Some packages arrived on this dark cold snowy evening.
They were greeted in passing by a 240v PV array as they made their way to a temporary warmer location.
The days have been very overcast for the past week and the batteries want something other than generator juice.
Perhaps in a few days the skies will clear and the batteries will be satiated with sunny solar power.
Larry
Larry,
Are you going to upgrade one of your systems, or start a new system with HB?
Also, at 240 volts, you will see good results, but when you get over 300 and even more over 400 volts HB really shines.
How many watts are you planning to send towards HB? At 4000 watts, I only could get the fan to run in low on occasion.
Best of luck up there. I expect you will be adding a lot more panels once you see how well HB runs.
Please keep us posted.
Quote from: Highflyer on December 18, 2022, 03:27:13 PM
Larry,
Are you going to upgrade one of your systems, or start a new system with HB?
Also, at 240 volts, you will see good results, but when you get over 300 and even more over 400 volts HB really shines.
How many watts are you planning to send towards HB? At 4000 watts, I only could get the fan to run in low on occasion.
Best of luck up there. I expect you will be adding a lot more panels once you see how well HB runs.
Please keep us posted.
Thanks for the info .
Right now I have a Classic with about 2.5 kw on it.
I plan on putting the PV shown in photo on the Hawkes Bay and that is around 240v 1.8 kw .
I will put the Hawkes Bay next to the Classic so I can just add it on the existing battery wiring and whizbang .
I guess I could add an additional whizbang and shunt for the Hawkes Bay later.
If I want to I could probably combine the two arrays into one since the panels are all pretty similar - so just change the Classic PV that is 3s 3p to be 8s and then put that array in series with the other one to get 480v 16s . But I would have to think about that if it would work right since the two arrays are angled a bit different. I put the new one up a bit more to the west to take advantage of late afternoon sunlight I get in this valley this time of year. And I need to consider a -20 f VOC to make sure it wouldn't be over 600v .
Also I guess I could just make a temp structure to support two more pv next to the 1.8kw array to up their voltage since I have more matching pv here .
The thing is , darn cold out here now for the next week ( below zero nights, teens for high in days) so not the best time to do some things.
My power room is unheated - though I have the 1.8kw array in that photo going directly to a baseboard resistance heater and it got the workshop up near 50 F today so that is warm enough to work on the Hawkes Bay. Hopefully the sun will be out in future week. We just got through super long overcast and last night my lithium batteries crashed on under voltage. I found out that their bms reported SOC is not accurate at all. The Classic reported SOC for them turned out to be the one I should have been using. Anyway today the sun was out long enough to charge them up at least 50% full if not more . Classic made 8 kwh for the 15 kwh lithium pack.
At least I won't be bored during the short days .
Larry
Brian,
I hear that you can put two Whizbangs on one shunt . So if that is the case I will be doing that if the two whizbangs stacked fit in existing box okay.
Larry
Larry,
I would be concerned that a classic and HB might fight since they do not have comms. No way to "Follow Me" that I know of right now. Ryan or other techs would know way better than me on that. I do know that Barcelona and HB communicate very well and very easily. I believe the Midnite comm box will allow for comms between all those controllers when available. I bet boB or Ryan would know more.
I also bet you will be adding more panels when you see just how easily HB handles a 1.8kW array. I have had over 4000 watts on my HB and I have room to spare. I am planning to go to 6400 watts when able.
Have fun!
Quote from: Highflyer on December 18, 2022, 09:44:48 PM
Larry,
I would be concerned that a classic and HB might fight since they do not have comms. No way to "Follow Me" that I know of right now. Ryan or other techs would know way better than me on that. I do know that Barcelona and HB communicate very well and very easily. I believe the Midnite comm box will allow for comms between all those controllers when available. I bet boB or Ryan would know more.
I also bet you will be adding more panels when you see just how easily HB handles a 1.8kW array. I have had over 4000 watts on my HB and I have room to spare. I am planning to go to 6400 watts when able.
Have fun!
Eventually, Classics and HB and Barceolonas and Rosies will be able to follow each other.
Maybe this could be done using Aux outputs and Aux inputs first ? That would be weird but kind of cool for a temporary work-around.
I like it !
boB
I unboxed and laid out the controller and breaker box, then looked around for materials to use for mounting it.
I made a video of this - along with a taste of Wisconsin winter weather.
Here is the youtube link to part one video - I didn't get very far with it today but progress a little bit at a time !
https://youtu.be/kY7Xc6Ob8mg
and it is snowing another couple inches tonight so I get to sweep off the pv again in the morning.
