Classic 150 Equalize Issues

[Resthome]

boB

Since it looks like you are getting close to releasing another firmware update I wanted to bring this issue up again and ask if it has been address. See previous thread on issue.

http://midniteforum.com/index.php?topic=1891.15

boB, is this new firmware update going to take care of the issue of the Equalize function somehow getting into the Start Equalize function rather than defaulting back to the Stop Equalized when Equalize has finished. I just saw this again when I made a trip to the lake to check on things. I was changing the Rebulk value and when I hit enter to save the setting the controller jumped to Equalized when I went to the Equalize menu sure enough the Equalize Start option was showing. This has been brought up in the forums before and I believe you were aware of it but don't see anything in the new Readme file about it being fixed. Hopefully it can be included as with everything else Midnite has going on the firmware updates are getting few and far between.

[boB]

Thanks John...

I am testing a unit right now up in the lab to see if this problem has been fixed.

It is kind of hard to find as it (of course) never happens here.  I think I saw it ONCE here
and all of the registers/settings and things looked completely normal.

Still looking.  The new firmware we are working on ~may~  make this better.

Not sure quite yet.  More testing is needed.

boB

[Resthome]

Thanks boB,

Just having it default to Equalize Stop after an Equalize cycle and maybe even after you hit the Start have it go back and stay at STOP as long as it allow the Equalized cycle to continue and requires an Enter to actual stop may help this. As it seems to occur when it completes a manual Equalize cycle and then stays in Equalize Start.  Then if you are hit Enter to save data to the Classic it seem to start the Equalize. Not sure what state it is in after a VMM. I'm 3 hours away from it so not much help.  I do use the LA a lot but I don't think it is coming from the LA at least in my last case it happened when I hit Enter to save a new Rebulk value. I also don't use Auto Equalize and I have never seen it Equalize when I am away from the unit. The daily data dump never shows an Equalize voltage anyway.

Just went back and read that old thread. Does it have to be in Equalize Start for the Auto Equalize to function, Is that true??  I would still want to see it default to STOP. And maybe have a different switch to start Auto Equalize. Per your quote "And, yes, the EQ menu ~should~ go back to EQ STOPPED.  Sorry...  I will look into this."

[boB]

John, I'm not exactly sure what you asking here ?  I sort of am but some of you terminology is
not quite jiving with my brain.

For example,  STOP ?  Do you mean "EQ STOPPED" ?  Hit enter where ?

No, EQ STARTED (or is that START) does NOT need to be set in order for an Auto EQ to run.

Please excuse my old brain here.  Also I am not in front of a CC right now.

boB

[Resthome]

John, I'm not exactly sure what you asking here ?  I sort of am but some of you terminology is
not quite jiving with my brain.

For example,  STOP ?  Do you mean "EQ STOPPED" ?  Hit enter where ?

No, EQ STARTED (or is that START) does NOT need to be set in order for an Auto EQ to run.

Please excuse my old brain here.  Also I am not in front of a CC right now.

boB

I don't have one to look at either, so when I said Stop I meant EQ STOPPED.
When I mentioned Enter I am referring to the button pressed to save setting to the Classic EPROM. I believe you have to press enter with the EQ STOP or EQ START to execute those functions. I believe that when it is left in EQ START that an Equalize cycle can be started accidentally while not in EQ menu. At least that is what I saw. Not sure if it can be duplicated or if these are single occurrences. But for me it has happened more that once. And if you don't notice the voltage climb you may not even realize it has happen unless you see the Equalize display is the Status menu.


So good Auto EQ is not controlled by the EQ START that means you could make the default be EQ STOP immediately after an Equalize cycle completes and also after a VMM.

Does this help? My old brain is probably older that yours. 

[boB]

Well, let's see...  My brain is about 60 years old.  Is that older or younger ?

You don't have to press ENTER when going from EQ STOPPED to EQ START.
It just flips a software force flag to the Classic which resets it when it reads it.

I notice also that when an Auto EQ starts, that screen still says EQ STOPPED.

Should probably fix that too.

boB

[Resthome]

Well, let's see...  My brain is about 60 years old.  Is that older or younger ?

You don't have to press ENTER when going from EQ STOPPED to EQ START.
It just flips a software force flag to the Classic which resets it when it reads it.

