Suggestions? Classic 200 not making power...

[alyaz]

Correct.

They have:
one battery bank - 24 v - approx 1500 a/hr - 12 6v agm batteries - 3 strings of 4
two arrays, both 1000 watts
one array in two strings to a Midnite 200
one array in two strings to an older Outback 60

Thanks guys... heading out shortly. 

[alyaz]

Well not sure I can add too much to the 'knowledge' here, but will add a few details to the questions asked below (inserted along side the questions asked).  As already mentioned, the Classic 200 was working like magic for the past year.  About two weeks ago I noticed no wattage/amps on the display.  It cycled back and forth (maybe every 30 seconds) between resting and bulk mppt - similar to what they do on a cloudy/rainy day when the controller can't get enough voltage to make power. 

I did get the latest firmware updates into the Classic (both the charger and display updates).  However, it did not make any difference.

I did about three reboots, as per you guys' directions.  I also confirmed the mode 'solar' was on and entered.  I also tried the mode 'legacy' and the scan was quicker, but still no power was made.

I forgot to take the instructions from the link on how to access the RFR codes. 

Although I have two Midnite Classics, my skill level is pretty basic.  I can get around the menus etc, but that's about it. 

I did call the electrician who installed the Midnite controller and he checked the breakers, wiring etc.  As already mentioned, he confirmed the Midnite's array works with the Outback.  The Outback's array hooked to the Classic also makes no power. 
Conclusion = Midnite 200: %#$@!&*%

Regards, Al.  :-)

Hi alyaz,

OK,  when you Reboot (or set to Factory Defaults),  the Charge voltage defaults to a fairly low value.  This is really too low for Flooded batteries;

What type of batteries does this system have?
AGM's - 1500 a/hr - 24v

You will need to check the Limits in the Charge menu to make sure that these limits are wide enough to correctly Temperature Compensate for the type of batteries that this system is using.

The parameters for the batteries are set as per the manufacturer; abs=29.4v, float=27.2v, eq=nil

In addition to telling us the type of batteries on this system,

What is the Absorb voltage setting?
What is the EA setting in the Charge>Advanced menu?
end amps seems to default to 0, although i set it to 3a and it did nothing different.
What it the Input voltage to the Classic with good sun on the PVs?
when i was there today it was anywhere between 69v to 81v - not the sunniest of days here.
What is the Absorb time setting?
set for 3.5 hours.
What is the RFR on the Classic?
forgot to print out the link so i didn't know how to retrieve it... duh!
What is the power production from the Classic,  on the lower left of the Main Status screen?
0 kWh for the past two weeks.

This system does not really need a WBjr set up to end Absorb,  at this point,  so no need to set all of those parameters.

BUT,  please try turning OFF the PV in to the OB CC,  and see what the Classic does with good sun on its PV array.
no change.

If this system is using Flooded batteries,  it is quite possible that the OB has higher Absorb voltage settings that does the Classic.  This could make the Classic Rest during the Absorb stage.  Please DO check the RFR on the Classic if it is resting.

Thanks for answering the questions that have been asked,  this should be helpful.

Good Luck,   Vic

[CDN-VT]

alyaz
Im in the same school & class .
Many here all have knowledge of different levels.
Were in a good class.
If the Classic that is RMA for diagnosing & repaired , it would be GREAT that this thread was updated for the Failure .
Like alyaz posted , only one SPD & it's on the AC side ( ¿ ) and he heard thunder .


Im not saying that the Classic has been damaged , wait for VIC & then call Midnite is what I need to do next week on my damaged KID


VT

[Vic]

Hi alyaz,

Thanks for checking on things there,  and the report.

OK,  so you did try turning the OB CC's PV in breaker to OFF,  and the Classic did nothing different,  therefore your comment,  "no change".

But,  the comment that this was NOT the sunniest of days, is a bit difficult to decode.
At the time that you switched the OB CC PV in breaker to OFF,  was the Classic's PV array in good sun,  and were there distinct shadows cast on the ground from things like your body,  and was it between about 10 AM and 2 PM,  local time??  If distinct shadows cannot be cast from blocking the sun during about midday,  solar production can be easily be reduced by about 90%,  or more.

It is easy to sense your frustration,   sorry to drill you with so many questions.

The RFR number could help quite a lot in diagnosing just why the Classic is Resting.

As you may know,  almost ANY shading at all  can dramatically reduce PV output,  and this could possibly explain why the Classic might not be producing meaningful power,  so carefully looking for any shadows at all on the Classic's PV array could help,  also.

Still a bit confusing that you DO see the Classic in Bulk,  yet there is absolutely 0 power produced in the past two weeks ... For the Classic to be in Bulk it needs to be producing about 15-ish watts of power.

Also,  this system has the Battery Temperature Sensor (BTS) installed?  How warm or cold do you think that the batteries might be?  As I mentioned,  checking the Limits Menu to see just what are those settings.  The Defaults (which are set when the VMM  -- Restore Factory Defaults if done  -- Limits the highest Absorb voltage to something like the Veq setting,  IIRC,  and if the batteries are cold,  this could,  possibly be an issue.


So,  perhaps contact MidNite Tech via e-mail or phone.  Having the RFR might help them.

We do sense your frustration,  and we all have been there with our systems,  and it is kind of you to look in on your neighbor's system.

Sorry,  cannot offer much more.   Good Luck,  and please to check back to let us know what you have found,  and any reports of what might have been the issue with the Classic.

Thanks !   Good Luck,    Vic

[alyaz]

Thanks Vic.

