The "LCD screen" of the Kid gone wild

[psp300639]

I finally received the marine version of the kid after more than three weeks of waiting mode and finally did commission it into service. All the users 12 volts system setpoints were program into the kid, it is currently connected to 400 watts PV system with 140 amp/hr deep cycle flooded lead acid batteries. I tried to use the manual equalization features of the kid with voltage and timer  setpoints of 15.5v and 120 minutes respectively. The kid power up for few second and I could hear clicking noise inside the kid after which the "LCD SCREEN" would displayed what appears to be black shaded boxes.(photo attached) I tried to switch off the PV breaker and the Battery breaker. Wait few seconds and power up the kid again the result same situation. Any one have the same experience with kid marine version? Take note of the green LED light its powered to on position to "RFC".

[ClassicCrazy]

I wonder what version of the firmware was in there when you started out ?  Did you try to see if it shows up if you plug in the programming cable ?  I wonder if there is a way to force it into firmware update mode so you could try reloading the newest firmware.

Removing all the power via battery and PV should clear it you would think, but maybe you need to give it longer in case there are any backup capacitors to discharge . I don't remember if the Kid has a battery backup in it ?  If it was me I would pull those fuses on the kid just to be sure all power sources were disconnected , then let it sit for awhile, and power it up again with only the battery first.

Otherwise call Midnite and ask them , might be a replacement problem. 
Larry 

[psp300639]

Thanks Larry for the reply, The kid powered normally and shows the firmware version of 1742, before I ordered the unit I asked the authorized distributor NAWS to update for me to the latest software/firmware version of the kid. So they did upon my request. Could be hardware problem?

[TomW]

The Kid probably needs to sit awhile after being powered down and disconnected from the input source.

Since it is inoperable anyway I would power it down and let it sit overnight or something then fire it up and see what it does. Can't hurt.

The Kid update is done by dragging and dropping a file onto a folder that is created when you plug the update cable into your computer and power up The Kid. Very easy.

Some older units needed a bit more to update but I can't remember the details of that.

Good Luck with it.

Tom

[psp300639]

Hi Tom thanks for the concern. The reason I asked NAWS to have it updated its firmware because of the possibility sourcing the usb cable which might cause me a problem. Anyway hopefully it's not hardware issues with the kid. Actually this unit is my third solar charge controller, the others were Bogart Engineering TM2030RV used in tandem with SC2030 and solarmate. Maybe I'll get in touch with NAWS regarding my issues and concern with the kid. Thanks guys

[ClassicCrazy]

There is a newer version of the firmware - maybe a beta version but have not heard anyone say anything was wrong with it.
Doesn't the USB cable come with the Kid ?  I believe it is just like a lot of the usb to mini or micro like you see on many phones. Not near my Kid now so I cannot confirm that.

Anyway as Tom said, when you plug in the Kid in firmware update  mode , it shows up as another device  on computer and you just drag the new firmware file in it and let it do it's thing.

Here is info on newest firmware http://midnitesolar.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2124.0

[Vic]

Hi psp..,

The KID MUST have separate battery negative and PV negative cables --  they are connected inside the KID.  The KID measures output current in the negative leads.

Sometimes,  if the KID replaces another CC,  the negative PV and battery leads are connected together at a system busbar.  This does not allow the KID to know the output current being delivered to the battery.

Please check and confirm that there is NO outside connection between the PV and battery  negative cables.

And,  it would be a good idea to confirm the battery cable connections at the KID,  and with the rest of the system.

Is the battery that the KID is connected to reasonably well-charged?

The RFC LED would normally indicate that the battery has Received Full Charge,  which  might indicate something to the MN Tech folks,  but not to me.

FWIW,  Vic

[psp300639]

There is a newer version of the firmware - maybe a beta version but have not heard anyone say anything was wrong with it.
Doesn't the USB cable come with the Kid ?  I believe it is just like a lot of the usb to mini or micro like you see on many phones. Not near my Kid now so I cannot confirm that.

Anyway as Tom said, when you plug in the Kid in firmware update  mode , it shows up as another device  on computer and you just drag the new firmware file in it and let it do it's thing.

Here is info on newest firmware http://midnitesolar.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2124.0

Hi CC

This is not a Beta unit of the kid, likewise the kid doesn't comes standard with the usb cable. Yes the possibility of usb phone cables can be utilize, Besides I don't want to void its warranty just in case. I email NAWS regarding the issue still waiting for their reply. 

[psp300639]

Hi psp..,

The KID MUST have separate battery negative and PV negative cables --  they are connected inside the KID.  The KID measures output current in the negative leads.

Sometimes,  if the KID replaces another CC,  the negative PV and battery leads are connected together at a system busbar.  This does not allow the KID to know the output current being delivered to the battery.

Please check and confirm that there is NO outside connection between the PV and battery  negative cables.

And,  it would be a good idea to confirm the battery cable connections at the KID,  and with the rest of the system.

Is the battery that the KID is connected to reasonably well-charged?

The RFC LED would normally indicate that the battery has Received Full Charge,  which  might indicate something to the MN Tech folks,  but not to me.

