Beta KIDs

[dapdan]

K,

I set the controller to normal and it still did the same thing. Hung at blue screen and controller non responsive. Power cycle brings back regular operation.

Cheers...
Damani

[dapdan]

I have set the kid to charge some batteries at 48v and it has not locked up at the blue screen since. It has been about 3 days. I will monitor and report. I will setup 24v when I am finished charging my 48v bank of batteries. Strange thing are happening.

Damani

[Mario]

Damini,
Maybe I didn't read the post right the first time but are you saying that, the kid the screen goes blank and the back light on and it doesn't come on again.... do you mean just the LCD or the whole unit doesn't start charging the next morning?
Mario

[dapdan]

Mario,

When the kid lock up the screen is blank(no characters) and light blue. It is also unresponsive(no buttons will cause any change from the hung state. The only course of action to bring back to normarl operation is a power cycle. When in the hung state it does not charge or do anything except to be a blue night light. When the sun comes up the following day it remains in that hung blue screen state(as I discover it generally in the morning, I have discovered that it gets hung from sundown since I would check on it regularly at the end of each day). Since I have switched to a 48v bank (the hung state was occurring with a 12v bank) it has not been in the hung blue screen state as yet (or for a few days anyways).

Cheers...
Damani

[tecnodave]

Mario,

My Kidd is doing the same thing that Damani's was doing. After a full day of normal charging screen was blank with  backlight on with no characters visible. Power cycling restores normal screen but next morning screen was blank again. Blue back light and no characters visible, does not respond to button press or input and output voltage variations, only power cycling will reset it.

Just before this event I observed the output current would go up and down by several amps very rapidly at about 5 oscillations per second. This continued through the day until sunset. This has not been seen before as the output is normally very stable with much slower variations in current

I had been experimenting with P&O and O&P mode and the current wandering started. The current oscillations was the same in Solar , P&O , and O&P. Before the experiment with modes the Kidd was working normally at about 240 watts , 12.6 volts with a very stable current output. Multiple resetting of the modes was not able to stop the oscillations.

For a test I swapped the Kidd input and output to a Tracer controller and the rapid current swings were not seen so I was able to verify it is not in the system connections but is the Kidd.

After about 6 power cycles Kidd is now working normally without the oscillation. 7.3 amps, 13.3 volts, 97 watts, 330 watt array, 6 X Siemens SM-55 connected in three strings of two. V@ Pmax=34.4

Edit,  just to clarify when the screen goes to blank, Kidd does not respond to any input, only removing battery connection will cause a response

[tecnodave]

Mario,

Further testing reveals that this was caused by switching to legacy P&O. The current wandering has returned and Kidd goes from resting to bulk mppt , no power out. Switching to Solar 2 O$P Kidd output current will oscillate for about 5 seconds then settle on a stable value. Same results on solar. Stable output, problem seems limited to legacy mode but problem does not go away when switched back to solar mode, power cycling is only way to restore normal operation.

Current oscillations are so rapid that it is not possible to get stable readings on digital meters but are very apparent on high resolution analog meters and using Hall effect sensors hooked to oscilloscope.

Test equipment:    Fluke 23 (industrial version of 77).  Current cert.
                            Fluke 87 V.      Current cert
                             Simpson 260-5.    Current cert.
                             Snap-on analog alternator/regulator tester repurposed as solar tester,  calibrated               
                              Tectronics 3455 scope (4channel 350 MHz, dual sweep) current cert.

Kidd is now back in solar mode and working normally, output is stable with normal MPPT sweeping seen. Output stable 155 watts from 330 watt array 8:30 am , panels orientated at 2:00pm sun

[Robin]

This is great detective work. I am confident that Mario will be able to fix this condition with your help.
Thanks,
Robin

[tecnodave]

Robin and Mario,

Problem has resurfaced in solar mode, variation is +/- 15 % of output current

Air temp at controller location 95 F.,   CPU 41c, FET , 39c 
Mode solar 1,  absorb. Volts steady at 14.7 amps 2.8 varying +/- 15%

The Kidd has never done this output current wobble before. I use the Kidd to supplement my Classic on the 24 volt bank as well and the Kidd never did this on 24v
Testing will continue through this heat wave and I will post test results

David

[Westbranch]

David, can't remember if you said you updated your Beta or not ? if not would that be a source of the issue?
(97 posts... I forget)

[tecnodave]

WB

I am running original beta as I do not have a windows 7 computer to upgrade also do not have drag n drop uploader. How do I find the rev. Number?   My unit is so early that I do not have a serial number yet. I was first to ask when Robin first started this thread. No regrets......did prove how limited the Tracers are.


The problem was the worst yesterday, very hot!!! High 90's and large load on the Kidd , today the situation is better but over 100 today but Kidd is lightly loaded. Current oscillated until about 3:00 PDT then stopped on its own. Current very steady now.

