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Charge Controllers and Clippers => The "Classic" charge controller => Topic started by: DMJ72 on January 22, 2023, 02:15:25 PM

Title: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: DMJ72 on January 22, 2023, 02:15:25 PM
Hey all,

This is a journey that started a few weeks ago, when I sold my Conext SW and Midnite E-Panel to a very nice couple on the south coast of Jamaica (where I live). Electricity costs are 5x more expensive / KWH than they are in the average US state. Just like everywhere else, you have the folks that can put down US$20,000+ on a solar system in one go, others can not and either have to take a loan or piece together something that can offset the light bill from an electricity company that is a monopoly.

One of their neighbours gifted them 8 ROLLS  flooded batteries and a used Classic 150SL that was "not working" and judging by the dust in the unit, it was in production for sometime. I could not find out a history of what happened to the unit, but I suspect too much voltage was applied to the PV at some stage or the other.

My initial inspection:

Opening up the unit:

Unfortunately the funds to replace the power-board are not available, and the couple aims to put future funds towards another classic to complete the pair and of course solar panels.

So my plan of action is to replace the mosfets with these:
https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-IRFB4115-DataSheet-v01_01-EN.pdf?fileId=5546d462533600a401535615ba6a1e0f (https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-IRFB4115-DataSheet-v01_01-EN.pdf?fileId=5546d462533600a401535615ba6a1e0f)

and to replace the two swollen capacitors (still trying to find a source for them).

I will be journalling the attempt at the repair here. I remember the early days when I had no RE system, and received help and motivation from others. Time to pay that back.

Wish me luck!

Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: DMJ72 on January 22, 2023, 02:48:05 PM
Some photos from the initial powerup of the unit (using a laptop 19V power brick).
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: wagreg on January 22, 2023, 04:02:41 PM
I am very interested to see how this turns out
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: ClassicCrazy on January 22, 2023, 05:53:12 PM
Contact Midnite. I am sure they have the parts you need and then you will know you get the correct ones.
Besides the capacitors and all the FET's , you will want to replace the fans too - the main and turbo fans. 
Larry
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: DMJ72 on January 23, 2023, 07:02:07 AM
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on January 22, 2023, 05:53:12 PMContact Midnite. I am sure they have the parts you need and then you will know you get the correct ones.
Besides the capacitors and all the FET's , you will want to replace the fans too - the main and turbo fans. 
Larry

Hey, good morning Larry. That is a good point, I did not think of that being possible for the FETS and the Capacitors. I know they sell the entire powerboard, and our local distributor has the fan kits in stock.

Maybe this thread might catch the eye of @Bob or @Robin Gudgel and they would be able to confirm. Come to think of it, when I get the time today, I will email support to see if they would sell me the components themselves.

Thanks.
David
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: DMJ72 on January 23, 2023, 09:28:19 AM
Update : So I found the MOSFETS (IRFB4115PBF) on Amazon (set of 10) :

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/11SxQr9MRlL.jpg)

https://www.amazon.com/IRFB4115PBF-Trans-MOSFET-3-Pin-220AB/dp/B07NHS3NWQ/ref=sr_1_2?crid=37VZ8Y2KBXH0P&keywords=irfb4115pbf&qid=1674483918&sprefix=%01%04%05%06%06%07%08%2Caps%2C387&sr=8-2&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc (https://www.amazon.com/IRFB4115PBF-Trans-MOSFET-3-Pin-220AB/dp/B07NHS3NWQ/ref=sr_1_2?crid=37VZ8Y2KBXH0P&keywords=irfb4115pbf&qid=1674483918&sprefix=%01%04%05%06%06%07%08%2Caps%2C387&sr=8-2&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc)
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: ClassicCrazy on January 23, 2023, 11:15:05 AM
If I had to use a vendor I think I would go with Digikey because you know you are getting the real thing and they are a good company.
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/infineon-technologies/IRFB4115PBF/2096589?s=N4IgTCBcDaIJICUBiAhALARgwVgAoqRAF0BfI

Larry
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: FNG on January 23, 2023, 12:07:35 PM
If you run into issues sourcing let me know ryan@midnitesolar.com I can probably assist some if needed
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: boB on January 23, 2023, 06:29:30 PM
Those FETs, the IRFB4115s look good.  There are 4 FETs per "cylinder" (the power section is split into 2 halves), 2 buck converters each with 4 FETs...

