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Charge Controllers and Clippers => Barcelona => Topic started by: Vic on December 18, 2022, 02:38:10 PM

Title: Barcelona Beta Testing in CA
Post by: Vic on December 18, 2022, 02:38:10 PM
This post is a bit tardy.

MidNite has been very generous in sending a Beta Barcelone,  AND a Hawke's Bay CCs, with Breaker Boxes,  for testing at this off-grid site, in the Center of Nowhere, in central CA.

Had built a new Energy Wall,  in the 10-foot long Cargo Container, Power Room (this is a 20 footer, cut in half).  Felt compelled to go back to skin the plywood face of this wall, with Hardie Backer --  is the current rage for many DIY systems.

Mounted the Barcelona, and Breaker Box on Friday,  and wired the BB to the Barcelona on Saturday.

Need to add two breakers at the battery end, one for the Barcelona,  and another for the parts fo the  LiFePO4 backup battery bank.   The run to the existing FLA battery bank, from the Barcelona will be temporary (not in EMT conduit).

Should be able to power up on Monday  --  12/19/22.

Still need to get the rooftop Conbiner rewired for strings of 9,  175 W PVs,  instead of the existing  strings of three.

Thanks very much to Robin, Ryan,  and all of the development/production team at MidNite for sending these new CCs for Beta testing, here.

This is exciting to me,  as MidNite products have always been the absolute best available, always amazingly relliable,  and continuously improved, with Updates!

Will advise,  Thanks again!,  Vic
Title: Re: Barcelona Beta Testing in CA
Post by: Vic on December 18, 2022, 02:43:14 PM
 ...   One more pic,  Vic
Title: Re: Barcelona Beta Testing in CA
Post by: Highflyer on December 18, 2022, 03:34:57 PM
Vic,
Consider adding a Midnite SPD for your Lithium batteries.  Ryan is right, Lithium batteries use BMSs.  Ryan talks about adding a SPD in one of his videos. I think it very prudent, so much so I have added one to each on my Lithium battery banks.

Have Fun!  The Comm setup is so easy!  It really is plug and play.

Glad to others Beta testing as well!  You are right, these new charge controllers are awesome.
Title: Re: Barcelona Beta Testing in CA
Post by: Vic on December 18, 2022, 03:55:53 PM
Quote from: Highflyer on December 18, 2022, 03:34:57 PM
Vic,
Consider adding a Midnite SPD for your Lithium batteries.  Ryan is right, Lithium batteries use BMSs.  Ryan talks about adding a SPD in one of his videos. I think it very prudent, so much so I have added one to each on my Lithium battery banks   ...

Hi Brian,

Are you saying,  one SPD per Li battery?   I do have some 115 V SPDs, which should do.

Thanks, I need to catch-up on Ryan's YT Channel.   Take care,  thanks,  Merry Christmas/HNY,  and have MORE FUN!    Vic
Title: Re: Barcelona Beta Testing in CA
Post by: ClassicCrazy on December 18, 2022, 05:37:05 PM
Hey Vic,
Nice to see your setup there.
I see a few wire nuts on the old system. I am now using lever type Wago connectors  instead of wire nuts. There is no going back to wire nuts after using those.
Especially if you want to make changes so easy to undo the Wago and the end of the wire isn't all mangled up.
Larry
Title: Re: Barcelona Beta Testing in CA
Post by: Vic on December 18, 2022, 06:36:28 PM
Dang,  just lost a medium-ish post  ...  the Net dropped out.

Briefly,  thanks for mentioning Wagos, have some here,  have never trusted them,  and they limit at #12 AWG for levers, and #10 for poke-home.

The wire nuts are just temporary single wire end,  capping, as the result of removing some hardware, like the KID, while the new wall was being erected.  The red wires are #6,  which is not Wagoagle  ...

Nuts, as you know, are NEC OK,  and UL Listed,  so,  we do trust them.

Glad that you have a shiny new HB CC,  and that new PV arrray to give it something to do.

73  Thanks for the spot on Wago,  keep warm.  Lows, mid 30s here, highs mid 40s,  bitter cold !  OH,  amma a wuss.   Take care, Vic
Title: Re: Barcelona Beta Testing in CA
Post by: ClassicCrazy on December 18, 2022, 07:42:48 PM
Quote from: Vic on December 18, 2022, 06:36:28 PM
Dang,  just lost a medium-ish post  ...  the Net dropped out.