But the weather forecast promises some real sunshine tomorrow.
Larry
Larry,
I found mounting the breaker box on the wall first and letting gravity seat the HB on top worked well for me.
It sure is fun to watch others figure out what works best for them. Keep us informed!
Quote from: Highflyer on December 20, 2022, 12:43:34 PM
Larry,
I found mounting the breaker box on the wall first and letting gravity seat the HB on top worked well for me.
It sure is fun to watch others figure out what works best for them. Keep us informed!
I took your advice Brian - and glad I did. Working by myself it would have been really hard to get it hung up if I already had it all mounted together.
It was hard enough for me as it was since carpentry isn't my best skill !
I put the backboard up, then mounted the bottom breaker box , then it was much easier to be able to put the heavier Hawkes Bay controller on top of that and not have to hold it until I got the screws in.
The sun was out here all day ( hurray ! ) so the room warmed up very nicely.
The power that would be going into the Hawkes Bay was going directly into 240v resistance baseboard heater.
When I wire this up , I want to have a diversion route for the PV input to be able to go directly to the baseboard heater.
The thought was that maybe I can have an igbt block switch it using the Aux of the controller to send excess over to the heater.
But that is down the road - for now just getting it hooked up to the batteries will be nice.
As seen in the photo - the Hawkes Bay dwarfs the Classic in size.
They say a picture is worth a thousand words.
So I made a video with a thousand words . Basically I showed my existing Classic wiring and pondered how to wire the Hawkes Bay into it.
I welcome free advice !
I also showed the PV that is going into the Classic and the new PV array that will go into the Hawkes Bay.
And I talked a bit about how I had to jump start my lithium batteries when they shut down the other day using my ebike charger along with future Riden power supply option.
Still cold and another no sun day here in Wisconsin !
https://youtu.be/iEIPlfiZtC8
Larry
Hi Larry,
Thanks for the video of your systems.
Seems that your primary concern was, the battery breaker, from the HB, to the battery.
I would leave the 125 A HB's breaker in place, and add a breaker that would protect the cable that is used from that added breaker to the Li batteries.
Being one who has used only breakers as disconnects and protection in our LA battery off-grid systems, I have been a bit slow to want to adopt using fast fusing at the Li battery end of the cicuit.
Class T, and other fast fusing seems to be all the rage in the DIY LiFePO4 circles. This can add some protection, but at the cost of increased voltage drops in the fuses and connections, and can reduce reliability, and possible create added points of exposure of the battery circuit, to accidential shorting, etc.
Personally have gotten Class T fuses, and holders for our Li battery backup system (backup to the FLA off grid batterries), and may use them, but, to me circuit breakers that have high AIC ratings (like MNEDC 175/250 A), should be enough protection, for catastrophic failures ... IMO.
You might want to consider PV "Isolator" HV switches for your PV input Disconnect, and, to switch the PV input from the HB, to your baseboard heater. Wind-Sun has some of these.
There are many Isolator switch configurations available, here is just one of them:
https://www.solar-electric.com/imo-si32-pel64r-4-true-dc-solar-isolator.html
EDIT: I have had one bit of a conern, in simply switching the baseboard heater, from the HB, to the heater. Think that a double pole switch would be required, as you might not want to risk of unintentionally switch the heater onto the PV input of the HB, with the HB still connected ... wonder if the HB might be damaged, perhaps "thinking" that its PV input had been SHORTED to ground. You and others have successfully used excess PV power DIverrsion using IGBTs, and FET switches, but .... just a wonderment ... <
Just a stream of unconciousness, for now, more later. Keep warm! 73, Vic
Quote from: Vic on December 22, 2022, 12:02:45 PM
Hi Larry,
Thanks for the video of your systems.
Seems that your primary concern was, the battery breaker, from the HB, to the battery.
I would leave the 125 A HB's breaker in place, and add a breaker that would protect the cable that is used from that added breaker to the Li batteries.
Being one who has used only breakers as disconnects and protection in our LA battery off-grid systems, I have been a bit slow to want to adopt using fast fusing at the Li battery end of the cicuit.
Class T, and other fast fusing seems to be all the rage in the DIY LiFePO4 circles. This can add some protection, but at the cost of increased voltage drops in the fuses and connections, and can reduce reliability, and possible create added points of exposure of the battery circuit, to accidential shorting, etc.
Personally have gotten Class T fuses, and holders for our Li battery backup system (backup to the FLA off grid batterries), and may use them, but, to me circuit breakers that have high AIC ratings (like MNEDC 175/250 A), should be enough protection, for catastrophic failures ... IMO.
