Bogart, a world-wide acclaimed battery meter.
Thanks for this info, Stone.
There has been this difference in opinion, ongoing for a number of years here, regarding the AH Efficiency of Flooded Lead Acid (Lead-Antimony) batteries.
Folks like me are seeing an average AH Efficiency in the mid-seventy percent range for these FLA batteries, and others note that this value should be in the mid-ninety percent range.
A number of battery manufacturers seem to state that this value is about 80-85%, and this is probably for complete discharge/charge cycles -- where discharges are to 0% SOC, from 100% SOC. This would represent the highest AH Efficiency.
Have cited the following Sandia Labs article, in the past, regarding AH Charge efficiencies:
https://xtronics.com/uploads/batpapsteve.pdf
As a side note, would agree that AH Efficiencies of AGM batteries are probably in the 90+ percent range, as there is little, to no gassing involved in charging AGMs. And the primary reason for lower AH Efficiencies for Lead-Antinomy FLAs, IS from Gassing.
But, guess that this is just my interpretation of what some FLA battery manufacturers say, the net of what was studied in the above article, and what we see from our FLA battery banks in use here.
Not my hill to die on, but just an alternate set of views.
73, FWIW, and so on, Vic . .
Thank you Vic !
I will have to look at those documents sometime. For now, people are at least free to choose.
I'm sure there are enough variables like age and actual battery capacity that change this.
And some flooded LA batteries are just different like whether they are lead antimony or calcium and how fast they charge and discharge.
I would probably trust the Sandia report having been there and seeing how they operate.
But in the end, the battery manufacturer has the last word.
Well, I clearly screwed something up, 'cause my available amp hours is going down, not up, and literally nothing is running except the classic 150 and the WBJ.
... that deka pdf was as clear as mud :(
I don't have the math for it.
These batteries are brand new, and I don't want to screw them up, but I can't find anything that even appears to be close for what they're supposed to be set to :(
I found the charging manual!
And literally all it says is
"The maximum constant current rate in amps should be approximately 20% of the amp hour rating of the battery."
*sigh*
Looks like the actual manufacturer may be johnson controls...
*googles more*
So I just hit 100% State of Charge, and the system clearly thinks my batteries are 364 ah.
*sigh*
Has the Classic done a complete Absorb cycle for 2 hours or whatever ? That is necessary in order to believe the
SOC reading on the main status screen. In the WB Jr. screen the SOC% would be flashing if you had not gone through a timed Absorb.
Do you have a battery hydrometer meter to test the electrolyte ? These are the kind with a water fill cap, right ?
Are these Interstate batteries ? Those are probably made by Johnson Controls except I hear that their golf cart
batteries are made by Trojan right now. Or they were....
Quote from: Stone on December 14, 2020, 05:38:34 PM
Well, I clearly screwed something up, 'cause my available amp hours is going down, not up, and literally nothing is running except the classic 150 and the WBJ.
... that deka pdf was as clear as mud :(
I don't have the math for it.
These batteries are brand new, and I don't want to screw them up, but I can't find anything that even appears to be close for what they're supposed to be set to :(
set your absorb setpoint to 28.8v absorb time to 2 hours Set float to 27.6 v
You won't go wrong with that .
Look again in the Deka info I posted - it says right there.
The other thing you mentioned was the maximum charge rate of 20% of capacity . You don't have to worry about going over that because I don't think it sounds like you have that much pv to do it anyway. Once it gets to Absorb setpoint it would cut back charge current anyway.
Larry
Quote from: Stone on December 14, 2020, 07:25:55 PM
So I just hit 100% State of Charge, and the system clearly thinks my batteries are 364 ah.
*sigh*
Hi Stone,
Couple of comments, first, if the batteries are located near the Classic, much of the reduction in Remaining Capacity, to 364, probably results from the batteries being cold. As, you have changed the compensation value of battery Capacity to 1%. The difference in temperature from the standard reference battery temperature of the typical value of 25 degrees C, to the 11 degrees C reading on the WbJr status page results in about 14% reduction in the nominal 435 Ah rating at 25 C. It is possible that the actual battery temperature is considerably different than that shown on the Wb readout (this temp reading is taken at the Wb circuit board) ... but 14% reduction of 435, is about 374.
Good that you found the manual for your batteries. If your batteries are Flooded type, the three top caps on each battery are easily removable, with a simple twist. Would guess that your batteries are Flooded.
There are quite a few details in managing battery based systems. Flooded batteries are quite tolerant to settings not being just right for the use that they experience. They do not like to run low on water, and when at a very low State Of Charge (SOC), cold temperatures can freeze the electrolyte, which will KILL them.