Younger, I got you beat, this month 68.

Hum... So this function is contrary to most other Classic setting that require the ENTER key to be pressed. Maybe I never waited long enough for it to read the Flag and just though I had to press enter. So if I set it to EQ STOP in the middle of an EQ cycle it will eventually stop the EQ cycle without doing anything else? Wish I had access to my Classic.

So the question of the day is how often is that flag read. If that is the case and it gets left in EQ START wouldn't it try to do another EQ cycle at least the next day when it reads the flag and finds it still in EQ START. Or is there some kind of logic applied once it reaches EQ DONE?

Wondering now if the ARST sets it to EQ STOP or just leaves it wherever it was set last?

I seem to remember it showing EQ START at various times and it was not in an EQ cycle. But I could be way off on that. I just know that at various time I have found it in the EQ START when I wasn't trying to start an EQ cycle and I have had it actually start an EQ cycle when I was not trying to.  Will have to really watch it next time we are there.

[boB]

Happy birthday month !

OK, first...  ARST  ?  Oh, auto- restart.

Yes, when the Classic resets and starts from scratch, except for Auto-Reset (restart), a manual EQ will not
happen, even if the MNGP had been set for EQ STARTED.

The Classic does not actually "READ" the flags in that it does not  ask the MNGP what it should do.
The MNGP, when a flag is set in EQ or in TWEAKS, etc, actually reads the whole flags register,
modifies the flag word and writes it back.  The Classic itself does not have to sit there and read things.
Exception would be Follow-Me where it reads registers from its neighbor.

When the Classic resets or powers on, everything starts from zeros.  Then the first thing the Classic does it
to read the EEprom non-vomitable memory for stored values.  Manual EQ is not one of them since it doesn't
try a second day like Auto-EQ does.

In fact, right after you press the EQ START, the Classic reads this and then resets that force EQ flag.  That's
actually a FORCE EQ bit/flag.  The MNGP keeps the display at EQ start though.  It may need to look to make sure
that the MNGP reads things more often to reflect the state of the Classic but mostly you look at the
main status screen to see if the Classic has started the EQ.  It would say EQ MPPT first and when the
battery voltage gets to the EQ set point, it will say EQUALIZING.  I know you are not at the Classic
but using the Local App but next time you are there, try that and see if that works OK.

boB

[Vic]

Yesterday,  found a Classic 150 charged system had initiated an EQ on its own.  Never do an AutoEQ.

It appears that the EQ may well have started while I was accessing the WBjr Setup>More page --  did the "Enter" function to save data,  and when returning to the main Status page,  noticed that the Classic output current was high,  and "EQ-MPPT" was displayed.   Went to the EQ page in the Charge menu,  and stopped the EQ.

Have only seen a self-initiated EQ on the other Classic 150 charged system here,  and then only once.

Never use the LA,  and always start and monitor the EQ process manually.

Am certain that the EQ process had just started,  as the Vbat was only about 2 volts above Vfloat,  where the CC has been almost all day,  as this was the third,  and last Skip Day before today's full recharge.

Am running 1849 FW,  and may take another run at trying to U/D the FW on the Classics here,  soon.

FWIW,  am glad that I was around to notice the EQ,  and it seems quite possible that some of my MNGP hand-waving must have started the EQ,  BUT,  have not been to the EQ page in the Charge menu for about two weeks.

Thanks,  Vic

[Resthome]

Yesterday,  found a Classic 150 charged system had initiated an EQ on its own.  Never do an AutoEQ.

It appears that the EQ may well have started while I was accessing the WBjr Setup>More page --  did the "Enter" function to save data,  and when returning to the main Status page,  noticed that the Classic output current was high,  and "EQ-MPPT" was displayed.   Went to the EQ page in the Charge menu,  and stopped the EQ.

Have only seen a self-initiated EQ on the other Classic 150 charged system here,  and then only once.

Never use the LA,  and always start and monitor the EQ process manually.

Am certain that the EQ process had just started,  as the Vbat was only about 2 volts above Vfloat,  where the CC has been almost all day,  as this was the third,  and last Skip Day before today's full recharge.

Am running 1849 FW,  and may take another run at trying to U/D the FW on the Classics here,  soon.

