relay clicking

[ClassicCrazy]

Thanks for the tips, Vic.  When I first got the forklift batteries installed, I called the manufacturer and asked for EA value.  They said they had never been asked that before! Say, what?  They told me to set it at 28.7.  Anyway, I had remembered from the Northern Arizona forum, the rule of thumb was for 1-2% of aH capacity but since this was the manufacturer suggestion, I went with their number.  It worked for a while...which makes sense...but then, the aH and SG were off.  I had to do some "jockeying" to get things back to where the batteries were fully charged again during the day.  By jockeying, I mean to change the absorb time and the EA...EA set low and Abs time high.  After leveling out the battery, I set the EA at 9.3 (1% of aH capacity) and absorb time at 1:30.  That, too, was working until the relay clicking began.  We know the rest of the story from the postings above.  I may need to re-visit the EA value and lower it a bit more.  I think I can get it.

So, things are returning to "normal," whatever that means in this variable world of solar!  I'm remembering that during the summer with the high temps, I have to watch the batteries to make certain that they don't get overcooked, so to speak.  My loads are not extremely high...freezer and refrig only.  During the cold, I notice that it is a little harder to get the charging completed without making adjustments.

Thanks again.  I'll keep working at it.  I think that I will cover two of the panels one of these days and take measurements with the clamp meter.  I do believe they are all working properly but it would be smart to confirm rather than assume.

If you set the Absorb time too short , you are defeating the Ending amps setting because it will time out Absorb cycle  before it gets the batteries full and go to float.
Set the Ending Amps and set the Absorb time for a very long value  ( 4 hours ? ) while you watch it for a few days. Also keep an eye on the SOC . You want it so that when it gets 100% SOC the ending amps is getting close to cut it off. Check the specific gravity to make sure that at 100% full on SOC they really are.

It makes it a lot easier to watch what is going on by looking at the MyMidnite graphs of system amps , battery voltage,  SOC, and charging state . You will see the system amps start to level off and that is where ending amps point is.

Larry

[ClassicCrazy]

Vic, I didn't address a couple of the other things you mentioned. 

Yes, the clamp meter does zero out but it doesn't hold zero for very long.  I'm figuring that's normal so I just keep zeroing until I see the 0.00 and then take a reading and push "hold."  Because the batteries are receiving some charging and the load is taking some of the current, I don't think I will ever get an accurate reading of the state of the state.  That's why I am going to test each of the 4 panel series sets.

And, yes, I am going to lower the EA to 5.0 amps today to see how things go.  The battery charge at sundown yesterday was 25.2.  At 2.3V per cell required, it should read 27.6.  I'm not allowing enough current to flow before it goes to float.  The change should correct things...I hope.

When the sun is out and the batteries are charging check the current with your meter - it doesn't matter if it fluctuates a bit - just watch the real time amps without putting it on hold. What you want to look for is that each string is about the same current - they should all be close if they are the same panels in the same light conditions.
Larry

[Resthome]

When I clamp the wiring between the shunt and the battery, it reads about half the amount showing on the classic.  The negative wire coming out of the combiner box registers about half the amps showing on the classic screen also.

Is there any way to help clear my confusion with this?

This shouldn't be. Assume this is the Classic screen you are looking at:

Pressing the STATUS button three times will bring you to the Whizbang Jr.
status screen.  There are 4 displayed items here.

This status screen updates live. It displays: Whizbang Jr. temperature,
instantaneous battery current, remaining temperature compensated Amp-hours and
SOC% (if SOC is flashing then the battery has not seen a full charge by going
to float for the first time after turning unit on) Pressing the upper Left
button (Left Soft Key) gets us to the accumulated Amp Hours screen.

This is the Amps that should match you clamp on amp meter at the battery cable. To be sure there is only ONE cable from the battery negative to the Shunt. All other cables should be on the other side of the shunt. Put you clamp on amp meter on the single cable to battery negative.

Also make sure the WBjr setup is set to SHUNT.  To enable Whizbang Jr. assisted charging, select “CHARGE” from the main menu. Select “ADVANCED.” Press the soft-left key until the annunciator above it reads “SHUNT” (selecting “CLASC” uses the Classic’s internal shunt instead). Press
Enter to save your choice.

Also make sure the WBjr Temp Comp is set to 25 degrees C.  On the second WBjr setup screen you need to set the battery temperature we reference to for temperature compensation for capacity change and voltage adjustment. As a battery changes in temperature, its apparent capacity changes
and the voltage we charge it to needs to change. If the battery temperature is above the “Reference Point” (Hot) we gain capacity and lower the charge voltage. If the battery temperature is below the reference point (Cold) we lose capacity and raise the charge voltage. Most standard batteries use 25 Degrees Celsius as their “Reference Point”. If your battery uses something other than
25C for a reference value, this is where you would set it.

If your meter is still only reading 1/2 of what is on the WBjr status screen try flipping the clamp on in the other direction, shouldn't matter but you never know.

[elesaver]

Yes, the WBJr is set to shunt and I access the third screen all the time.  The temp. compensation was set at 24.8 so I changed that to 25.0 degrees.  So, those things should be good.

Thanks for the connection of the WBJr telling me how many amps are going into the battery!  Duh.     When I put the clamp meter on the neg cable, I was in range although it was changing constantly.  Close enough for government work. 

Everything seemed to work well today.  I check the SG and all cells are at 1.285.  I'd like to get the battery voltage up to 2.76V from 2.64V.   Before I change anything else though, I'm going to let this go for a couple of days and watch the numbers.