4:25 p.m. PDT. air temp at controller 99.5F....38c.   CPU  42c.  FET's 40c.    4 degrees c temp rise
Solar 1 mode, float, 13.0v 1.4 a 

Switching to legacy mode does not reintroduce oscillations, but output falls to zero and Kidd is resting

Switching to O&P mode does not reintroduce oscillations, output ..float 1.4 a

Switching to solar 1 mode does not reintroduce oscillations


My conclusion: high external temperature and heavy load were present both times current oscillations were present

Unit left in solar one mode.  Will be a scorcher tomorrow so I will load up the Kidd to max power to charge the classic's bank of L-16's....currently 4 days no charge....at about 60% SOC

td

Edit: additional instrumentation used at all stages.    Fluke 52 dual channel J/K thermocouple meter
                                                                            Current cert.     accuracy >2%

[Westbranch]

SN was written on the box, and also inside KID,  you will need a new BOOTLOADER from Ryan to do the upgrade of the FW. PM him.

You may have read my tale in another posting about trying to upgrade FW in my classics.  I want to do them first then proceed to the Beta KID...

[Mario]

tecnodave, a couple of things.....
the current is moving because you mention is in Absorb..... at this stage the output Voltage to the battery will be regulated steady and the output current will be doing whatever it needs to do to keep the voltage at the set point, so you will see oscillation on the current, that's normal.... there are variables that will contribute to how much the oscillation is, for example battery temperature, battery load,  amount of power available on the input of the kid.
Then if you are running stock firmware on a Beta.......... ummm you need to upgrade it, please borrow a W7 machine if possible, see, the problem is that I cannot tell if the problems you are experiencing have been fixed with a Firmware update.
I am about to release a new firmware with some bug fixes and added features. I really would like to know if you still have problems with the latest release.
Oh and the only modes to use(which are fully functional) are: Solar, Solar 2 O&P and U-SET Voc %. Legacy is not fully functional.

The reason why your kid LCD is going blank overnight could be because your battery is going too low.... you have 12v battery bank, can you check to see if I am correct on this and see how low does your battery get when the kid fails overnight?

Mario

[tecnodave]

WB

There is no serial number on my unit at all, not inside or on the box, not in the menu,s.

Oh well I was first on the list so this may have been overlooked. I did see the posts about the tag taped in the box but no avail. There is no numbers at all on my unit or it's packaging.

td

[tecnodave]

Mario,

Yesterday was the worst of the current oscillations, mode was Solar and was in bulk MPPT mode when I changed mode to Legacy P&O , then the current wobble started and did that for about 6 hours yesterday. The battery was fully charged by 6:00 pm but the controller was still working as I could hear the relay clicking as it went to resting mode. About 9:00 pm PDT yesterday the screen was blank, no characters but bright blue backlight.pressing buttons had no effect. Power cycling brought Kidd back to life but this morning screen was blank again, backlight only, voltage was checked at 12.4 volts
This is a backup system as my Classic and L-16's are my main system (24 volt) and night load is very minimal. The Kidd did the current wobble for several hours then stopped on its own.

I have seen the current wobble when there is no significant load on the system and during Bulk, and absorb modes. All of my 120 volt loads are on the 24 volt system as well as most of my 12 volt loads are served by a Samlex DC-DC converter run off the 24 volt system.

The only common threads are experimenting with modes and high temperatures.
It is still in the 90's at 6:45 pm PDT air temp at controller 32c.  CPU 37c.  FET. 34c mode solar 1 float MPPT 12.7 v. 1.4 a

Please advise,   This must be a windows 7 machine to do upgrade? My friend has a Windows 8 machine which is hacked to look like windows 7. I used this machine to upgrade my Classic.
Worked fine, have not upgraded because I do not want to brick the unit.

Thanks for the help

td

[Robin]

Mario will chime in here soon. We have him burning the midnight oil to get a new revision of the circuit board done. He is adding auto gen start for a big customer. Mario is also adding some circuitry so he can add a daughter card that give additional features. One feature is dead battery boot. The KID and most other controllers will not be able to wake up and charge based on PV alone. They all require a battery to be connected and about 8 volts of charge. His new additional board is some sort of power supply that will allow the PV to boot up the KID and then try to charge a stone dead battery. The other feature is a power supply to power a small fan. We might make a new back cover that has a 40mm fan on the inside of the KID attached to the new back cover. The KID will run extremely cool in very hot climates with this fan. Don't know that we will ever complete this new back cover, but more than likely we will. There are all sorts of screwy applications where the addition of a fan may be a good thing to do.
If any of you need these features, we can work out some sort of deal to get them to you cheap.
Thanks,
Robin