Will a Classic/Clipper Combo work with this wind generator?

[tuckersnocat]

OK, I'll let you know.
Thanks.

[SolarWind]

I have a Proven 2.5kw, older model and one of the reliable ones. It's on a 48v battery and using a Classic 200 with a Clipper 1.6. I was unable to get the AC voltage specs for it. Proven spares should be available from Kingspan in the UK as they acquired some of the assets of Proven and are building the turbines.

The big challenge I had with the Classic/Clipper/Proven is providing the right wind curve. Ryan & boB said they would work on getting something figured out but in the meantime I have experimented with building my own curve by trial and error. Still hoping Midnite will implement learning mode in the Classic sometime soon.

Here's the contact info for Kingspan:
Kingspan Renewables Ltd?Wardhead Park, Stewarton, Ayrshire, KA3 5LH?Tel: +44 (0) 1560 486 570?Fax: +44 (0) 1560 486 580?http://www.kingspanwind.com

[animatt]

Original Post timed out this will be much shorter.
Looking to use this turbine

http://www.ginlong.com/wind-turbine-pmg-pma-permanent-magnet-generator-alternator-GL-PMG-1800.htm

Bought it for what I think was a deal.  I bought it without many specs.Just that whole setup was rated at 2kw. It came out of a tswind setup.Maybe defunct company. Their website very outdated. I planned to use a classic with it anyway now it is just using a 250 instead of a 150. Rotor is roughly 10ft. I think actually like 9'9" or something close.

As can be seen really high voltage.  I am hoping to use a classic lite 250 with a clipper and  get about 1200 watts out of the generator. 6 amps x ~200v

There is a spring in the head for furling.  I would like to adjust/modify it so it furls in lower winds.  Around the 1200 watt level.  I really have to test it out.  Idea is to get a fairly good lower wind performance.I know not much power there.  But still would like to have 50-100 watts of power coming into batteries.  Mainly to cover some overnight usage.  Day time handled mostly by solar. During daytime stormy weather I could accept a higher input(higher than 100w) to offset solar losses.

looking to charge 24v batteries.  only 470ah.  Loads are not great, but if I have more energy to burn I will definitely find uses for it. Wind turbine will be in a fairly mild wind area with possiblity of higher winds mostly in a few larger storms.

Hand spinning shaft gives peak 80-90vdc after rectifier.

I have several pure sine inverter but nothing grid tie. So prefer direct battery charging.

Any opinions.

Thanks
Matthew

I also took the gen head apart and will post picks tomorrow. I am guessing windings are about 18awg. Although it does look like the design works well as a heatsink so I imagine marginally over 6amps may not be a terribly thing. 

[dgd]

From the specs the turbine produces 300V at 6 amps, clearly its designed to drive a grid tie inverter.
Your plan to use it to charge batteries, 24v, is interesting but not unusual as others have wanted to use these high voltage turbines to charge low voltage batteries.
I must admit it surprised me to see a Clipper is thought to be a solution to this issue, in your case you say you want 200v at 6a then feed it into a Classic 250. It appears that the purpose of the Clipper is to reduce the 300V from the turbine into 200V so  the Clipper will 'burn' off 100v at 6A or 600W from the 1800w made by the turbine leaving you the 200v at 6a or 1200W to give the Classic 250 for battery charging.
I'm not sure this will actually happen, or could happen as I understood the Clipper does  not do this. I could be wrong and usually am wrong but I think the Clipper simply shorts the AC outputs from the turbine via some resistors and by doing this loads the turbine, slows it down and the voltage reduces to a level depending on where you have set the voltage limit in the Clipper.
To reduce it to 200V probably means the turbine will be way low down on its power production graph, may be an amp or so.
So getting a consistent and reliable 1200W may not be achievable (IMHO)
Also is the Clipper spec'ed to handle 300V input?
Maybe others more Clipper knowledgeable  than me can assure you what you are planning is good.

dgd

[animatt]

I really do not care to have 1200 watt production, just thought up to that amount maybe doable  I am just looking for low wind production.  Something like 50w-300w of power would be very useful especially in lower wind conditions.

After that I do not care.  Definitely want it to furl earlier so I would not have to deal with the extra power. This would require some messing around with some springs. Maybe even have it furl as early as 15-17mph. Really depends where power level is at that point.

Also not sure how easy it would be to modify it to delta rather than star wiring.  My understanding is it would drop voltage by a factor of 1.7x.


I guess I will upload pictures first and see what people think about a readjustment of wiring.

My idea would be for the classic to start loading turbine around 150v-200v. From there continue loading it to hold it to around 200v.  I say 200v to leave what I believe is a good margin. But if 225-240v is still reliable I have no issues there.

My understanding of the clipper is to protect the classic. I was thinking the classic loading the turbine would keep voltage levels down, but if batteries are charged, or wind really pickup the clipper is there to protect the classic.

Thanks for the reply.  Looking forward to other comments as well.

matthew

[animatt]

Okay here is the picture of the windings.

The blue in the photo is RTV sealant.  I nicked the windings taking it out.  Nothing is shorted, but to cover nicks.  Also broke the winding in one spot. It has been solder and sealant applied.  I did not know what to apply and figured the RtV would provide some protection. Bad move??  Where do I get appropriate epoxy for the job?