You might want to consider PV "Isolator" HV switches for your PV input Disconnect, and, to switch the PV input from the HB, to your baseboard heater. Wind-Sun has some of these.
There are many Isolator switch configurations available, here is just one of them:
https://www.solar-electric.com/imo-si32-pel64r-4-true-dc-solar-isolator.html
EDIT: I have had one bit of a conern, in simply switching the baseboard heater, from the HB, to the heater. Think that a double pole switch would be required, as you might not want to risk of unintentionally switch the heater onto the PV input of the HB, with the HB still connected ... wonder if the HB might be damaged, perhaps "thinking" that its PV input had been SHORTED to ground. You and others have successfully used excess PV power DIverrsion using IGBTs, and FET switches, but .... just a wonderment ... <
Just a stream of unconciousness, for now, more later. Keep warm! 73, Vic
Good points Vic.
I do have some very large heavy duty dc fuses that I salvaged from an elevator tear down. That had huge dc motors to run it. But I haven't used those fuses on anything yet. I will have to dig them out sometime and look at their ratings - I think 100 amps rated at least.
The only reason I wouldn't use the 125 amp breaker for now is if I don't have any appropriate wire and connectors around. I think I do though . It needs #1 awg wire . I have a nice wire collection around here - just need to dig around in the storage.
I don't have the plan for the pv diversion around the Hawkes Bay yet. Maybe just breakers as switches to begin with but I need to draw out my idea on paper .
Larry
Hi Larry,
Personally, would leave the 125 A HB breaker in place, and use it.
On the other end of the cable that is connected to that 125 A breaker, would add a smaller breaker, near the Li battery, which will protect the cable for the current that the HB will really be able to produce.
If the PV array could only produce 4 kW output under cold windy sunny days (for example), then perhaps #4, or #2 AWG, should suffice, with an 80 Amp Panel Mount breaker.
Later, just a thought. Vic
I think I get what you are saying Vic. I will think about that option.
Larry
And, Larry,
Regarding the WbJr, MN includes LONG screws with the Wb, that might allow stacking, two Wbs on your shunt.
Have never done this, but the mounting hardware is 8-32 threading.
It has been SO long ago that many of us installed our Wbs, that its installation is too distant a memory, here.
Wb Manual:
https://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/10-264-1_REV_F.pdf
Keep warm, and out of the WX, Larry, and all others. Still some sun here in CA, and temps climbing. 73 take care ... Seasons Greetings errrrr Merry Christmas and HNY, Vic
Vic
It was below zero F here all yesterday , minus 12 last night , and below zero and very windy here all day. But the sun was sort of out .
We actually expect this kind of weather or supposed to if we want to stay alive - ha ha !
If anyone is interested I made a short video today of my original Arco 55 watt panels which I bought in late 1980's or early 90's for $300 each .
They still make some energy via a midnite brat controller.
https://youtu.be/dOUul-DL5qw
Larry
Hi Larry,
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !!!! !!! !
Thanks for the video. Far too cold, and far too much snow for me.
It seems that you have quite a few PV arrays, there.
Please do keep warm, take care. Good Luck to you, and ALL of the many others who are experiencing all of the bitter cold, wind, snow, and flooding. Best wishes for a Merry Christmas, and a Happy New year. Thanks, Vic
Amazing those old Arco panels still work. The cell surfaces are the worst I've ever seen. Here's a real old Arco panel that is odd in that it has a boxlike construction. Not sure of the vintage but looking at the crude cells I'd guess one of the first.
Quote from: littleharbor2 on December 24, 2022, 06:48:41 AM
Amazing those old Arco panels still work. The cell surfaces are the worst I've ever seen. Here's a real old Arco panel that is odd in that it has a boxlike construction. Not sure of the vintage but looking at the crude cells I'd guess one of the first.
LittleHabor
Those are some vintage collectible solar panels ! I wonder if anyone collects old pv ? I have some vintage solar controllers here. My first controller was small cube made by Bobier Electronics. When the sun was getting low , the relay started chattering in it off and on real fast. I asked Bobier about it and he sent me a new improved version that didn't do that . I should take a photo of that controller next to the Hawkes Bay ha ha - that will be a striking comparison .
Larry
What a contrast that would be for sure.
Here's one more photo with a few more vintage panels and controllers. See the long lost relative of the Midnite line of controllers.
Theres a pristine Solar Power Corp. panel with fiberglass backing and silicone front encapsulant. Top right is an odd panel made with cells designed for satellites. Notice the radial traces on the cells?