What is the Absorb time setting in the Classic? The End Amps setting of 14-sih Amps may be a bit high for two parallel strings of 435 Ah batteries, but, IIRC, Larry mentioned how to watch the WbJr battery current, during Absorb to help dial in that setting.
It IS good, that you are paying attention to your new batteries, they LOVE attention!
Later, Vic
Also, sometimes batteries when brand new do not have the full rated capacity until they've been cycled or run several times.
I think that Rolls says 100 or so cycles for their FLAs.
Also, one thing you will want to watch is that when you have the WB Jr. end the Absorb cycle, it MAY allow the batteries to NOT get a full Absorb cycle once in a while which is important so the batteries do not sulfate.
As Vic mentioned, make sure the Ending Amps is set correctly but you will want to ensure the batteries are allowed to get a good timed Absorb once in a while. Maybe once or twice or more per week ?
Okay, the manual for my batteries isn't actually a manual, it's not even a good joke.
That said, the Trojan L16HAC weighs the same and has the same rating...
It's numbers look reasonable to me.
I have 4 L-16's in series for 24v.
They're in an unheated space, and the WBJ is about 2 feet above them in the same space, and it says 11â°C.
Do these numbers look reasonable?
Hi Stone, Thanks for the added info.
The two tables that you posted, should be a good starting point, IF your batteries are Flooded -- these will have three easily-removed caps on the battery top.
You will want to get a good quality Hydrometer, to measure the Specific Gravity (SG), of each cell in each battery. Some Auto Parts stores will have a reasonable quality glass Hydrometer, with a squeeze bulb on top, and a small hose on the bottom. Find one that has NUMBERS for the SG values, NOT just colors, or colored balls.
MidNite distributes a good Hydrometer, the Hydrovolt (r), that is available from Solar equipment sellers:
https://www.solar-electric.com/midnite-solar-battery-hydrometer.html?msclkid=374af888e0fc1629911fa751e864e1cf&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20-%20All%20Products&utm_term=4588536901185467&utm_content=All%20Products
(an insanely long Link, which may not work ...)
More later, Vic
Quote from: Vic on December 15, 2020, 02:06:09 PM
Hi Stone, Thanks for the added info.
The two tables that you posted, should be a good starting point, IF your batteries are Flooded -- these will have three easily-removed caps on the battery top.
You will want to get a good quality Hydrometer, to measure the Specific Gravity (SG), of each cell in each battery. Some Auto Parts stores will have a reasonable quality glass Hydrometer, with a squeeze bulb on top, and a small hose on the bottom. Find one that has NUMBERS for the SG values, NOT just colors, or colored balls.
MidNite distributes a good Hydrometer, the Hydrovolt (r), that is available from Solar equipment sellers:
https://www.solar-electric.com/midnite-solar-battery-hydrometer.html?msclkid=374af888e0fc1629911fa751e864e1cf&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20-%20All%20Products&utm_term=4588536901185467&utm_content=All%20Products
(an insanely long Link, which may not work ...)
More later, Vic
Vic,
Aren't those voltages for absorb on the high side ?
Larry
Hi Larry,
IMO, the charge voltages depend on the SG of the fill electrolyte, and the plate construction.
Most HC(High Capacity) batteries have 1.280-1.285-ish SG electrolyte when fully-charged, which is a bit above most batteries, designed for solar charging.
The Temp Compensation value, may be an important thing that is still kind of an unknown.
Seemed, that in the absence of definite information, the Trojan voltages are not a bad place to start, when armed with a good Hydrometer.
More later, thanks Larry for all that you do for all of us here. 73 Vic
Will add a couple more things,
Hi Stone,
First question:
Do the tops of your batteries each have three easily-removed caps ? ??
The seller of those Interstate batteries that you have, does owe you specific Charging parameters.
Suggest that you ask them (ideally), for:
1. Charging voltages from Solar.
2. The Specific Gravity reading for full charge.
3. Finishing Current (also known as EA), for a complete charge. This is usually a percentage of 20 Hour Capacity.
4. The manufacturer of these batteries. (this might help fill in blank spots in the above).
5. Temperature Compensation value for charge voltages.
The above info will help you save some time and heartache in getting a handle on how to charge your batteries.