The day today was pretty mixed weather.  But when the array was showing about 80v, there was high overcast light haze with obvious sun (no shading) on the array.  Even when the sun disappeared behind heavier cloud, the Outback CC was producing 150-200 watts.  The Midnite, nothing, zero, nada.

Interesting comment you made about the Midnite’s brief bulking status and how typically something for power is being received. 

I will get over there again hopefully tomorrow and pull the RFR code.

Yes the Midnite battery sensor is installed.  The batteries are housed in an insulated shed, and the temperature has been pretty steady at around 50 degrees F lately.

Probably a bit frustrated also because I encouraged them to not buy another Outback controller when they put in the second array.  I appreciate things go wrong but I do feel a bit of responsibility for the Midnite controller not working all of a sudden.  Oh well, we will get it figured out.  :-)

Will keep you posted.

Regards, Al

[Vic]

Hi Al,

Thanks for the reply.  Am sure that the situation will be figured out fairly soon.

Good Luck,  and yes,  please do let us know what is discovered  --  we are all learning about this stuff.   Vic

[alyaz]

okay pulled the RFR code: 5 ‘too low power and Vbatt below set point for 90 seconds.’

does that mean anything to you guys?  again, the confusing part for me is that the classics array hooked to the outback makes power on the outback.  the outbacks array hooked to the classic does not make any power on the classic either.  factory reset done numerous times and shouldn’t the default parameters at least get the classic up and operating, maybe not optimally but at least functioning (if there isn’t something wrong with the classic?).

[Vic]

Hi Al,

Thanks for the RFR number.

Well,  there may well be something wrong with that Classic.

There could be something wrong with the circuit breaker on the output of the Classic,   or some poor connection in the cable from the Classic to its output breaker,  or from the breaker to the battery + buss.

If you would feel comfortable doing so,  could you remove the front cover on the Classic,  and very carefully measure the input voltage on the PV input terminals to the Classic??  With the fairly high PV input voltages that this Classic uses,  you would need to be very careful in doing this.

To me,  if there is nothing wrong with this Classic,  then a poor connection in PV input,  or in the output of the Classic's connection to the battery  would be likely cause.

It sounds like some or all of this system was installed by an Electrician.   But,  generally using the correct torque on all screw terminal connections is of critical importance when these connections are first installed,  and then to re-torque them again in about 24 hours,  as copper conductors cold flow in time.   So if you are comfortable doing so,  you could try to re-torque the PV in connections on the input breaker,  the Classic PV and battery terminals,  as well as all of the output connections from the Classic to the breaker and battery,  as well.

...  I should add,  that you can sometimes see the effects of poor connections at circuit breakers,  and possibly the input/output connections in the Classic,  by some discoloration on the terminal screws,  and in extreme cases,  even discoloration/blackening on cable insulation,  at the connection point to breakers and busbars.  You might want to look for this,  as an indication of where a poor connection might be ...

More Later.   Thanks,    Vic

[Westbranch]

In addition to retorquing , use an IR thermometer to look for hot connections or look for signs of overheating at all connections including inside the distribution box or E-panel....

example attached...

[alyaz]

Yikes. 

Well thanks to all.  I’m leaving/left the ‘hot wire’ investigation to the electrician, in part because I don’t want to take any chances blowing up someone else’s stuff  :-)

I now have an RMA number and will try to remember to update the thread when it is returned.  It will be a long process though because we live on a small island.  Getting an electrician here to remove and reinstall will likely take longer than getting the unit through the Canada / USA border.

Stay tuned...

[Westbranch]

Make sure you talk to Ryan about the wording on the paperwork that accompanies the unit when it is returned.... It is very specific and must be used  OR you will have to pay a fee that will be charged when it comes  over the border....  This happened to me a few weeks ago....

[CDN-VT]

That picture the WB posted  =WOW .
What Island Al ?
lasqueti

I will be taking my damaged KID dow in 3 weeks .


VT

[Vic]

Yikes. 

Well thanks to all.  I’m leaving/left the ‘hot wire’ investigation to the electrician, in part because I don’t want to take any chances blowing up someone else’s stuff  :-)

I now have an RMA number and will try to remember to update the thread when it is returned.  It will be a long process though because we live on a small island.  Getting an electrician here to remove and reinstall will likely take longer than getting the unit through the Canada / USA border.
Stay tuned...

OK Al,

Thanks for the update.

It is great that you folks are on an island,  but too bad that this makes Professional help scarce.

Good that you have an RMA for the Classic.   MidNite DOES have great Customer Service and Tech Support.

Please DO update us on what was the issue with the Classic,  as we all are learning as we go along.

Also,  bet that you will be strongly encouraging your neighbors to al least add MNSPDs to the PV input from each PV array,  and probably grounding the PVs and frames to a good ground system,  regardless of what was the ultimate cause of the problem.

Good Luck,   Vic

[alyaz]

Make sure you talk to Ryan about the wording on the paperwork that accompanies the unit when it is returned.... It is very specific and must be used  OR you will have to pay a fee that will be charged when it comes  over the border....  This happened to me a few weeks ago....

Thanks for the heads up.  Did they nail you with a brokerage fee?

Regards Al

[alyaz]

"Also,  bet that you will be strongly encouraging your neighbors to al least add MNSPDs to the PV input from each PV array,  and probably grounding the PVs and frames to a good ground system,  regardless of what was the ultimate cause of the problem.

Good Luck,   Vic”


haha, i already have.  :-)  thanks for all your help!