Quote from: littleharbor2 on December 24, 2022, 01:29:06 PM
What a contrast that would be for sure.
Here's one more photo with a few more vintage panels and controllers. See the long lost relative of the Midnite line of controllers.
Theres a pristine Solar Power Corp. panel with fiberglass backing and silicone front encapsulant. Top right is an odd panel made with cells designed for satellites. Notice the radial traces on the cells?
You have a neat collection there.
That satellite pv is cool.
We should make a forum topic called show us your old solar stuff !
Larry
Part 3 video of my Hawkes Bay install . I show my cold weather adventures finding the 2 gauge wire, terminals, and making the cables to go from Hawkes Bay to adjacent Midnite MNDC breaker box.
The sun was out in full force today - first time in a couple weeks. The sunshine and cold air temps had the solar panels putting out their full rated power or more today.
I also show at the end of video some data monitoring history and analysis from how my lithium batteries did last night with heater load to keep the batteries warm. This showed how some of the cells are not balanced , but by the end of the day today the 48v 300 ah of battery was 100% charged . I welcome comments on my video making - for example I sped up parts in editing cause I didn't want to bore everyone with my slow talk and action. I just hope it may be of value for others who want a more detailed look at what it might take them to plan and wire up a Hawkes Bay .
Here is the youtube link
https://youtu.be/jsFOfkaCHU8
Larry
Just uploaded the Part 4 of wiring Hawkes Bay.
I got all the wires from the breaker box to the controller connected, wired up a ground, an SPD, and got a junction box in for the PV .
I found that a cheap 300v DC breaker I was going to use for the dc baseboard heater wasn't up to the job of breaking a load and sent a nice flame out the side of it.
No fancy speed up editing on this video so it is what it is !
https://youtu.be/WDnMvbjDiwA
Larry
Quote from: littleharbor2 on December 24, 2022, 01:29:06 PM
What a contrast that would be for sure.
Here's one more photo with a few more vintage panels and controllers. See the long lost relative of the Midnite line of controllers.
Theres a pristine Solar Power Corp. panel with fiberglass backing and silicone front encapsulant. Top right is an odd panel made with cells designed for satellites. Notice the radial traces on the cells?
Good grief! One of the old Trace 'clicker' regulators. Damn, those are rare. I've been trolling ebay for years looking for one.
Solarex had a line of PV panels that were cells encapsulated onto what looked like PCB material. I had several and the worked fine as long as they did't get too hot. If they did, they would stop working. The cause? Then the cell backing, the PCB material, would heat up, the expansion put stress on the silver strips that connected the cells. So, once hot, the connection would open and the panel would drop to zero volts. If you took a garden hose and wet the back, bang! The panel would start producing voltage again.
Ah, those were the days!
Mike, wb8vge
Quote from: qrper on December 28, 2022, 11:17:28 AM
Quote from: littleharbor2 on December 24, 2022, 01:29:06 PM
What a contrast that would be for sure.
Here's one more photo with a few more vintage panels and controllers. See the long lost relative of the Midnite line of controllers.
Theres a pristine Solar Power Corp. panel with fiberglass backing and silicone front encapsulant. Top right is an odd panel made with cells designed for satellites. Notice the radial traces on the cells?
Good grief! One of the old Trace 'clicker' regulators. Damn, those are rare. I've been trolling ebay for years looking for one.
Solarex had a line of PV panels that were cells encapsulated onto what looked like PCB material. I had several and the worked fine as long as they did't get too hot. If they did, they would stop working. The cause? Then the cell backing, the PCB material, would heat up, the expansion put stress on the silver strips that connected the cells. So, once hot, the connection would open and the panel would drop to zero volts. If you took a garden hose and wet the back, bang! The panel would start producing voltage again.
Ah, those were the days!
Mike, wb8vge
Mike - Glad that we have moved on to bigger and hopefully better things !
Larry
Today I finished up all the wiring to the Hawkes Bay and powered it up. I had to wrestle around quite a bit with my existing cables which took a bit of time. And the Whizbang on the shunt was in the way of getting the shunt removed because the Whizbang blocks the mounting screw. And since I had added heavy wire cables above it , it was really hard to get a screwdriver on the Whizbang to remove it so I could remove the shunt. I was removing the shunt so I could stack two Whizbangs on it - one for the Classic, and another for the Hawkes Bay. I had a lot of extra Whizbang mounting hardware from past projects . What I did was to install spacers so there was access to the shunt mounting screw. Also had to space out the two Whizbangs with extra spacers because of protrusion on the bottom they won't fit flat on each other. I got it done as shown in the video I made .