Later, Good Luck, Vic
lead acid batteries efficiency of 94%?
i think you are skating of very thin ice here.
then we have the absorption cycle which reduces available solar power.
then that high peukert factor.
highish self discharge.
and using some amps to just keep in float.
if all those things are considered, i think we will be lucky to get 80% efficiency. just my ten cents
Quote from: australsolarier on December 19, 2020, 02:34:20 PM
lead acid batteries efficiency of 94%?
i think you are skating of very thin ice here.
then we have the absorption cycle which reduces available solar power.
then that high peukert factor.
highish self discharge.
and using some amps to just keep in float.
if all those things are considered, i think we will be lucky to get 80% efficiency. just my ten cents
I think Vic was referring to higher efficiency for sealed lead acids - like agm and gel types. Mine seem way up there in 90's - they don't have so much loss of what comes out compared to what goes back in .
Larry
I finally got a response from interstate, and I'm mentally vapor locked on what to do with the information.
Is there a setup doc for this?
(explain it like I'm five, lol)
Hi Stone,
Thanks for posting the charge data, from Interstate.
These charge settings are for using an on-Grid battery charger. This is a bit different than the way that Solar systems charge batteries.
The previous chart did show the Specific Gravity of the electrolyte for full charge -- 1.277. This is good info, and will help you interpret the SG readings that you see when you use your quality Hydrometer to measure them.
Would suggest that you DO use the noted Absorb voltage, Float and EQ voltages, as listed. Use the Hydrometer to check on how each cell of each battery is being charger. Get a notebook and number each battery (number) and cell (letter) with a Sharpie. Record the charger settings, date, SGs amount of Distilled Water added and date, etc in this book. This will help you see trends that imply what you might need to change in charge settings ...
IMO, the 3% of 20-hour Capacity as the EA value is too high for batteries that are cycled lightly, as are almost all off-grid, solar charged batteries. Would suggest around 1.5% of C20, as a starting point.
More later. Keep at it. Again, it is good that you are paying attention NOW, early in the life of this battery bank. This is when it matters most! Many battery users only seem to pay some attention to them, when the "lights have gone OUT".
FWIW, Vic
Quote from: Stone on February 16, 2021, 01:45:34 AM
I finally got a response from interstate, and I'm mentally vapor locked on what to do with the information.
Is there a setup doc for this?
(explain it like I'm five, lol)
... AND, Stone,
The Classic Charge Menu on the Classic display panel, is where the charge settings are entered.
Most of the charge settings are also available on the Local App, that runs on a WIndoze computer, if you are using it.
In the Charge>Volts menu, you set the Absorb-29.6 Volts (called, Bulk, on the Interstate table), Float-27 V and EQ-32.4 V.
The above voltages are good places to start. Then, monitor the SG readings to see how well the battery is being charged, using your Hydrometer.
In the Charge>ChgTime menu you set the Absorb and EQ times that you desire. See comment, below.
In Charge>T-Comp you set the -5 mV value for the charge voltage Temperature Compensation.
The Absorb time needed, depends upon how deeply-discharged was the battery in the previous discharge. This your Flooded batteries this would usually be 1 hour minimum. Many of our systems usually need two hours, or more. The SG readings will help you know if the time in Absorb is sufficiently long. It is often better to change Absorb time, before changing the Absorb voltage when setting up the system, initially. Taking some SG measurements during Absorb, can help you tell if the Absorb time setting it too long. There is also another way to tell the approximate amount of Absorb time, will speak more of this, later.
Does this (mostly) make sense? Please do let us know how you are doing. Thanks, Vic
Thank you!
So
EQ: 28.6 Absorb 28.6 Float 27.2
Changed to:
EQ: 32.3 Absorb 29.6 Float 27.0
Absorb time is 2:00
EQ time is 1:00
Here's what it looks like right now:
Hi Stone,
Congrats on resetting charge parameters.
Looks like your batteries did not need much of a charge, given the battery charge current shown on the WbJr display, and the small number of kWh needed to get into Absorb. Thanks for those pics of the Classic display..
Do not recall the purpose of this system, has assumed that it might be off-grid. But, perhaps it really is for Grid backup.
Batteries used on backup systems, often do not need to be charged daily
One way of telling when your batteries are getting to a full-charge, is to watch the WbJr current change,
when the Classic is in the Absorb stage. As your Flooded batteries become fully charge this Wb current (Amps) stops diminishing. As this current becomes constant, in Absorb, you can infer that they are fully-charged. If you know when the Absorb stage began, you could use this info to set the ChgTime in the Charge menu.
AND, watching the above WbJr current, you could use a value just above that Wb current observed, as above to set the EA value in the Charge>Advanced>EA. This is probably best done after you have a few more weeks of experience with the system, and battery cycling.