Briefly,  thanks for mentioning Wagos, have some here,  have never trusted them,  and they limit at #12 AWG for levers, and #10 for poke-home.

The wire nuts are just temporary single wire end,  capping, as the result of removing some hardware, like the KID, while the new wall was being erected.  The red wires are #6,  which is not Wagoagle  ...

Nuts, as you know, are NEC OK,  and UL Listed,  so,  we do trust them.

Glad that you have a shiny new HB CC,  and that new PV arrray to give it something to do.

73  Thanks for the spot on Wago,  keep warm.  Lows, mid 30s here, highs mid 40s,  bitter cold !  OH,  amma a wuss.   Take care, Vic
I have some Wago lever type that go up to 10 gauge. I trust them since I watched a video where someone put a whole string of different connectors in series then overloaded circuit to see which failed first. The Wago did as well as the wire nuts.
Yes it will be nice to get the controller here wired up. I could have filled up the batteries today if it was hooked up. 
Keep warm - it is going to be below zero here tonight !
Larry
Title: Re: Barcelona Beta Testing in CA
Post by: Highflyer on December 18, 2022, 09:27:27 PM
Quote from: Vic on December 18, 2022, 03:55:53 PM
Quote from: Highflyer on December 18, 2022, 03:34:57 PM
Vic,
Consider adding a Midnite SPD for your Lithium batteries.  Ryan is right, Lithium batteries use BMSs.  Ryan talks about adding a SPD in one of his videos. I think it very prudent, so much so I have added one to each on my Lithium battery banks   ...

Hi Brian,

Are you saying,  one SPD per Li battery?   I do have some 115 V SPDs, which should do.

Thanks, I need to catch-up on Ryan's YT Channel.   Take care,  thanks,  Merry Christmas/HNY,  and have MORE FUN!    Vic


Vic,
One SPD per battery bank is what I am using.  I used the 115 on my 48 volt Lithiums.  I really like the fact that Ryan talked about SPDs for Lithium batteries. I think most of us are getting familiar with Lithium, but we have to remember the BMSs as well.  Good catch on Ryan's part, it did make me think.  Lead batteries are not going to care nearly as much as Lithium batteries if mother nature lights up our worlds.

I know it is off topic a bit, but SPDs really are one of those things you don't think about until you could have used one.  I now have them on everything I can protect.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year right back at you and yours.  Have fun setting up your new system. HB is a beast, Barcelona is twice the beast!.  Here in Texas,  I could easily make over 35 kWh a day with my HB and over70 kWh with one Barcelona. Get ready for real production! 
Title: Re: Barcelona Beta Testing in CA
Post by: Vic on December 19, 2022, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on December 18, 2022, 07:42:48 PM
Quote from: Vic on December 18, 2022, 06:36:28 PM
Dang,  just lost a medium-ish post  ...  the Net dropped out.

Briefly,  thanks for mentioning Wagos, have some here,  have never trusted them,  and they limit at #12 AWG for levers, and #10 for poke-home.

The wire nuts are just temporary single wire end,  capping, as the result of removing some hardware, like the KID, while the new wall was being erected.  The red wires are #6,  which is not Wagoagle  ...

Nuts, as you know, are NEC OK,  and UL Listed,  so,  we do trust them.

Glad that you have a shiny new HB CC,  and that new PV arrray to give it something to do.

73  Thanks for the spot on Wago,  keep warm.  Lows, mid 30s here, highs mid 40s,  bitter cold !  OH,  amma a wuss.   Take care, Vic
I have some Wago lever type that go up to 10 gauge. I trust them since I watched a video where someone put a whole string of different connectors in series then overloaded circuit to see which failed first. The Wago did as well as the wire nuts.
Yes it will be nice to get the controller here wired up. I could have filled up the batteries today if it was hooked up. 
Keep warm - it is going to be below zero here tonight !
Larry

Hi Larry,

Looked at the Wagos, about nine months ago ...  do not have perfect recall of the exact details.

I seem to "remember" that there were some inconsistencies in the Listing,  and/or, some limitation on the Vmax to 300V.

The main reservation,  was that of running fairly continuous currents,  near the max ratings, for hours on end.

For Listed ones,  this type of use must be OK.  I had felt that they might be more appropriate for LED lighting circuits,  etc.

I have no basis in experience of using them.  Had been looking for splicing doodads for use in rewiring the existing PVs here from strings of three, to strings of nine,  inside a poorly-accessible rooftop combiner.  Will go back and look at present Listings and AWG capabilities of available products.