I had a lot of wrestling with stiff cables to get the cables all reattached on the shunt, and had to make up a new negative wire to the Classic just so I could position the terminal better on the shunt.
I got the PV wired up, then made all the checks, and powered up the Hawkes Bay . All seemed to go well though it was just before sundown so it barely made any watts . I downloaded the android updater app and updated firmware and or MNGP2 with no issues. This is so much easier than the old days of dragging a laptop out to the Classic and then messing around with serial ports. The Android updater app just finds the Hawkes Bay right away . There could be some refinements to the app because I wasn't sure what updates I was doing at first , I just touched the screen and it started updating . But I am sure that will get improved along the way. I may have done the same mngp2 update twice - not sure.
Everything went pretty well so now I can finally take advantage of using the extra 1.8kw of PV I put up this past fall to charge the batteries - which will really help out on the short and cloudy days of winter.
Here is the youtube link to part 5 video. I tried to make it short - had all kinds of editing mess ups and had to redo it once - fun times with video editing - I am not that skilled at it !
https://youtu.be/7t7lw8ryIxA
I use this to get some better connect points. I have bolted it on the MNDC250 breaker as well. Makes it way easy.
https://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=209&productCatName=Busbars&productCat_ID=17&sortOrder=19&act=p
Quote from: Wizbandit on December 29, 2022, 06:30:30 AM
I use this to get some better connect points. I have bolted it on the MNDC250 breaker as well. Makes it way easy.
https://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=209&productCatName=Busbars&productCat_ID=17&sortOrder=19&act=p
I should get one of those and make my wiring life a lot easier !
Larry
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on December 24, 2022, 10:39:32 AM
Quote from: littleharbor2 on December 24, 2022, 06:48:41 AM
Amazing those old Arco panels still work. The cell surfaces are the worst I've ever seen. Here's a real old Arco panel that is odd in that it has a boxlike construction. Not sure of the vintage but looking at the crude cells I'd guess one of the first.
LittleHabor
Those are some vintage collectible solar panels ! I wonder if anyone collects old pv ? I have some vintage solar controllers here. My first controller was small cube made by Bobier Electronics. When the sun was getting low , the relay started chattering in it off and on real fast. I asked Bobier about it and he sent me a new improved version that didn't do that . I should take a photo of that controller next to the Hawkes Bay ha ha - that will be a striking comparison .
Larry
I used to sell those Bobier controllers. They weren't much in the way of current capacity, I'm thinking less than five amps? They were potted and un-repairable, too. They worked like the Trace C30 and used a relay to control charging current. The Trace had a T90 20 A relay. I have no idea what Bobier used. Both were really efficient as there was no blocking diode lost or power wasted in a transistor. Power MOSFETS were still too expensive and fragile at that time. Neither one, that I recall, used a microprocessor so they were RFI quiet. They did click when regulating the battery voltage.
Without a blocking diode, the relay would be opened, camparators would look at the solar panel's voltage and if the panel was in the dark, keep the relay open until dawn.
They worked okay if you didn't mind the clicking of the relay. The T90 relay used by Trace was rated at millions of cycles, so it should, in theory, never fail.
Great times back then!
mike, wb8vge
Hi Larry,
Thanks for your videos of your installation of the Hawke's Bay.
Too bad about that "300 VDC breaker". To me, it is difficult to trust many/most/all of these inexpensive DC breakers that come from central Asia. This sounds and is prejudicial, as a general statement. BUT, there is so much riding on these breakers, and if we can find DC breakers from MidNite Solar/Carling/CBI/Sq-D, and other majors, it seems well worth the extra purchase price.
Not to lecture, too much. more later, thanks, Vic
Quote from: Vic on December 30, 2022, 02:55:37 PM
Hi Larry,
Thanks for your videos of your installation of the Hawke's Bay.
Too bad about that "300 VDC breaker". To me, it is difficult to trust many/most/all of these inexpensive DC breakers that come from central Asia. This sounds and is prejudicial, as a general statement. BUT, there is so much riding on these breakers, and if we can find DC breakers from MidNite Solar/Carling/CBI/Sq-D, and other majors, it seems well worth the extra purchase price.
Not to lecture, too much. more later, thanks, Vic
I have a double pole inexpensive one rated at 1000 watts 20 amps on my 240v dc water heater and have been using it sometimes to break load. It seems to work okay - at least the spark is smaller and no flames shoot out of it !
