Using Whizbang Jr and MNSHUNT with KID controller?

[nlt999]

Hi!

What is the advantage(s) of using the Shunt and WhizbangJr with the KID controller?  It's a fairly expensive option, so just wondering what it would do for us........

Thanks for your help!  Nick

[Doug]

Hi nlt999,

With the shunt and whizzBang Jr. you get its current readings on the display but more importantly you can use the end amps setting to terminate the absorb cycle when your batteries are full rather than when a timer runs out.

HTH,
Doug

[nlt999]

Thanks for the reply Doug!

How important is using the 'end amps' function?  How much of an advantage, especially compared to the cost?  For instance, does it really extend battery life to any significant degree, or offer any other significant improvement?

Nick

[Vic]

Hi Nick,

I am not Doug...   but,  to me,  Shunt End Amps (EA)  is very useful,  especially if the Depth Of Discharge (DOD)  of the battery varies a reasonable amount from day-to-day (where a fixed time for Absorb does a fairly poor job of recharging one's batteries).

Have only ever used EA for ending Absorb for the batteries in use here,  and in the olden days,  before the advent of the WBjr,  always had to use "CC EA"  (without a Shunt).  CC EA worked OK,  but other loads on the CC could cause problems in a household of out-of-control power users.

With the introduction of the very INEXPENSIVE WBjr,  things have gotten much better.

Compared to ANY other battery current tracking device,  the WBjr plus a Shunt,  if there is not already one in your system,  is a minimum of $125  LESS EXPENSIVE than ANY other device that I have seen.

If one needs to buy the Shunt,  the WB seems a bit more expensive,  but many e-panels and other DC conduit boxes form other companies than MidNite already have the Shunt installed.

Shunt EA that the WB provides is much better than guessing the correct Absorb time.  And if one generally sets Absorb time too high for the general DOD of the battery,  it is not that good for the battery -- plate erosion,  water consumption,  etc,  and guessing too short an Absorb is much worse for battery life,  as this can lead to hard Sulphation  which damages batteries.

The WBjr is an expensive single Shunt battery monitor,  that tracks AH removed and put into a battery.   This is a very helpful piece of information,   IMO.

FWIW,   Vic

[Doug]

Nick,

Others can relate their experience but I've noticed with my AGMs (440AH 12V) that the absorb time can be as little as 1-1/2 hours if they were lightly used to about 6 hours if they were more deeply discharged. What type of battery?
I would look at the battery manufacturer's recommended absorb time/charge rate. Mine are LifeLine batteries and by their numbers I drop out of absorb at about 2.5 amps.

Doug

[nlt999]

Thanks to both Doug and Vic (again) for the info!

I am upgrading a system for my brother and hate to keep adding to his cost, thus the inquiry.  Thanks to your info, I can discuss this option with him with at least a little confidence.  His battery bank is four 6v 370Ah Deka flooded batteries in series.  It's a 24v system with KID controller and two Chaori 24v 280W panels in series, so a small system compared to many.  Sounds like it's worth the extra $$ for the extra peace of mind that the batteries will be well-treated.

Thanks again for your input..... greatly appreciated!

Nick

[ClassicCrazy]

You won't be sorry to get a Whizbang and shunt if needed. It is the only way you can tell what is really going into  your battery when charging and running loads. For example - if you have 5 amp load on while the solar panels are charging 10 amps then the system amps will show 5 amps. Without the Whizbang you would only know that the Kid is providing 10 amps  from the panels. 

Also without the Whizbang you would not be able to see SOC - state of charge for the battery. So if you had 100 amp capacity battery and during the night used 20 amps worth of power in the morning it would show you 80% SOC and then count up  as it charges to get to 100% full.  This is simplified example because you enter other details like battery temperature compensation, battery efficiency , etc that makes it more accurate and compensates.

If you are going to have your batteries where they will get very cold or hot you will also want to get the remote battery  temperature compensation sensor cable .

Also keep in mind that if you ever upgrade to larger system you can always use that shunt for that - and the Whizbang also works with the Classic charge controller .

Larry

[Vic]

And,  Nick,

In addition to the Battery Temp Sensor (BTS)  that Larry mentioned,  be certain that you or your brother gets a good Hydrometer (or two or even three).  A glass Hydrometer from the Auto Parts store  could be fine.