Anyway.  A,B, and C each connected to a thicker aluminum wire(3 wires in total) that extended out of the head. 

Af,Bf, and Cf were all connected together.


Now going to rewire in delta.  Again if I am not mistaken voltage will go down by a factor of 1.7x This should put me in a good rpm range for use with the classic 250.

I used ohm meter to determine which wires were which. Each tested at 5.8 ohms

Now question.  How does one connect the wiring to make delta.

Does it matter? I plan to connect A to Bf,   B to Cf, and C to Af.

Is that any different than say A to Cf, B to Af and C to Bf. 

I have read it does not matter just looking for confirmation. 


Once in delta that rpm to voltage charts will be drastically different. What was once 400v  450rpm corresponding to 1800 watts will now be 235v 450rpm at 1800 watt.

I would think my purposed idea would work alot better in this new situation?


Does the clipper have an upper working voltage. With delta wiring if permitted to spin up it looks like 300v could be possible.  Modifying for earlier furling should help there.


Matthew

[animatt]

Have now wired up it up in delta.

Ohm reading between any of the three lead now 4.1 ohms.

ohm reading between A and Af  was 5.8 ohms.

I forgot to measure ohm reading in star configuration. I sure it could be calculated.  I have a spare gen head and will measure it there. It should be the same.

Will put the now delta wire stator back in the generator. Give it a spin and see where I can get rectified voltages to spike to.

I am thinking around 50v

Again any idea of what voltage limit of CLiPPER IS?
matthew

[boB]

Have now wired up it up in delta.

Ohm reading between any of the three lead now 4.1 ohms.

ohm reading between A and Af  was 5.8 ohms.

I forgot to measure ohm reading in star configuration. I sure it could be calculated.  I have a spare gen head and will measure it there. It should be the same.

Will put the now delta wire stator back in the generator. Give it a spin and see where I can get rectified voltages to spike to.

I am thinking around 50v

Again any idea of what voltage limit of CLiPPER IS?
matthew

You will have to run the alternator and find out the general open circuit voltages but for sure,
the maximum voltage you will want it to clip at is 249 volts for a classic 250 so the classic
never has to have a reason not to turn on.

boB

[animatt]

is there an upper voltage limit to clipper operations?

If I successfully changed wiring to delta it will put me in good territory with the classic 250 in terms of rpm to volts. 

Not sure you checked the link to the generator operating voltage. But was very high previously.
http://www.ginlong.com/wind-turbine-pmg-pma-permanent-magnet-generator-alternator-GL-PMG-1800.htm

thanks for reply
matthew

[boB]

I just spent a 1/2 hour typing up a response and my wifi crashed.  windoze 7 virus  or the Dell laptop hardware.

Anyway, those graphs are not an MPPT power curve.  They need to show power  (watts)  vs. volts.

It shows power vs. RPM and open circuit (freewheeling) volts  vs. RPM which won't mean much because
it is unloaded.  The Clipper will keep the turbine and alternator from going above 250 Volts or
so which is all the higher it would need to hold it down to to keep the Classic from turning off from
going into HyperVOC  (> 250V)

You also need to put blades on that Ginlong to correlate RPM with wind speed correctly.
Then, if the source impedance/resistance of that Ginlong is very low, the max power point
would be higher than 250 V from the open circuit voltage vs. RPM graph but not as high
as it shows open circuit.  That alternator is probably meant to connect up to a Windy
Boy or Power One Aurora grid tie inverter but the curve will depend on more than
just the alternator itself to be precise.  Wind learn mode is in the works for the Classic
but will be a while still.

boB

[animatt]

Thanks for the reply.

Ohm reading between phases when wired star was ~11 ohm I can not remember exactly.  Delta wiring is at 4.2 ohms between phases. 

With 6 leads exposed(prior to rewiring) I tested each set and between beginning and ending and was roughly 5.7-5.8 ohms.  This was all measured with a cheap meter I am sure not super accurate.

It seems I messed up wiring the delta as there is major cogging.  My lesson for working tired and at night. Have it opened back up and will hopefully straighten out wiring today.   

The gen head came with blades. Not sure if they are garbage or not though. Will see how they perform later.  I really only interested in the lower end power output anyway.

I will probably have it furl at less than 20mph.  between 50w-300w  is where i am really interested in. I only have a 24v 470ah battery array.  Have 1000w coming in for any length of time would be all diversion load anyway.

The whole setup recommends a ginlong inverter for grid tie operation.

I looked at the aurura ones and not a bad way to go.  Properly sized ones seem to be able to be had for less than $1000.
I am just not on the grid and do not have a fancy inverter to simulate the grid.

I was aware those graphs were not mppt.  If i am correct voltages should be lower under normal operation(without clipper intervention)

with delta modification ~1.7x lower voltage.

You would not have any classic 250's getting ready for the scratch and dent sale?

I know classic are already the charge controller for battery charging from wind, but with learning mode wow, would be even better.

That would just be a firmware upgrade?


Anyway thanks for your response.
Matthew