I was looking at northern arizona wind sun and couldn't find any midnite breakers with the higher voltage ratings.
Larry
Hi Larry,
YES, the newer line of MidNite CBI HV breakers are in a bit of a short supply, as they appear to be a new line of 300, and 600 V DC models. Wind-Sun store does not have SKUs for many of the new HV DC breakers, that are on the MidNite Circuit breaker Poster (here):
https://midnitesolar.com/pdfs/breakers_11x17.jpg
Personally, even if one tested each Asian DC breaker candidate, under rated load, would always wonder, if that test might be the only interruption, or the last one that, that breaker might successfully tolerate, and catch on fire on the next trip ... hard to know, without a Teardown.
IMO, 73 did not mean to nit-pick! GL, Vic
I hooked up the MNGP2 to about 20 or 30 feet of Cat 5 and remoted it to somewhere more convenient for me.
It works no problem.
Using the backlight adjustment - it won't go below 10 on the scale so no way to dim it completely even manually.
I also discovered the battery in MNGP - maybe I missed it in the manual. I removed the plastic to activate the battery .
I found place in menus to turn on whizbang .
Did I read somewhere that the battery sense does not work yet ? I need to make some wires for that sometime.
Larry
Whizbang works - shows same as the whizbang on the Classic.
SOC though doesn't count down - stays at 100% but maybe because I don't have all the voltages calibrated on cables compared to Classic. ( update - the SOC is counting down some now but slower than the Classic ).
I wanted Hawkes Bay to drop out of charging first and let Classic finish charging batteries. I need to connect up remote voltage sense wires to battery and see if that works.
Are there plans or the capability to get more than one digit on the battery voltage ?
Larry
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on January 01, 2023, 09:05:26 PM
Whizbang works - shows same as the whizbang on the Classic.
SOC though doesn't count down - stays at 100% but maybe because I don't have all the voltages calibrated on cables compared to Classic. ( update - the SOC is counting down some now but slower than the Classic ).
I wanted Hawkes Bay to drop out of charging first and let Classic finish charging batteries. I need to connect up remote voltage sense wires to battery and see if that works.
Are there plans to get more than one digit on the battery voltage ?
Larry
I seem to remember something about the WB Jr. SOC% counting down but I am not sure.
I will present this on Tuesday when we get back.
Merry New Year !
boB
Quote from: boB on January 02, 2023, 12:12:45 AM
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on January 01, 2023, 09:05:26 PM
Whizbang works - shows same as the whizbang on the Classic.
SOC though doesn't count down - stays at 100% but maybe because I don't have all the voltages calibrated on cables compared to Classic. ( update - the SOC is counting down some now but slower than the Classic ).
I wanted Hawkes Bay to drop out of charging first and let Classic finish charging batteries. I need to connect up remote voltage sense wires to battery and see if that works.
Are there plans to get more than one digit on the battery voltage ?
Larry
I seem to remember something about the WB Jr. SOC% counting down but I am not sure.
I will present this on Tuesday when we get back.
Merry New Year !
boB
Thanks Bob.
I hear a little bit of a noise from the MNGP2 - not loud - but my hearing is still good enough. Maybe something like a switching timing sound ?
Have you ever noticed that or have an idea what it is from ?
I thought maybe from power supply for the backlight which I have turned all the way down to 10 . I just turned it up in brightness but that doesn't change it.
I mean it isn't very loud. I just hear it because I have it close to me in a quiet place.
Larry
Larry, could that noise be coming out of the speaker ?
Either that or some little auxiliary supply inside.
Can you see if you can cover the speaker up or something and see if it changes ?
I don't suppose you could install something like Spectdroid or a spectrum analyzer on your phone to see what the frequency is ?
The frequency might give an idea.
boB
yeah you are right Bob - the noise is from the speaker - forgot there is one on there !
I will look for a phone app to get the freq if I can.
The thing sticking out next to the speaker which at first I thought was a volume knob - it must be antenna for bluetooth.
Larry
Quote from: boB on January 02, 2023, 12:41:30 AM
Larry, could that noise be coming out of the speaker ?
Either that or some little auxiliary supply inside.
Can you see if you can cover the speaker up or something and see if it changes ?
I don't suppose you could install something like Spectdroid or a spectrum analyzer on your phone to see what the frequency is ?
The frequency might give an idea.
boB
Spectroid on my android phone doesn't seem to pick up the noise even with the phone next to speaker.
I was able to make the noise go away though.