Try to find one with actual numbers for the SG readings,  and not a plastic one,  or one that has only colors or floating balls to indicate the SG.

The Hydrometer will help with calibration of the WBjr's SOC indication.

It is a good idea to number each battery,  and letter each cell of each battery (ie, for  battery 1 --  1A,  1B,  1C,  etc)  with a felt-tipped pen,  to help keep track of which cells have what SG readings.

It is a good idea to make a battery Log Book,  and enter SG data,  Distilled Water consumption,  and when water was added,  the dates and length of EQs,  etc.

Here is a Link to the Surrette Battery summary of the details of measuring SGs of Flooded batteries (it makes little difference who made the battery):
http://support.rollsbattery.com/support/solutions/folders/10485

You will want to find out the target SG reading that corresponds to 100% State Of Charge (SOC).  This should come from Deka,  or the batter dealer.

This will help plot the course of the battery health,  IMO.

FWIW,   Have Fun with the new system.   Vic

[Westbranch]

just to add to the above, for example, seeing as it is a 24V system , probably might run a fridge, if you have an EA set for 7A (10% of  C-20 capacity) and the fridge kicks in and draws 10A or 15A DC for 30 minutes, , in that period your batteries might be bleeding power rather than taking it in..  the WBjr is a god send...

[nlt999]

You guys are GREAT!  I've copied all your posts to a WORD doc that I will use to go over all of this with my brother so he can decide what he wants me to do.  (This installation just keeps getting more and more complicated, but hopefully we will wind up with a solid, dependable, and safe system when all is said and done!

Thanks for all your help!  Nick

[boomadge]

And,  Nick,

In addition to the Battery Temp Sensor (BTS)  that Larry mentioned,  be certain that you or your brother gets a good Hydrometer (or two or even three).  A glass Hydrometer from the Auto Parts store  could be fine.

Try to find one with actual numbers for the SG readings,  and not a plastic one,  or one that has only colors or floating balls to indicate the SG.

The Hydrometer will help with calibration of the WBjr's SOC indication.

It is a good idea to number each battery,  and letter each cell of each battery (ie, for  battery 1 --  1A,  1B,  1C,  etc)  with a felt-tipped pen,  to help keep track of which cells have what SG readings.

It is a good idea to make a battery Log Book,  and enter SG data,  Distilled Water consumption,  and when water was added,  the dates and length of EQs,  etc.

Here is a Link to the Surrette Battery summary of the details of measuring SGs of Flooded batteries (it makes little difference who made the battery):
http://support.rollsbattery.com/support/solutions/folders/10485

You will want to find out the target SG reading that corresponds to 100% State Of Charge (SOC).  This should come from Deka,  or the batter dealer.

This will help plot the course of the battery health,  IMO.

FWIW,   Have Fun with the new system.   Vic

A Hydrometer is a must for flooded batteries, and I agree with vic on the  "not a plastic one" but there is one on the market called Hydrovolt that I purchased and have compared with my glass hydro's and its remarkably on par with glass readings. It has temp compensation built in and honestly the easiest hydro on the market IMO.

[Vic]

Hi boomadge,

YES,  and I almost made a reference to the Hydrovolt Hydrometer (distributed by MidNite Solar),  but did not take the time.

However,  Nick mentioned the budget several times,  and a good Auto Parts store Hydro is usually about $10 - 12 out the door,  and the Great Hydrovolt (have several of them here),  is about $30.  plus shipping:
http://www.solar-electric.com/batteries-meters-accessories/batteries/baacma/midnite-solar-battery-hydrometer.html

On tallish batteries,  the  fill tube is too short to get to the electrolyte,  and is a bit harder to clean than is the simple glass float/glass tube hydro,  IMO.

But,  the Hydrovolt is very easy to read,  and seems as accurate as my favorite Glass Hydro.

BTW,  would suggest that folks think twice before buying the Brady glass Hydro --  keep taking readings,  and there is a huge variation,  so just keep taking readings until you get one that you like,  with any of the current generation Brady Hydrometers that I have used (three different ones).

FWIW,   Thanks,    Vic