Tare Losses, Cut-in Power Level

[TomW]

Hi.  I posted this over at wind-sun.com and was told to repost the question over here.  This seemed to be the appropriate thread, even though it too is over 2 years old.

Thanks in advance for your response,


Willy

-----

Originally Posted by halfcrazy 

"The idle draw is important to us and I can assure you we will work to bring that way down. Possibly even having a super sleep mode based on sunset and sunrise where we turn almost everything off."

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but 2 years later has there been any progress on this issue? It is very important to me.

Thanks,


Willy

Willy;

Not sure I understand your question?

I would suggest you start a new thread on this and be as detailed as possible with information.

Someone here probably has the information you need.

Tom

[mtdoc]

Hi.  I posted this over at wind-sun.com and was told to repost the question over here.  This seemed to be the appropriate thread, even though it too is over 2 years old.

Thanks in advance for your response,


Willy

-----

Originally Posted by halfcrazy 

"The idle draw is important to us and I can assure you we will work to bring that way down. Possibly even having a super sleep mode based on sunset and sunrise where we turn almost everything off."

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but 2 years later has there been any progress on this issue? It is very important to me.

Thanks,


Willy

Since no one was answering and I was curious I went ahead and measured this on both of my Classics during "Resting".  Using a milliamp resolution clamp meter I got 112 milliamps at 55 Volts or just over 6 watts.  I confirmed this reading on one of my Classics with my Fluke 87V.   Not bad, but I'm not totally up to date on my firmware (I've missed the last few updates) so maybe it's lower now.

[boB]

Well, there has been a hardware change that makes it able to turn off the arc fault board at night (remove power)
and of course the Classic Lite doesn't have an arc fault board OR an MNGP.  The MNGP draws a watt or so.
Without those two items, the power draw is more like 3 watts.
When the arc fault board gets powered off and the MNGP goes to sleep, power draw should
be around 3.5 watts  (maybe 3.75 at most )

How old is your classic hardware ?

Eventually, at night, the Classic itself and MNGP can go to sleep  (low power processor mode) and
should drop the power down to 4 watts or so from your measured 6 watts just from software.
There had to be hardware changes to really drop the power though which happened around
1/2 a year ago.  That was the arc fault board turn off circuitry and another internal
power supply rail from the aux switcher.

Eventually, when power down at night is selectable, this will stop the Ethernet from running
at night which is a compromise.

boB

[mtdoc]

OK thanks boB

My first classic is about 2 yrs old (serial no about 1000) and my second is about 18 months old (serial no about 1800 I think).  I have another  classic not installed yet that is about 1 yr old.

I'm actually fine with a 6 watt idle draw since I am grid tied and have a fairly large system - though of course lower is always better.  But for those with smaller, off grid systems every little bit is important.  I know that the poster Willy seemed quite concerned about this number as he had posted over at the NAWS forum as well.

[Willyarnold]

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this. I got sidetracked. 

I bought my Classic 150 on Black Friday of last year (2012) and when I checked, I believe it was drawing about 4 watts on idle (Klien clamp meter). I guess if you have a big system or a grid tie system, that's not a big deal, but right now I have a standby/emergency system and until I go out and invest in a battery bank, just one 4D battery. 4 watts x 16? hours will cycle my single battery (which is not otherwise being used) more than I would like. And please forgive me for bringing up the competition, but Outback has got theirs down to less than 1 watt on standby. I had read the above quoted statement when (or maybe before) I bought my Classic believing that in time you could bring the idle draw down in firmware.

"The idle draw is important to us and I can assure you we will work to bring that way down. Possibly even having a super sleep mode based on sunset and sunrise where we turn almost everything off." - Halfcrazy

I guess at this point I am asking if there is anything I can do to bring my idle draw down as much as possible. For instance, if arc fault is a constant draw, can I disable it completely? (even by cutting a wire?)

If nothing else, maybe I can set up a way to just disconnect it every night.

Thanks in advance for any input you guys can offer.


Willy

[Rybren]

You can turn arc fault off through the menu settings. I believe that it's in Tweaks.

I can't, however, say whether the software on/off will affect the power draw.

[boB]

You can turn arc fault off through the menu settings. I believe that it's in Tweaks.

I can't, however, say whether the software on/off will affect the power draw.

Right now the Arc fault does not go "OFF" as far as its power.

Next revision should change that if the hardware has the capability.
i.e.  if the serial number is over a certain #.  The hardware to be able
to reduce that draw has been in there for a while now...  maybe a few
thousand Classics.

So for those and the next firmware rev, turning off AF should also un-power it.
That will bring your tare losses down some.

As far as Classic Lites' go, they draw somewhere between 2.75 watts and
3.25 watts depending on battery voltage


boB

[Willyarnold]

Eventually, when power down at night is selectable, this will stop the Ethernet from running
at night which is a compromise.

boB

That sounds promising.  Any idea when this will be available?

[zoneblue]

If 4W * 24h deep cycles your bank, have you thought about getting a smaller controller at all?

[Halfcrazy]

Well 4w times 16 hours is 48Wh so at 12 volts that is 4AH So if one looked at a pair of golf cart batteries that are 220AH the Classic could run for 330 hours and still be above 50%, 110AH*12V=1320WH/4W=330Hours

Ryan

[boB]

Eventually, when power down at night is selectable, this will stop the Ethernet from running
at night which is a compromise.

boB

That sounds promising.  Any idea when this will be available?

No, I do not have an idea at this time.   This option would only meant that the main
processor itself may go to sleep at night and will not reduce consumption as much
as actually turning the power off to the Ethernet electronics...  But it should
certainly help and lower the idle/tare losses.

boB

[Willyarnold]

Yeah, I guess it's time to just break down and buy some batteries.  Found a place in Miami that has GC-2 225 AH (off brand) for only $79 each. But I still look forward to any updates that will bring down the idle draw.

Thanks everyone for the input.


Willy