Back in Business!

[keyturbocars]

Ryan,

I need to be away for the next couple hours or so.  I'll check back when I'm back.  I'll just leave my turbine shut down.  No messages of ground fault or arc fault on the display.  I did remove the GFP jumper yesterday since I am now running with a traditionally grounded system.  However, I did that when I first installed my Classic and it worked normally until just recently.  Not sure if that could have anything to do with it. 

Need to go... will check back later...

Edward

[boB]

Hmmm... Well weird it is !!

But where is the beeping coming from ??  From the Classic or the MNGP Remote ??  If it is the Remote,
then it should say why it is beeping  (Ground or Arc fault) in which case we can do something about
very easily.  If beeping is coming from the Classic, that would be the inductors because they are
most likely to be the closest thing to a speaker in the Classic, besides the speaker in the MNGP.

Will be waiting to see if the software fixes things or not.
boB

[keyturbocars]

OK.  I'm back.  Took longer than I expected.  I homeschool my kids and they were all waiting for me earlier.  In my mind, when I encounter a problem, I just want to follow through until the end.  MY brain goes into troubleshooting mode and it doesn't want to shut down.  I have to constantly fight my "selfish" urge to finish what I am doing or work on my owns things.  Anyway, I needed to force myself to prioritize and give the kids the attention they needed.  Sometimes I have to pretend like I'm a teacher in front of a big classroom... I can't just run out or cancel class just because I have something I want to work on!  

I will now try to revert back to an older version of software.  But in my troubleshooting mindset, I keep thinking "what changed" from BEFORE (when it was working normally) to AFTER (when it stopped charging and started "beeping" at me).  Nothing changed that I had any influence over.  The only thing that might have changed was that we were getting a little more wind.  So, with that in mind, I keep thinking that it shouldn't be the software.  It was working yesterday and earlier this morning.  Then all of a sudden it stopped working.  But, since this is such an easy thing to try (software change), I'll go for it and hope for the best!!  Seems like it might be something that changed (failed) with hardware.  But why?!?!?!  I sure hope I'm wrong.  As far as the beeping, it sure sounds like it's coming from within the Classic but then again my hearing is not the best.  I have ringing (tinnitus) in my ears all the time from not being careful around loud things in the past.  Maybe my Classic is mad  at me for sendig it away and cussing me out (bleep, beep, bleepity, bleep...).  I hope it forgives me and starts behaving again soon!  

After I get a snack, I'll work on updating the software....  winds are calmer now (teens), so I'll be more comfortable releasing the brake and letting the turbine fly.  

I'll report back later what I discover.

Edward

EDIT:  My wife just told me it's about time for dinner, so much for my plans!  I'll have to do the update a little later!  Can't a man get any time to spend with his Classic!?!?!  

[keyturbocars]

OK.  I just reverted back to the 4-18-11 version of the firmware and updated my Classic.  Everything went smoothly with the update (or should I say "downdate", since I'm reverting back).

Winds are only averaging around 11mph now, so it was perfect timing to do some testing.  Same problem.  I released the brake and watched the IN voltage climb up.  When the cut in voltage of 62V was reached the Classic did it's characteristic "click" to turn on.  I saw 0005 watts for a split second and then the Classic started "beeping".  Once again, BULK MPPT displayed and 0000 watts and 0.0A charging.  

boB, I paid attention to the beeping sound and it's definitely coming from inside the Classic.  When I put my ear over the MNGP, it was not the source.  When I put my ear over the upper outlet vent on the Classic, it was definitely coming from inside the Classic.  

I'd guess it is some sort of hardware failure.  If so, then the big question is WHY!?!?  I sure hope I'm wrong!!!  

Edward

[Halfcrazy]

Well it sure sounds hardware related but I am still at a loss on the beeping the inductors usually make a noise I likin to a 56k modem and usually only under power. Can you go to the Main Menu and scroll over to tweaks and then hit the Right Soft key once and disable arc fault and ground fault for the fun of it? Maybe you could try to switch Lo Max as well it may be on now so try it off or the other way around.