Meanwhile, if I had a hat on, I'd take it off to all of you for your willingness to tutor.  The pay for your work isn't the best (according to some) but in the times I've had a hand in helping someone with something, just knowing they appreciated it was pay enough.  So...I appreciate all of you. 

[Vic]

   ...   Everything seemed to work well today.  I check the SG and all cells are at 1.285.  I'd like to get the battery voltage up to 2.76V from 2.64V.   Before I change anything else though, I'm going to let this go for a couple of days and watch the numbers   ...

Hi elesaver,

Thanks for the update,  sounding better.

My guess is that 1.285 SG is your probable target.  What does the battery manufacturer say is the SG target that you are looking for?

And,  when you say that you would like to get the battery voltage to 2.76 from 2.64 (Volts Per Cell [VPC],  I assume),  what is it that you are trying to accomplish ? ??    If this IS VPC,   these EQ voltages,  equaling 31.68,  and 32.88 volts,  respectively.   Were you referencing using these voltages for the Absorb,  OR,  is the decimal point just shifted to the left one place,  and you wanted to get to 27.6 V,  instead of 26.4 V ?

If you are at or near the manufacturer-specified SGs,  then there is no reason to increase Vabs.

Yes,  with larger battery banks,  it is often a good idea to not change more than one setting at a time,  and to not make too large changes at any one time,  when the battery is getting fully charged,  or nearly so (by SG measurements).   And it is usually best to monitor the battery over a few charge cycles before making changes,  if  battery charging is getting close to the desired parameters.

As you know,  SG readings need to be temperature-compensated,  when using a Hydrometer,  but the compensation value is fairly small,  and can be ignored when the battery temperature is about +/-- 10 degrees F,  of your reference temperature of 77 or 80 F (usual Ref Temp).

Out of curiosity,  what is your battery temperature, as noted in the Temps page on the MNGP?   Assume that you have completed your Home Brewed BTS.

Thanks!   Vic

[Resthome]

Thanks for the connection of the WBJr telling me how many amps are going into the battery!  Duh.     When I put the clamp meter on the neg cable, I was in range although it was changing constantly.  Close enough for government work. 

Good to see its more in agreement.  The amp reading is a little noisy. Mine varies 0.5-1.0 A.  So I have to allow for this in my end amps setting.  BTW if you use the LA you can dump the WBjr reading for a day and you can plot it in Excel and see the amps as they level (flatten) out. That plus 1A is where you want to set EA. You just need to make sure the time for Absorb is long enough for it to reach this setting. Some where in the forum I posted one of my graphs. I'll try to locate it.

[BobWhite]

hi John,
Quote
BTW if you use the LA you can dump the WBjr reading for a day and you can plot it in Excel and see the amps as they level (flatten) out. That plus 1A is where you want to set EA. You just need to make sure the time for Absorb is long enough for it to reach this setting.

I don't like Windows but do have a Win 7 machine here for the sole purpose of working with the controllers and logging as the Macs don't seem to be so friendly! when you get a chance could you elaborate on how to plot it in excel? When it comes to any computer im not so bright, I would be gratefully appreciated but no hurry on my behalf! Thank you!!!

Walt

[Resthome]

hi John,
Quote
BTW if you use the LA you can dump the WBjr reading for a day and you can plot it in Excel and see the amps as they level (flatten) out. That plus 1A is where you want to set EA. You just need to make sure the time for Absorb is long enough for it to reach this setting.

I don't like Windows but do have a Win 7 machine here for the sole purpose of working with the controllers and logging as the Macs don't seem to be so friendly! when you get a chance could you elaborate on how to plot it in excel? When it comes to any computer im not so bright, I would be gratefully appreciated but no hurry on my behalf! Thank you!!!

Walt

If you monitor with the LA for the whole day you can select to export various pieces of data. I just select all of them. It's a CSV file that you can read with Excel. You have to convert the time column to your time zone as instructed in file. You can then insert a line graph selecting the WBjr Amp data vs time. Here is what you get.

http://kb1uas.com/mnsforum/index.php?topic=2364.msg22539#msg22539

[BobWhite]

Thank you John,
One of these days I hope to make sence of the Microsoft office programs

Walt

[elesaver]

One final update on this thread.  I received a lot of suggestions and information and appreciate all of it.  I had mentioned that I wanted to let the system run for a few days to see how it was doing.  Those few days turned into a few more than planned but I did want to
update.

I changed some of the settings on the cc.  The absorb voltage is 29.5; Float 28.0; Float time 2'15".  System now works like a champ! For more than a week, the aH has returned to 938.  This is what I was looking for.  The manufacturer said that 1.285 is the SG that I need and that is holding, as well.  Water consumption has not increased either.

So, all is well...at last.  This is how I had expected things to work...and now they do.

Yes, I did complete my "homemade" BTS and its reading corresponds with a mercury thermometer reading so I think things are looking quite promising.

Thanks to all of you who have interjected information that is helpful.  Hopefully, if there are others with forklift batteries, this info
may be of help to them, too.  So, a Merry Christmas to all and to all, a good night. :-)

[Vic]

Hi elesaver,

Thanks for the update ...   we had wondered just how you were doing.

Glad that the battery has come into line with your expectations/needs.

Also great to hear the you completed your HomeBrewed Battery Cap BTS,  and it is tracking with your in-electrolyte mercury thermometer.   Good Work,  all around.

Thanks,   Vic