If the Classic has been running continuously in a warm/hot environment, then that could age the capacitors faster than normal.

Yes, let's see what support says. Just one FET being shorted should not make the PV input read zero though.  I suspect there may be more than one FET shorted ?  They do not have to be in the same cylinder though.  A cylinder is one buck converter BTW.

It sounds  like you pretty much know what you are doing !  Those FETs can be difficult to replace though.  Only because there is so much copper in that PCB.  It is 4 layers.

I also notice from looking at the serial number that is appears to be "unprogrammed".  That serial number is an unprogrammed 32 bit number around 4 billion.  Not sure why that would be ?

But things light up and the fans turn on etc so that is a good thing to start with !

How I like to replace FETs is to take one larger iron that can straddle all 3 pins and pull it out.  Then, while that area is hot, re-insert the newer FET.

Also check the gate resistors which should be around 10 Ohms.

Keep us posted please

boB

Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: FNG on January 24, 2023, 07:17:01 AM
Serial # makes sense, this is an SL and Midnite does not burn the serial # into the memory on the SLs
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: boB on January 24, 2023, 10:54:03 AM
Quote from: FNG on January 24, 2023, 07:17:01 AMSerial # makes sense, this is an SL and Midnite does not burn the serial # into the memory on the SLs

Oh yeah.  Forgot.  No Ethernet on SL.  They COULD still burn a serial number into an SL but it is harder to do.

Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: DMJ72 on January 26, 2023, 05:43:56 PM
Sorry for the late reply!

Thank you all very much for the words of encouragement on this thread. I am going to get down to ordering the parts starting with the FETs from the retailer classicCrazy suggested!

I will post updates as soon as I have them... :D
DMJ
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: Wizbandit on January 27, 2023, 07:53:04 AM
Shorted FET's on the Classic usually damage the FET DRIVER IC's as well.  Putting in new FET's without replacing the drivers you will probably end up with another bunch of shorted FET's...
Going from memory I think they are ONSEMI FOD3120 chips but don't hold me to that...
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: boB on January 27, 2023, 09:36:45 AM
Quote from: Wizbandit on January 27, 2023, 07:53:04 AMShorted FET's on the Classic usually damage the FET DRIVER IC's as well.  Putting in new FET's without replacing the drivers you will probably end up with another bunch of shorted FET's...
Going from memory I think they are ONSEMI FOD3120 chips but don't hold me to that...

Yes, the 3120 from On Semi or Fairchild.  On Semi bought Fairchild a few years ago.

Originally this driver was the HP or Avago  HCPL3120.   It is an opto-coupled part with an LED inside.

This part has been used a LOT in all sorts of inverters and charge controllers over the years.

The driver does not always break when the FETs go though.  Good idea to check though.

Also, don't forget to check the gate resistor.  Somewhere around 10 Ohms

boB
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: DMJ72 on March 31, 2023, 08:30:53 PM
Just and update : I have been swamped with work and unable to order the parts.

Right now I am in discussion with the folks, to figure out if it makes sense to fix the board, or just to buy a new 13-003-1 power board on Amazon :

https://www.amazon.com/MidNite-Solar-Classic-Replacement-13-003-1/dp/B07N4GPLS3/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2SOJ3WD6POMTS&keywords=MidNite+Solar+Classic+Replacement+Power+Board&qid=1680308864&sprefix=midnite+solar+classic+replacement+power+board%2Caps%2C133&sr=8-1

Will keep you updated..
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: DMJ72 on March 31, 2023, 09:00:18 PM
Hey guys, its me again ..

Am I on the right track in picking these Capacitors ?

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/nichicon/LGW2D182MELB50/1966868

Digi-Key Part Number
493-8526-ND
Manufacturer
Nichicon
Manufacturer Product Number
LGW2D182MELB50
Description
CAP ALUM 1800UF 20% 200V SNAP
Manufacturer Standard Lead Time
35 Weeks
Detailed Description
1800 µF 200 V Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors Radial, Can - Snap-In 3000 Hrs @ 105°C
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: boB on April 01, 2023, 12:00:23 PM
That cap should be OK.