[keyturbocars]

You are right Ryan about the beeping sound being similar to an old modem, but in this case it's more of a constant frequency screech/beep instead of the modems' constantly changing frequency sound.

Earlier in the day, when I was experimenting/troubleshooting, I went into TWEAKS and turned OFF the GFP even though I had removed the jumper earlier.  No change.  However, as you suggested, I just went in and also turned off the Arc Fault protection and the LMAX.  I released the turbine brake (winds around 10mph) and now the beeping stopped!  However, apart from the Classic being quiet now, everything else is the same.  Classic turns on at cut in voltage and IN voltage climbs, but there is no power being produced.  Again, BULK MPPT displayed with 0.0A and 0000 watts.  So, turning off the Arc Fault protection and the LMAX did something to stop the beeping.

Hopefully a helpful clue that will lead to a happy ending!

Edward

[Halfcrazy]

Ok I will wait for boB to chime in but it seems we will have to have the Classic revisit Mario.

[keyturbocars]

I guess my Classic likes Mario more than it likes me.  

One more clue, but I couldn't repeat it.  I went into the wind curve editor and loaded a different wind graph.  When I pushed ENTER and then pushed STATUS, I watched as the IN voltage went past the cut in voltage, but this time it showed 0005 watts for a little while and then 0000 watts and the status switched to RESTING even though the voltage was well above the cut in voltage.  

When I braked the turbine and then released it to try to repeat this, it would not do it again.  It would just "click" on and BULK MPPT would display with no charging.  Not sure what was going on with RESTING being displayed even though the IN voltage was well above the cut in point.  But that was just one isolated incident.  All the other times, the Classic clicks on at cut in and displays the BULK status (with no charging occuring).  

Edward

PS.  Another point to mention is that while the Classic is resting (with turbine braked and no power coming in from the turbine), the Classic displays 34.7V or so on the IN voltage.  So this is different than the 0.0V IN I had after it failed last time. 

[Halfcrazy]

It almost sounds like there may be an issue with the current sense circuitry maybe a bad component from the pop before that was stressed? Hopefully we can get mario to be mean to your Classic so it will want to return home for good

[keyturbocars]

It almost sounds like there may be an issue with the current sense circuitry maybe a bad component from the pop before that was stressed? Hopefully we can get mario to be mean to your Classic so it will want to return home for good

YES!  Tell that Mario to stop sweet talking my Classic!!! 

[boB]

PS.  Another point to mention is that while the Classic is resting (with turbine braked and no power coming in from the turbine), the Classic displays 34.7V or so on the IN voltage.  So this is different than the 0.0V IN I had after it failed last time. 

That is normal of course and probably means that your Classic is not "Broken" broken, as in blown broken.

So when it turns on at 62 Volts and you KNOW you are getting some wind behind that turbine and that it
"should" be charging, maybe it actually is !  Except that without the Classic knowing what that output
current (and thus, the power), it can't raise the input voltage because it thinks it is 0 output current.

Try this...   When it does turn on and there is wind, go to STATUS screen two and see if it registers
any INPUT current.  That reading comes from another current sensor so if it IS an output current
sense problem, maybe the input will show something.

Next, take the cover off the Classic and (with its power off), check to make sure that the
top control board is seated and pushed down and connected to the power board underneath
it good.   Maybe it got loose during shipping ??  You know how well them UPS guys can treat
other people's stuff....   Also make sure as best as you can just view it, that there are no pins
that aren't obviously sticking out and not plugged in or something.

If the top board is plugged in good then those white nylon snap in standoffs should be well
in place.  Won't hurt to check this out at least.

From what I am hearing, like the input voltage isn't going to zero and the relay clicks, etc,
it sounds like it might be something real simple.