FWIW,  Vic

Hi Vic

I double check all connection wires coming into and out of the kid including the  PV side to Battery side respectively all is well secured and properly connected. Anyway as a general rule, battery has to be fully charge first  to begin the equalization cycle. All load were also disconnected with battery because of the high voltage during equalization process.anyway I'm still waiting for NAWS reply what do next. I'll keep posted for updates.

[Vic]

Hi psp..,

The KID MUST have separate battery negative and PV negative cables --  they are connected inside the KID.  The KID measures output current in the negative leads.

Sometimes,  if the KID replaces another CC,  the negative PV and battery leads are connected together at a system busbar.  This does not allow the KID to know the output current being delivered to the battery.

Please check and confirm that there is NO outside connection between the PV and battery  negative cables.

And,  it would be a good idea to confirm the battery cable connections at the KID,  and with the rest of the system.

Is the battery that the KID is connected to reasonably well-charged?

The RFC LED would normally indicate that the battery has Received Full Charge,  which  might indicate something to the MN Tech folks,  but not to me.

FWIW,  Vic

Hi Vic

I double check all connection wires coming into and out of the kid including the  PV side to Battery side respectively all is well secured and properly connected. Anyway as a general rule, battery has to be fully charge first  to begin the equalization cycle. All load were also disconnected with battery because of the high voltage during equalization process.anyway I'm still waiting for NAWS reply what do next. I'll keep posted for updates.

OK,  thanks for the reply ...

OK,  so the KID worked fine when doing the normal charge cycle,  and only had this unusual behavior when you initiated the EQ ??  Has the KID behaved normally prior to you trying to do the EQ??

And,  just to make sure,  the PV negative wire from the PV modules connect directly and ONLY to the PV Negative terminal inside the KID,  and NOWHERE ELSE?  And the battery negative wire connects directly to the KID,  and there is NO connection between the battery negative wire and PV negative EXCEPT inside the KID ??

Sorry to be so tedious,  but  the separation of the PV and battery negative cables,   and having the only connection between these two cables INSIDE the KID is important for its proper operation.   Thanks,    Vic

[psp300639]

Hi Vic

The kid work as expected during the normal cycle got the shunt and whizbang jr connected and working properly as well. It's only during the equalization cycles will the LCD screen behaves unusual. All loads were disconnected and the only wires connected to the kid were the PV and Battery nothing else. What causes the LCD screen to behave abnormal. Any thoughts?

[Vic]

Hi psp..,

Thanks for the added info.

So you are using the Battery Temperature Sensor attached to one  battery?

I really have no other ideas.  Have used a Manual EQ, on a KID,  with the compensated EQ voltage over 17 V,  and the KID had no problem with it.

Wonder is you reduced the EQ voltage to about 15.0 V,  if that might make any difference.

Dunno,  will let others comment,   Good Luck,   Vic

[psp300639]

Hi Vic,

I also tried that procedure of installing the BTS no improvement whatsoever, likewise also went disconnected,  maybe reducing the voltage will not be within the battery manufacturer recommendation. I m trying to salvage the situation hopefully, I'll try the recommendation to remove everything likes wires,  loads etc and let the kid rest for while. I'll keep posted for updates. 

[Vic]

Hi Vic,    ...   maybe reducing the voltage will not be within the battery manufacturer recommendation. I m trying to salvage the situation hopefully, I'll try the recommendation to remove everything likes wires,  loads etc and let the kid rest for while. I'll keep posted for updates.

psp...,

There is no question,  that reducing the EQ voltage,  as I had suggested,  would most probably not meet the EQ spec of the battery manufacturer,  but neither would doing the EQ within the speced range,  if the KID  will not perform that EQ,  of course ...  just trying to get at one corner of the performance envelope.

Also wonder about setting the Current Limit in the KID to  something like 7 A.   Technically,  one might really want to limit the EQ Max current to about 5% of 20 Hr Capacity,  or approximately 7 A,  if your 140 AH rating is the 20 hour rating.

When EQing the Flooded banks here,  manually limit the EQ current to 5% of C,  maximum.

FWIW,  Vic

[psp300639]

Hello Vic,

I have similar set up for 12 volts off grid system but this unit is the Bogart Engineering model TM2030RV used in tandem with the SC2030 30 amps max solar charge controller with same set up system of 400 watts PV with 140 amp/hr flooded lead acid battery. It has a shunt connection same manner as the kid, same principle were applied to the kid went connected to the whizbang jr. I did program the setpoints for the Equalization cycles to 15.7 volts and 3% current limit respectively and as specified in the Bogart instructional manual with no issues and concern. Very satisfied the results of the Bogart unit. Relative thereto I did the same with the kid but at a lower voltage of 15.5 volts with current limit to 4.2 amps or 3% equivalent of battery capacity. Remember these are separate system only difference is the solar charge controller one having the characteristics of "PWM" and the other "MPPT", both units have maximum charging capacity of 30 amps. The programing setpoints for the TM2030RV and the SC2030 is quite complicated but I was able to commission it with no issues and concern. Yes battery has the C/20 ratings. thanks for sharing the knowledge and experience. "High on LED and SOLAR", Cheers.