I went to voice settings which is disabled but volume is set to 8. I could select Audio Volume and set it from 8 down to minimum of 1 and then I don't hear the noise ( unless I put the speaker right next to my ear , and even then it is faint) .
Anyway it is quiet enough now so that I don't notice it.
Larry
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on January 02, 2023, 11:34:56 AM
Quote from: boB on January 02, 2023, 12:41:30 AM
Larry, could that noise be coming out of the speaker ?
Either that or some little auxiliary supply inside.
Can you see if you can cover the speaker up or something and see if it changes ?
I don't suppose you could install something like Spectdroid or a spectrum analyzer on your phone to see what the frequency is ?
The frequency might give an idea.
boB
Spectroid on my android phone doesn't seem to pick up the noise even with the phone next to speaker.
I was able to make the noise go away though.
I went to voice settings which is disabled but volume is set to 8. I could select Audio Volume and set it from 8 down to minimum of 1 and then I don't hear the noise ( unless I put the speaker right next to my ear , and even then it is faint) .
Anyway it is quiet enough now so that I don't notice it.
Larry
It may be that your phone doesn't pick up that high of frequency ? You should be able to tell by seeing where the high frequencies drop off on Spectroid.
How good is your hearing ? It is possible that the audio output is not quite low pass filtered enough ?
boB
I hooked up voltage sense wires - not sure if that feature is enabled in firmware yet ?
Also I gave brief look at MNGP2 screens and size comparison to Classic MNGP
Here is video of this mini adventure - sorry didn't catch my screwup and sparks !
https://youtu.be/xECitLloyw0
Larry
I have seen a few of the MNGP2s make a ticking noise in sequence with can traffic, the tick is from the speaker.
SOC/WBjr do you have it set to Battery in External Sensors? Mine runs spot on with the Classics
Remote battery sense is not done yet.
Quote from: FNG on January 03, 2023, 08:51:40 AM
I have seen a few of the MNGP2s make a ticking noise in sequence with can traffic, the tick is from the speaker.
SOC/WBjr do you have it set to Battery in External Sensors? Mine runs spot on with the Classics
Remote battery sense is not done yet.
Yes I have Whizbang set to Battery in external sensors.
I am thinking the SOC could be different if the battery voltages are not exactly matched between the Classic and the Hawkes Bay , maybe they start counting down at different point of time.
The SOC are close though. It is hard to compare exactly this time of year with some days that may not fill up batteries to 100% . I will have to watch over longer period of time - it has only been a few days so far.
Larry
A couple MNGP2 observations
I notice on the MNGP2 settings for the lithium I have set up, the absorb voltage setting seems to be tied to the equalize voltage in that I couldn't raise the absorb voltage higher than the equalize and even then it will only go .1 volt less than the equalize setting.
I have two systems going through the same shunt. The MNGP2 when set to whizbang /battery setting displays the total amps of both - which is okay , but I would also like to see an amps output for just the Hawkes Bay on the display so I know what each system is outputting. I think the display does show the watts output for HB now.
Larry
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on January 06, 2023, 01:29:06 PMA couple MNGP2 observations
I notice on the MNGP2 settings for the lithium I have set up, the absorb voltage setting seems to be tied to the equalize voltage in that I couldn't raise the absorb voltage higher than the equalize and even then it will only go .1 volt less than the equalize setting.
I have two systems going through the same shunt. The MNGP2 when set to whizbang /battery setting displays the total amps of both - which is okay , but I would also like to see an amps output for just the Hawkes Bay on the display so I know what each system is outputting. I think the display does show the watts output for HB now.
Larry
The last MNGP2 update must have added the amps from Hawkes Bay as compared to the Whizbang amps because I can see them now .
Thanks
Quick look at the lastest MNGP2 firmware update.
The amps output from the Whizbang and the Hawkes Bay are separate now which works well for me since I have two systems feeding through the same shunt.
The SOC calculation seems to be working okay now too.
https://youtu.be/3ip7heI0yyY
Larry
Quick view of latest MNGP2 beta update screens
https://youtu.be/x0fuhkSp7Go
Larry
Has anyone else noticed the SOC not counting down correctly ? I think this may have started after the last firmware update since it used to seem more accurate.
I have the same settings in HB as in the Classic that shares the same shunt .
The Classic is showing 88%
and the Hawkes Bay 97%
MNGP2 firmware is 23.2.1
HB firmware is 23.2.1.2
Larry
I think that Mario may have found some of these issues, Larry.
I will ask him tomorrow about this.
boB
Thanks Bob .
latest readings -
Classic 83%
Hawkes Bay 92%
battery bms 84%
7 inches of snow settled down to a fine grain dense 5 inches when it started sleeting.