Hope that you endured the sub-zero F temps, overnight !   That is far too old for this old guy!

73, thanks again,  for the suggestionon the Wagos.  Keep warm, Vic
Title: Re: Barcelona Beta Testing in CA
Post by: Vic on December 19, 2022, 01:48:53 PM
Quote from: Highflyer on December 18, 2022, 09:27:27 PM
Quote from: Vic on December 18, 2022, 03:55:53 PM
Quote from: Highflyer on December 18, 2022, 03:34:57 PM
Vic,
Consider adding a Midnite SPD for your Lithium batteries.  Ryan is right, Lithium batteries use BMSs.  Ryan talks about adding a SPD in one of his videos. I think it very prudent, so much so I have added one to each on my Lithium battery banks   ...

Hi Brian,

Are you saying,  one SPD per Li battery?   I do have some 115 V SPDs, which should do.

Thanks, I need to catch-up on Ryan's YT Channel.   Take care,  thanks,  Merry Christmas/HNY,  and have MORE FUN!    Vic


Vic,
One SPD per battery bank is what I am using.  I used the 115 on my 48 volt Lithiums.  I really like the fact that Ryan talked about SPDs for Lithium batteries. I think most of us are getting familiar with Lithium, but we have to remember the BMSs as well.  Good catch on Ryan's part, it did make me think.  Lead batteries are not going to care nearly as much as Lithium batteries if mother nature lights up our worlds.

I know it is off topic a bit, but SPDs really are one of those things you don't think about until you could have used one.  I now have them on everything I can protect.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year right back at you and yours.  Have fun setting up your new system. HB is a beast, Barcelona is twice the beast!.  Here in Texas,  I could easily make over 35 kWh a day with my HB and over70 kWh with one Barcelona. Get ready for real production!

Hi Brian,

I DO appreciate your reference to SPDs in general,  and SPDs on Li battery banks, to help protect the BMSes from surges.

TX does seem to get quite a few Thunderstorms,  so,  you know much more about damage from Lightning.

Historically,  we have very few local Lightning events. Usually in the Summer, we have about ten days of Monsunal WX from NM/AZ,  that occasionally results in some Lightning (but, even then,  is is mostly cloud-to-cloud).  However in Aug 2020, that werre a number of days around here with ground strikes, that started massive wildfires.  SO,  lightning does occur.

You are correct,  that SPDs are a lot like any Insurance  --  it is better to have protection,  in place,  even before an event!

So, we will be more proactive in installing SPD,  rather than just having them on the shelf.  Thank you for mentioning even protecting the batteries with them.

Thanks again,   and thank you for doing all of your Beta testing.   Have temporarily wired the battery connection for the Barcelona.  Need to mount the front panel,  and power it  (no PV input, yet).   Vic
Title: Re: Barcelona Beta Testing in CA
Post by: Vic on December 20, 2022, 05:35:36 PM
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on December 18, 2022, 07:42:48 PM
Quote from: Vic on December 18, 2022, 06:36:28 PMDang,  just lost a medium-ish post  ...  the Net dropped out.

Briefly,  thanks for mentioning Wagos, have some here,  have never trusted them,  and they limit at #12 AWG for levers, and #10 for poke-home.

The wire nuts are just temporary single wire end,  capping, as the result of removing some hardware, like the KID, while the new wall was being erected.  The red wires are #6,  which is not Wagoagle  ...

Nuts, as you know, are NEC OK,  and UL Listed,  so,  we do trust them.

Glad that you have a shiny new HB CC,  and that new PV arrray to give it something to do.

73  Thanks for the spot on Wago,  keep warm.  Lows, mid 30s here, highs mid 40s,  bitter cold !  OH,  amma a wuss.   Take care, Vic
I have some Wago lever type that go up to 10 gauge. I trust them since I watched a video where someone put a whole string of different connectors in series then overloaded circuit to see which failed first. The Wago did as well as the wire nuts.
Yes it will be nice to get the controller here wired up. I could have filled up the batteries today if it was hooked up. 
Keep warm - it is going to be below zero here tonight !
Larry

Hi Larry,

Now,  see #10 AWG Wago Lever nuts,  all over Amazon.   Previously,  did not see them there, after going to my fav Electrical Supply house  --  Platt Electric.   The chap there said that what they had (Levers, that went to #12, and poke homes to #10),   and said that that what was available.  (a new hire).