FWIW,  am glad that I was around to notice the EQ,  and it seems quite possible that some of my MNGP hand-waving must have started the EQ,  BUT,  have not been to the EQ page in the Charge menu for about two weeks.

Thanks,  Vic

Vic/boB

I've seen the same thing at least 2-3 times over the last year. And yes it always seems to be when I am in one of the menus on the Classic. Never have been able to pin down which one it was but the ENTER key may to be involved. I am definitely not in the Equalize Menu when it happens. And I think it has been in Float also but can't be positive. Wish I had the LA capturing the data when it happened but as luck would have it I did not. Noticed it because the fans usually come on and gets my attention. And like you Vic I haven't updated since 1849 but don't think boB made any changes to the way Equalize is suppose to operate in the manual mode. He was going to do something with the way that Equalize  Start/Stop button was being display/left and it's default position but I don't think that has been done. At least it's not in the change notices. Something is screwy with that flag that gets set to start the Equalize.  boB says that the Enter button is not required to start or stop a manual Equalize.

Always glad to know I am not the only one that experiences these issues. Thanks for the update Vic !

May get a few days at the lake this week that I can update and watch it for a few days. I'm trying to decide if I should make the trip this week as there is a chance of rain mid next week.  I'd like to see if the network disconnect issues have been resolved with the latest firmware. But I have a new laptop that has to get the com driver installed on it first.

[Resthome]

boB

Is it the 4160-4161 register and the ForceEqualizeF  - 0x00000080  bit that starts a new Equalize stage?  You seem to indicate previously that once the flag is set and Equalized is started that that bit gets reset to zero. Or does that bit stay set until the manual Equalize timer expires? 

[boB]

boB

Is it the 4160-4161 register and the ForceEqualizeF  - 0x00000080  bit that starts a new Equalize stage?  You seem to indicate previously that once the flag is set and Equalized is started that that bit gets reset to zero. Or does that bit stay set until the manual Equalize timer expires?

As soon as the flag has been read by the Classic, which should be milliseconds, it will be cleared.
However about the same time, the info flag will show that the EQ stage has been started.

I wish I knew if the start of these EQs happened when someone pressed any buttons in any MNGP menus.
If that was indeed the case, that would be a huge clue !

boB

[Vic]

Hi boB,

Am almost certain that this most-recent self EQ WAS initiated by navigating into the WB Status Menu,  and perhaps the Enter that I performed,  to make certain that the WB Setup data was Saved.

The reason that I believe this is the case,  is that this was done fairly late in the day.  After Saving the setup data,  returned to the Main Status page ...  and noticed,  first,  that the CC output current was higher than it had been a minute or so prior,  AND that the CC Mode was EQ-MPPT.  The battery V was about 2 V above Vfloat,  and the CC output I was about 32 Amps.  This EQ could NOT have been going very long,  as the Vbatt  would have been higher than it was,  if that EQ had been initiated more than a minute or two prior to my returning to the Main Status page,  and noticing that the Classic was EQ-MPPTing.

Nothing absolutely absolute,  but  just circumstantial.   FWIW.  I am glad to see that this may be only initiated by human ditzing with the MNGP.   Much better than the possible case of a self-EQ happening randomly,  IMO.

Thanks,   Vic

[boB]

Wonderful deductions, Watson.. I mean Vic.

That actually is a great clue I think.  Will look at code and ponder this with a possible idea.
At the moment this idea is just a gleam in my mind's eye but hopefully something useful
on this.  Has to do with bits changing when reading-writing-saving, etc.

boB

[Resthome]

boB

I’ll second what Vic is saying about it seems to occur when buttons are being pushed in other menus and in my cases I’m just not sure which menu it was. Could have been the WBjr menus and I am pretty sure it has something to do with the Enter button being press to save settings.

So was interesting in what other flags would be in those same registers that would be reading, writing, or saving bits that somehow could trigger the Equalize flag. The current document on ModBus registers is way before the WBjr was added. Might be a clue as to what other menus may be suspect. 

I think you have the general idea of what is happening, hopefully it will lead to some specific cause and a fix.

As Vic says it doesn’t look like it occurs unless you are at the Classic pushing buttons and that is a good thing.