The main thing is the lead spacing.  Will look that up....


Capacitor, electrolytic, Polarized, 1800uF 200V, THH Package Dia 35mm LS 10mm

SO the lead spacing is 10 mm   

That's  0.39   inches  which is not usually  specified in inches as far as I know.

boB


Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: DMJ72 on April 01, 2023, 08:58:03 PM
Thanks Bob, that is the exact spacing of the Jianghai Caps that are in there from midnite.

Ordering now! :D
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: DMJ72 on May 09, 2023, 09:02:31 AM
Update: the parts have arrived, but I ran into an issue last night with my soldering iron. Not enough power to remove the parts, esp the capacitors. Going to try source a more powerful one with a wider tip today..

Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: boB on May 09, 2023, 01:37:12 PM
I do not see your soldering iron but this power board is a 4 layer 4 ounce copper board that requires a big tip as well as more than 100 watt iron.   I use a 200 watt iron for any work on the through-hole components on this power board.

Good luck !  Keep us posted.

boB
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: DMJ72 on May 21, 2023, 03:24:39 PM
Sigh .... the capacitors are not the right size, don't think this will clear the enclosure.  >:(  >:(  >:(

At this point .. I feel to just give up and tell her to buy a board.....

Let me clear my head and re-evaluate .. what to do next.

Screenshot 2023-05-21 at 2.20.42 PM.png
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: ClassicCrazy on May 21, 2023, 06:13:00 PM
Is it possible to extend the leads on capacitors, put some insulation on them, and lay them at and angle or sideways so they fit ? Not sure if that is okay electronically or not but I just watched a video of Mr Carlson doing that on a repair-  though it was just on a small speaker capacitor.
https://youtu.be/FvH9KS8BN1k?t=1616
Larry
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: DMJ72 on May 23, 2023, 08:00:35 AM
Hi @ClassicCrazy and folks.

Just spoke to the nice couple who own this Charge Controller. They have elected to replace the power board going forward.

Can you confirm that it is the 13-003-1 model number that we are to order ? (its a Classic 150 SL)
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: ClassicCrazy on May 23, 2023, 09:28:21 AM
Quote from: DMJ72 on May 23, 2023, 08:00:35 AMHi @ClassicCrazy and folks.

Just spoke to the nice couple who own this Charge Controller. They have elected to replace the power board going forward.

Can you confirm that it is the 13-003-1 model number that we are to order ? (its a Classic 150 SL)
You should contact Midnite directly about that.
https://www.midnitesolar.com/support.php
Larry
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: qrper on May 23, 2023, 10:17:04 AM
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on May 21, 2023, 06:13:00 PMIs it possible to extend the leads on capacitors, put some insulation on them, and lay them at and angle or sideways so they fit ? Not sure if that is okay electronically or not but I just watched a video of Mr Carlson doing that on a repair-  though it was just on a small speaker capacitor.
https://youtu.be/FvH9KS8BN1k?t=1616
Larry

I suspect from the photo, the new capacitors are LONGER than the original  ones.

Mike
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: DMJ72 on May 23, 2023, 10:22:42 AM
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on May 23, 2023, 09:28:21 AMYou should contact Midnite directly about that.
https://www.midnitesolar.com/support.php
Larry

Yeah, confirmed via their Classic Parts page on the Midnite Website.
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: DMJ72 on May 23, 2023, 10:24:18 AM
Quote from: qrper on May 23, 2023, 10:17:04 AMI suspect from the photo, the new capacitors are LONGER than the original  ones.

Mike

Yeah Mike, that is the problem indeed. The couple has decided to just buy a new board from MS or their Amazon store.
Title: Re: Project Pay it Forward : The Classic 150SL repair
Post by: DMJ72 on July 28, 2023, 11:17:19 AM
5a1df90c-beec-4e28-a03e-53298827fb62.jpg

It's ALIVE!!!!!

Thanks for all the help folks, I got the official MidNite Solar power board and a new Turbo Fan Shroud.