One more thing as far as the beeping goes...  Since the input voltage is sitting fairly close
to the battery voltage all the time, if the Classic IS actually outputting current to the batteries,
it may be that the "Low Max"  software is coming into play and that might be making it
beep.  To verify this, go into the TWEAKS menu, then to MORE  (or BITS maybe), and set the
LMX  bit too OFF.  If it was the Low Max making the beeping, now it shouldn't
beep anymore.  Maybe it would be beeping before but when you have more and more
output current and the Classic KNOWS it has more output current, it raises the input
voltage and the beeping stops because the Classic won't allow it to stay near
the battery voltage.  Low Max is there mainly for solar anyway so you don't really
need that feature for wind.   The input Voltage MAY go up a volt or two during resting
with LMX set to off so don't worry about that.  In fact, you may see the input voltage
go up slightly if the output current goes up in your case.

Please try this and let us know what happens.

Thanks !!!
boB

[keyturbocars]

Try this...   When it does turn on and there is wind, go to STATUS screen two and see if it registers
any INPUT current.  That reading comes from another current sensor so if it IS an output current
sense problem, maybe the input will show something.

Dumb question... how do I get to the "STATUS screen two"?  This is something that I am not familiar with, so could you tell me how to get to it.

One more thing as far as the beeping goes...  Since the input voltage is sitting fairly close
to the battery voltage all the time, if the Classic IS actually outputting current to the batteries,
it may be that the "Low Max"  software is coming into play and that might be making it
beep.  To verify this, go into the TWEAKS menu, then to MORE  (or BITS maybe), and set the
LMX  bit too OFF.  If it was the Low Max making the beeping, now it shouldn't
beep anymore.  Maybe it would be beeping before but when you have more and more
output current and the Classic KNOWS it has more output current, it raises the input
voltage and the beeping stops because the Classic won't allow it to stay near
the battery voltage.  Low Max is there mainly for solar anyway so you don't really
need that feature for wind.   The input Voltage MAY go up a volt or two during resting
with LMX set to off so don't worry about that.  In fact, you may see the input voltage
go up slightly if the output current goes up in your case.

You are exactly right on this one.  When I turned off the LMX, the beeping did stop.  I'll check the other things you mentioned too.  Right now we are "babysitting" 4 young boys (on top of my own 7 kids) and I am hanging around upstairs to make sure that they don't tear the house down!    Let me know how to access STATUS screen two and I'll check that out too.  Great idea on checking to make sure that the board is seated and everything is solidly connected.  Thanks for the ideas.

Edward

[boB]

Well, to get to the other status screens, hit the STATUS button to cycle through the screens.  Some older versions, and maybe
the one in your unit now, cycle through when you hit the right arrow from the main status screen.

ya better watch those kids though !!

boB

[keyturbocars]

Well, to get to the other status screens, hit the STATUS button to cycle through the screens.  Some older versions, and maybe
the one in your unit now, cycle through when you hit the right arrow from the main status screen.

ya better watch those kids though !!

boB

Thanks for info, boB.  Yes, I better keep an eye out.  If they got near my Classic, then it would REALLY be dead!  Very active (wild)!  My kids can get excited and wild at times, but nothing like this.  My kids know better than to be destructive.  Also... sitting still? What's that!?!?!? We watched a movie (or tried to) and they were running around doing stuff the whole time.  Very relaxing... NOT!    Glad that my kids know better and behave differently.

Edward

[boB]

I'm sure your kids are just little angels...

SO, one more thing I thought of to look at while the Classic is resting.

In main STATUS, hold down the LEFT ARROW key and then tap the ENTER key and release.
There will be some numbers there.  Ignore the one on the very top middle, the lower left
and the lower right numbers.

So, you will be left with 4 numbers under the IN and OUT column headings.  What are those
4 numbers ??  They should normally sitting somewhere around 40 to 45... Maybe say, 35 to 50
max, in that range.

Back to your regularly scheduled fracus.

boB