*waves*
Me again :)
8 265w panels
Classic 150
8 L-16's wired for 24VDC.
3,000w inverter.
Been running fine all summer.
(about 85% state of charge when the sun comes up in the morning, fully recharged by 2pm)
Got my first two rainy days in a row, and my batteries were sitting at 66% at sunset today.
... I am currently running the ship off my 3500w generator. It ties in via rotary switch on the ac side.
I have a 24v 80 amp DC battery charger that I would like to install so I can charge the batteries while the generator is running.
I'm not sure how to hook this up?
Hot to the positive terminal, negative to the ship side of the shunt?
Will this put my classic 150's at risk?
Thoughts?
Thanks! :)
-Stone (s/v Ninaa Ootakii)
Hey Stone ! Good to hear from you.
Sorry about the state of charge.
Yes, hook up like you said. Not sure what side of the shunt your hull is connected to ? Battery negative end or Classic negative end ?
I suppose ether end that offers the lowest resistance which would be the battery negative terminal for that minus connection.
Positive to positive but I guess there wasn't much there to choose from :)
boB
*waves goodbye*
My hull is fiberglass, lol.
Let me rephrase.
Battery negative post -> shunt -> inverter / classic 150 / 24v power buss / (24v battery charger would go here?)
Quote from: Stone on September 12, 2021, 01:06:44 AM
My hull is fiberglass, lol.
Let me rephrase.
Battery negative post -> shunt -> inverter / classic 150 / 24v power buss / (24v battery charger would go here?)
Yep ! Negative on the left, positive on the right.
Just like jumping a car battery, except 24V instead of 12V
Quote from: Stone on September 12, 2021, 12:14:17 AM
(DC Charger hookup) ... Hot to the positive terminal, negative to the ship side of the shunt?
Will this put my classic 150's at risk?
Thoughts?
Thanks! :)
-Stone (s/v Ninaa Ootakii)
YES, the plus cable from the charger to the plus terminal of the battery ... you will want to place a DC circuit breaker in this cable, unless the charger has reliable circuit protection built-in. The cable needs to be sized for the maximum current the charger can supply, and the breaker needs to be sized to protect that cable.
Yes, the negative cable from the charger should connect to the side of that shunt that has all of the negatives from the ship -- that is, NOT on the battery negative side of the Shunt. This will allow your WbJr to read the charge current into the battery, IMO.
Good Luck, Vic
Thanks Bob,
Thanks Vic.
I was pretty sure that was the way, but it's better safe than sorry, ya know?
... I'm guessing that when the 24vdc charger is hot, the classic will simply see the batteries as a higher state of charge than they are, and when the 24vdc charger is off, it simply doesn't see it at all.
A friend of mine does small generator stuff, and he's suggesting that the hot setup here is going to be doubling my panels (in the works) and a small diesel engine spinning a 24vdc alternator, with some form of "battery bank = 60% then auto start" function.
As I'm in a marine environment, it seems like a better way to go than my shore power cable plugged into a Honda 3,000.
Thoughts on this?
(Unsure what my batteries (8 L-16's, series/parallel) can take for a bulk charge rate?)
Thanks!
Quote from: Vic on September 12, 2021, 02:06:01 PM
Yes, the negative cable from the charger should connect to the side of that shunt that has all of the negatives from the ship -- that is, NOT on the battery negative side of the Shunt. This will allow your WbJr to read the charge current into the battery, IMO.
Good Luck, Vic
Good point, Vic !
Just leave the Classic turned on when using that external charger.
And you can also monitor the battery voltage and current going into the battery that way.
boB
Quote from: Stone on September 12, 2021, 03:11:59 PM
A friend of mine does small generator stuff, and he's suggesting that the hot setup here is going to be doubling my panels (in the works) and a small diesel engine spinning a 24vdc alternator, with some form of "battery bank = 60% then auto start" function.
As I'm in a marine environment, it seems like a better way to go than my shore power cable plugged into a Honda 3,000.
Thoughts on this?
While not on a boat, my standby generator is similar to what your friend describes. I have a 70 amp 24 Volt Delco 21SI alternator being driven by a 6hp gas engine I converted to propane. There is a belt drive that I used to get the speed about right, and then I adjust the engine throttle to get 60 amps output.
The built in voltage regulator has an external voltage sense connection, and that is used to control the output voltage.
Actually the voltage regulator doesn't do anything until the battery voltage approaches the regulator set point.
However, the regulator setpoint is 27.7 volts, and it starts tapering off at 27 volts. I wanted 29 volts, so I used a rheostat as a voltage divider to trick the regulator.
I don't auto start ; instead I have a warning light to alert us to start the generator. Then is runs until SOC = 80% or the timer reaches 5 hours. I decided that the generator is just for getting through a few cloudy days, and so no need to absorb. Makes the setup very simple.
I found it doesn't work very well when there is sun, due to conflict with the Classic 150 setpoints, so we run the generator when there is no sun.
Bob D, what you might try is to adjust the Classic to charge at a slightly higher voltage than the generator will charge at.