As noted previously, Flooded Deep Cycle batteries generally require 50-100 cycles to break-un. After this break-in the battery behavior becomes more repeatable. You might need to force these discharge cycles, by placing loads on the system, at night, or with the PV input breaker to the Classic, switched OFF.
What is the purpose of this system? Thanks for the info. It does seem that you are getting familiar with the system, and many of its "knobs". Later, Vic
AND, Stone, would you please confirm that,
... "In Charge>T-Comp you set the -5 mV value for the charge voltage Temperature Compensation"?
This is an important setting.
Thanks, Vic
Sorry, my bad.
100% off grid...
80' Schooner that used to be a derelict shipwreck.
Switched over to 100% solar about an hour ago. (current surge is other battery bank chargers, freezer, computer workstation, etc... it'll settle out to about -7a in the next 20 minutes or so)
(pics)
" ... "In Charge>T-Comp you set the -5 mV value for the charge voltage Temperature Compensation"?"
I hadn't, but it appears to be the default?
(there also seems to be eleventy billion settings in here)
Whoops...
Quote from: Stone on February 22, 2021, 08:44:26 PM
Whoops...
Stone, that is a version of software that I screwed up on ;)
Please change that 13 degrees C to 25 degrees C !
OR, in case your batteries use a 30C default, use 30 but that SHOULD have been set to 25 on default !
Sorry...
Where do I change it?
(My concern was actually getting the bank below 50%)
Also, I have a large 24v battery charger I would like to connect to the same bank, so I can charge the bank from other sources at night (shore, generator, etc)
Negative to the shunt,
Positive to the bank?
Or something different?
Thanks!
Quote from: Stone on February 22, 2021, 10:09:17 PM
Where do I change it?
(My concern was actually getting the bank below 50%)
Also, I have a large 24v battery charger I would like to connect to the same bank, so I can charge the bank from other sources at night (shore, generator, etc)
Negative to the shunt,
Positive to the bank?
Or something different?
Thanks!
In your last picture, I saw 13 degrees. Change that to 25 degrees if your batteries are referenced to 25C which most batteries are.
"In your last picture, I saw 13 degrees. Change that to 25 degrees if your batteries are referenced to 25C which most batteries are."
... I have no idea where to change this setting. :(
Hi Stone,
Go to the WbJr display page, go to Setup (IIRC, it is the upper Right square button). Press it once or twice, you should find the Reference Temp setting.
It is in the WB Manual. Busy here, Later, Vic
Yes, from the main status screen, press the status button until you get to the WB Jr. screen.
Then do what Vic said. Upper right key we think to get to the reference temperature.
Change that to 25
It was at 25?
As an fyi, that battery bank is in the engine room, which is unheated.
Water temp outside the hull is about 7c.
Air temp outside is currently 2c.
WBJ says 10c currently.
Quote from: Stone on February 24, 2021, 03:27:28 AM
As an fyi, that battery bank is in the engine room, which is unheated.
Water temp outside the hull is about 7c.
Air temp outside is currently 2c.
WBJ says 10c currently.
Ahhhh ! OK. so that is the temperature on the WB Jr. board.
Forgot it had that little feature !
Had me worried there for a bit. :)
So, can I hook a 24v battery charger up to the same place the charge controllers are hooked up to? (I'd like to be able to boost my bank up when it's nasty outside)
Also, WBJ says that just the charge controller is drawing north of 2 amps all the time?
Quote from: Stone on February 24, 2021, 08:44:26 PM
Had me worried there for a bit. :)
So, can I hook a 24v battery charger up to the same place the charge controllers are hooked up to? (I'd like to be able to boost my bank up when it's nasty outside)
Also, WBJ says that just the charge controller is drawing north of 2 amps all the time?
Yes. you can do that. Connect the external charger to the battery.
So, 2 amps ? That would be 50 watts. 25 watts per Classic. You do have two Classics, right ?
That would be way more than a Classic draws at night. You must have something other than just charge controllers connected to the battery ?
An inverter, maybe ? Or something else ?
With the inverter turned off, this is what WBJ shows me after dark. It goes to -2.1 when the inverter is in standby v.s. off.
It turns out that I only needed one controller, so the other is currently disconnected, waiting on more panels.
If I understand this correctly, I'm losing 24 amp hours at night, simply because the controller exists, and that seems weird to me, so I'm guessing I missed something along the way?