Last week was like March springtime and all the snow had melted away.
Back to February winter reality in Wisconsin !
Any progress on getting the Canbus info for Hawkes Bay ?
I would be happy to just be able to get bare basics like battery voltage and charging current .
I could then put it on the graphing of what I already do with the Classic which is on the same battery.
Without the battery voltage sense enabled yet it is really difficult to get the two systems to work together.
My other item on the wish list would be to have MNGP2 screen backlight to be able to adjust all the way to off or close to that.
Larry
updating HB from 23.02.01.02 firmware to 23.03.21.00 , update stopped and got Alert Failed : 015 . Second attempt update completed okay. For anyone who has their MNGP2 remote like I do make sure you check HB after update since it will trip the PV breaker .
After that tried updating MNGP2 from 23.02..01.00 to 23.03.16.00 three times but it never started and got Alert Transfer Timeout.
I power cycled HB , tried beta updatater again but android app didn't see HB .
Restarted android phone and then tried app and it found HB and MNGP2 update worked fine.
Maybe it would have worked had I restarted android phone previously ?
Next time I will try that if update is hung up for some reason.
I am curious of the MNGP2 about the MNGP2 backlight ?
It goes from 10 to 99 for dimming . Is there a reason firmware update can't make it go down to 0 and dim it all the way ?
Larry
Larry,
My findings here, for update that fails, in no particular oder:
1- To close to the MNGP2, If the RSSI gets lower than 65 it seems picky
2- To far from the MNGP2, If the RSSI is much above 85-90 it seems picky
3- Reboot blue tooth on phone, It seems like to me my phone gets clogged up and cycling BT seems to work a lot
4- No other things going on the phone. Dont play a game or check email, keep the display alive. This seems more problematic on Rosie then the MPPTs
5- Reboot the phone
6- Reboot MNGP2
Quote from: FNG on March 22, 2023, 03:47:56 PMLarry,
My findings here, for update that fails, in no particular oder:
1- To close to the MNGP2, If the RSSI gets lower than 65 it seems picky
2- To far from the MNGP2, If the RSSI is much above 85-90 it seems picky
3- Reboot blue tooth on phone, It seems like to me my phone gets clogged up and cycling BT seems to work a lot
4- No other things going on the phone. Dont play a game or check email, keep the display alive. This seems more problematic on Rosie then the MPPTs
5- Reboot the phone
6- Reboot MNGP2
yeah I did have the phone right next to the MNGP2 antenna .
FYI - You can unplug the CANBUS cable to reboot the MIG2 (engineer slang for MNGP2) or pop out the speaker/BT cover and there is a RESET BUTTON lower left corner...
The SOC seems to be working well again after last firmware update.
It is now close to the same as Classic and batteries bms report.
Larry
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on March 26, 2023, 09:46:11 PMThe SOC seems to be working well again after last firmware update.
It is now close to the same as Classic and batteries bms report.
Larry
This is great to hear, Larry ! Thank you for checking that.
Lettuce know if things change.
boB
I did the latest MNGP2 beta update.
Released 23.03.30.00
There was also 23.4.6 for the Hawkes Bay update.
I noticed that the Time in Float counter finally cleared the numbers in it so it is zero now.
The Absorb Timer never seemed to count in the past.
It will be a day or two before we get enough sun to charge the batteries again so that I can see what happens with those.
It was in the 80's last week and plants growing and blooming. But winter just came back to Wisconsin with 3 inches of snow ( more predicted) and some nights in the 20's.
Larry
Larry,
I too updated to the latest firmware for HB, BAR and MNGP2 today. I did a reset before the day was finished to install arc fault and ground fault, so I'll see what I get tomorrow and let you know. I did walk through several menus to find a few new things for us to work with. It is getting better all the time.
Quote from: Highflyer on April 16, 2023, 09:53:54 PMLarry,
I too updated to the latest firmware for HB, BAR and MNGP2 today. I did a reset before the day was finished to install arc fault and ground fault, so I'll see what I get tomorrow and let you know. I did walk through several menus to find a few new things for us to work with. It is getting better all the time.
Brain - What did you spot that is new ?
Maybe I never noticed before but I can easily scroll through the data history.
I swept the snow off the pv here and am charging - even though it is still snowing the sky is bright and just above freezing so snow melting on the pv as it lands.
Larry
Just general stuff. A few more tweaks, a few more lines of data on the system screen.
I had to go help a friend, but I'll be back at it in a few days with other things I find.