This way, the Classic should still put out something while charging from another source.
boB
So that charger puts out 3 to 30 amps (swinging wildly) and causes my generator to surge and the lights to pulse along with it. :/
Wizard says that it's likely the charger.
So, I'm in the market for a 24v battery charger.
Strongly considering a Samlex 40 amp.
This one: https://www.donrowe.com/Samlex-SEC-2440UL-p/sec-2440ul.htm
before I pull the trigger on this, does anyone else have a better suggestion?
Was considering the pro mariner, but they seem to top out at 30 amps?
Help! lol.
Thanks,
Stone (s/v Ninaa Ootakii)
Hi Stone, welcome back to the Forum.
It might be good for you to re-torque all cable connections, everywhere there is a screw terminal that connects to any cable. These would be any busbar connections, those at all circuit breakers with screw terminal connections, also connections to the charger, itself, etc --- ALL of them.
This would be particularly true for all of these screw terminals that connect to any/ALL fine-strand (often Marine) cables. Screw terminal connections to fine strand cable are often considered to not be compatible with each other.
Look for any discoloration at these junctions, caused by excess heating.
Copper cold-flows, causing reduced clamping force at these connection points. This usually increases the resistance of that connection. With higher currents the increased resistance can cause excess heating. Also thermal-cycling can also cause clamping force reduction, necessitating re-torquing.
In addition, carefully check the torque on all fasteners that may be used on battery terminal lugs, etc Be very careful with metal tools around battery terminals ...
The above may not be issues with your system, but, just sayin'. YES, it could be an issue with the charger.
FWIW, Vic
Quote from: Stone on October 09, 2021, 05:18:21 PM
So that charger puts out 3 to 30 amps (swinging wildly) and causes my generator to surge and the lights to pulse along with it. :/
Wizard says that it's likely the charger.
So, I'm in the market for a 24v battery charger.
Strongly considering a Samlex 40 amp.
This one: https://www.donrowe.com/Samlex-SEC-2440UL-p/sec-2440ul.htm
before I pull the trigger on this, does anyone else have a better suggestion?
Was considering the pro mariner, but they seem to top out at 30 amps?
Help! lol.
Thanks,
Stone (s/v Ninaa Ootakii)
You could consider getting an inverter that has built in charger
Larry
Attached, pics of a 10 year old wire, that had the copper cold flow and start the oxide/heat/high resistance/oxide process.
Caught it when changing out charge controller, and spotted it looking all nasty. The aperture in the busbar was toast, had to move
the replacement to a new hole.
If it happens to me, it can happen to anyone.
This is my 2nd one in 11 years.
if it happens to me it can happen to everybody ....\
i don't agree with your statement. if the lugs are properly crimped this should not happen.
if the lugs are properly crimped the copper strands inside the crimp are moulded to the shape of the die. so, if the die has six sides, all the individual strands will be totally melded together in the shape of the die, (each single strand) i cut one with the hack saw to see what it is like in the inside.
hydraulic plyers are only 45$ AU or so.
i suggest to get one.
plus the lug is way to big for the wire size
The lug was not my crimp, and did not fail, it was the wire under the setscrew in the bus bar.
That wire was installed by a licensed electrician that has done a lot of solar in the the area. I check and inspect about every 2 years, and it was caught before any issues.
my fault, presumed wrongly.
ah yes cold flow, i always tighten twice. but, things can still get loose. infrared sensor is a good way to test connections und high current.
I've got hydraulic crimpers and proper connectors (2/0 and 4/0)
Spent all day today tightening up connections on the ac side of things, and the charger has been pushing 30a into the battery bank all day.
It has a couple pots on the front to adjust charge voltage, and turning one up a bit stopped the surge (guessing it's set too low)
72% and climbing. :)
Hi Stone, thanks for the update.
So, it seems a bit uncertain if re-torquing screw terminal to wire connections did any good, or if it was turning one of the adjustment post on the charged helped.
One important thing to notice, when re-torquing these connections, is just how much of a turn was required to get each of those terminals tight.
Glad that the charger seems to be behaving well, now. Thanks, Vic
Pretty sure it was the charger being extremely inelegant about charging or not.
It would push 30a for a couple seconds, then drop, then repeat. ... I know my bank has a fairly high charge voltage, so the theory is that the "so old balmar has never heard of it" Balmar Super Charger dc-960-24 was simply going "batteries are full, turn off" then sensing they weren't and turning right back on again, since cranking up the float pot made it stop surging until I hit about 95% state of charge, which pushed 30-50a into my batteries pretty steady, per wiz bang jr.
Ultimately I found a screaming deal on a Promariner Pronautic 24v 30a charger (already have 3 of their 12v 30a) so I changed that out, and installed an a/b switch for the galley.
Basically, if I'm low on state of charge, fire the genny, switch the galley to it when cooking (or whatever) and it'll run my galley (by far my biggest load) while charging all 3 12v banks and the big 24v bank in the background.
Pretty much good to go on that front.
... now I need to figure out my wind turbines, lol.
Thanks everyone :)
-stone (s/v Ninaa Ootakii)
Thanks, Stone, for ther update. Good that you have this issue resolved. Vic