SO,  just ordered some Lever #10s,  and will give them a whirl.  Thanks for that mention.

Thanks for your video,  with that snow,  as a reminder of one of the reasons, to still live in CA!

We did the temporary, temporary connection of 'Barb',  the Barcelona CC here,  which included TWO Wire Nuts,  just for you.  'Twas on #6 AWG THHN,  with a 75 A breaker,  a bit overloaded   ...   but  ...   temporary.

Am looking at ways to install an additional, temporary PV array for Barb,  based on your inspiration.

Have found the Barcelona menu system, very intuitative.  Only had to look at the manual once, for one of the less-often used items.  The knob sure makes setting parameters very easy to enter ... Thanks to all who had a part in these design functions.

Later, thanks, 73,  Vic
Title: Re: Barcelona Beta Testing in CA
Post by: Vic on February 11, 2023, 08:14:17 PM
Update on testing:

Commissioned the Barcelona on Feb 8, with some of the only PV array at this site, removed from the Classic 150,  re-wired the string configuration from strings of three 72 Cell PVs, to three strings of three PVs (going from 106 V string Vmp, to 319 V, for Barcelona).

There have been significant WX delays,  and a bit of a foot-injury that has impeaded getting this done,  to this point.

The battery bank is FLA,   and have not gotten the BTS for the Barcelona connected yet,  and there is a significant amount to Temp Comp needed,  as the battery is about 10 C  ...   but the Barcelona plays quite well with the Classic 150,  with the Barcelona's Vabs set to about the Classic's comped Absorb voltage.

The battery voltage Sense leads are not yet connected,  and so on.

Barcelona is producing great power number,  am very impressed with how easy it is to change parameters and navigate between the menues,  and there is no info that is missing.

We have been planning on and trying to get some help,  installing an additional PV array at this site,  but,  Ready Mix concrete vendors will no longer come out to this very remote site.  Nor will skilled, or even un-skilled labor venture out here,  as,  they all are busy enough without making this trek.  Am too lazy to do the task by myself.  During storms,  this site is fairly windy,  fairly often,  so, the PV racking needs to be fairly stout.

SO,  thanks to Robin,  Ryan,  boB, and all of the MidNite crew,  testers,  and other folks who have contributed to the Barcelona, Hawke's Bay,  and Rosie,  for making some terrific new products.  They all are true works of art,  simply beautiful !

More later,  Thanks again,  Vic
Title: Re: Barcelona Beta Testing in CA
Post by: Vic on March 15, 2023, 12:30:02 PM
A very tardy update on this thread:

Did install the MN BTS for the Barcelona,  a month ago.
It is terrific that MidNite Engineering used the identical NTC Thermistor for the MN BTS,  as was used for the Outback MX-60 CC.  The venerable OB RTS used a 4-pin phone plug on the CC end,  and the MNBTS used a 6 pin phone plug.  So,  was able to use a phone 4 pin, to 6 pin adapter.  This allowed the use of the OB RTS with the Barcelona.  This is good,  as some new LFP batteries are now blocking access to the FLA battery box.  The OB RTS is on the same battery, as is the MN BTS, used by the Classic,  so they both track very well.

The Barcelona delivers more power to the battery, than does the Classic (in proportion to the its relative PV array size).

Speaking of Barcelona RFI:
The Barcelona's RFI, is essentially non existant,  just a very, very faint carrier, on our test Ham Band --  75 Meters.  There is a small Common Mode choke on the Barcelona PV cables, which was in the PV array cables, that were left over from the original PV installation, connecting to the ca 2005 MX-60 installation.

Cannot know if this  CM choke has reduced the Barcelona's RFI signature,  or, not. BUT, this very,  very low RFI on Barcelona,  is very impressive.  More great work by the MidNite development team!

One question:
In the Charge Time menu,  it seems that the Time In Float does NOT reset to 00:00, at the beginning of a new day  --  the previous Float time remains the time of the last Float,  for as many days that it takes to get into the next Float stage.   Is this the way it was intended to be?

More late,  thanks again,  Vic
Title: Re: Barcelona Beta Testing in CA
Post by: boB on March 15, 2023, 12:35:37 PM

Hi Vic

I also found that the EMI/RFI from the MPPTs are pretty darn low !

Not sure about Float time resetting around midnight but does it keep counting if the battery voltage is not kept up to the Float target voltage ?

I better check.  But I don't think it will and should reset its count when the MPPT starts charging the next morning.