Quote from: Stone on February 26, 2021, 11:29:39 PM
With the inverter turned off, this is what WBJ shows me after dark. It goes to -2.1 when the inverter is in standby v.s. off.
It turns out that I only needed one controller, so the other is currently disconnected, waiting on more panels.
If I understand this correctly, I'm losing 24 amp hours at night, simply because the controller exists, and that seems weird to me, so I'm guessing I missed something along the way?
What kind of inverter ?
You say that is the only thing wired up to the battery is the controller and the inverter ?
Do you have a fuse or breaker on the inverter ? Turn off breaker or pull fuse and see if the amp draw goes down . Then you will know if the inverter is drawing the power even if it is off.
Larry
The regular Classic as I remember CAN draw like, 5 watts when off. So two Classics would be around 10 watts. Maybe 11W ?
So, for current that would be around 10W / 25V = 0.4 amps. Heck, let's just double it and say that the Classic draws 10W each which would be almost twice as much as I have ever seen (I've seen maybe 6 watts at most) unless something has changed. SO say...
20W / 25V = 0.8 amps.
Heck again. Just round it up to 1.0 amps.
1.0 amp hour times say, 12 hours for equinox would be 12 amp-hours. Should be more like 6 amp hours at most.
It has to be the inverter idle ? Unless maybe the WB Jr. is not reading correctly or the Classic's draw has changed significantly ?
All of these pieces of electronics draw power even when they are off. Not disconnected, but off and ready to be turned on. Their auxiliary power supplies and displays and microprocessors etc. all contribute.
I am really interested in what is going on though.
i am waiting for stone to clarify his 2A vampire draw too. i also suspected his inverter.
I'll check it tonight after the sub goes down.
... If the WBJ is up on the display, wouldn't that mean the classic is on?
Quote from: boB on February 27, 2021, 12:04:59 AM
The regular Classic as I remember CAN draw like, 5 watts when off. So two Classics would be around 10 watts. Maybe 11W ?
So, for current that would be around 10W / 25V = 0.4 amps. Heck, let's just double it and say that the Classic draws 10W each which would be almost twice as much as I have ever seen (I've seen maybe 6 watts at most) unless something has changed. SO say...
20W / 25V = 0.8 amps.
Heck again. Just round it up to 1.0 amps.
1.0 amp hour times say, 12 hours for equinox would be 12 amp-hours. Should be more like 6 amp hours at most.
It has to be the inverter idle ? Unless maybe the WB Jr. is not reading correctly or the Classic's draw has changed significantly ?
All of these pieces of electronics draw power even when they are off. Not disconnected, but off and ready to be turned on. Their auxiliary power supplies and displays and microprocessors etc. all contribute.
I am really interested in what is going on though.
What he said. You probably do not use Anchor Lights, do you? Vic
So I feel like an idiot.
Disconnected the inverter completely, and WBJ still shows a 2.1 amp draw.
Attached is the WBJ install.
Battery feeds on the bottom, inverter feeds on the top.
So, I followed a hunch, and rotated the cables on the shunt...
Now we're at .2a with the inverter connected, and in standby mode.
(apparently it didn't like being so close to the cables, lol)
So vampire draw is, apparently installation error.
Negative cable from battery to one side of shunt. No other negative connections on that side of shunt. Purple wire from Whizbang pointing to that battery connection side .
The other side of shunt is where every other negative will be connected to .
Glad you got it figured out that you had it on backwards .
Larry
YaY !!
Glad you got it figured out !
Now you're a super doooper trouble shoooter !
:) ;) ;D
I didn't have it on backwards.
I think the issue was the cables coming in at 90â° to the shunt, the proximity of the cable to the WBJ, or the routing of the wire from the WBJ to the classic.
It was originally like the attached photo.
I think this thread has reached its conclusion for the most part, as it seems to work :)
(Thanks everyone for all the smart answers to dumb questions)
... I'm on to getting phase 2 figured out, so I started a new thread in the system design forum.
That post is here: http://midniteftp.com/forum/index.php?topic=5134.0
OKeee Dokeee Stone !
I saw your new post but have not digested it yet.
It's mostly me overthinking things, lol.
I mean, I could just post it here and keep going, it's sorta up to all'y'all.
stone
not sure what your problem was. i have tons of cables crossing at the whiz bang jr shunt. 3 devices using it to measure current and no problems
I don't know either, but as soon as I change the cables to in one end and out the other, it gave me a much better reading...
I'm going to end up moving the shunt and the bus bars at some point anyway, 'cause I feel like I need a deeper battery bank, and I can't fit any more batteries where they are currently located. :/