Homeade Voltage clamp

[keyturbocars]

This SSR would be wired "upstream" of the rectifier and would be controlling 3 phase wild AC.  The Classic would be monitoring the DC voltage level, and when the voltage reaches a limit set to protect the Classic, the aux relay output would send a control signal to the SSR.  The SSR relay would effectively dump the 3 phase output or short it out to slow (brake) the turbine.  This is a great idea that Ryan presented for a homemade Clipper.

Edward

[mike90045]

This SSR would be wired "upstream" of the rectifier and would be controlling 3 phase wild AC.  The Classic would be monitoring the DC voltage level, and when the voltage reaches a limit set to protect the Classic, the aux relay output would send a control signal to the SSR.  The SSR relay would effectively dump the 3 phase output or short it out to slow (brake) the turbine.  This is a great idea that Ryan presented for a homemade Clipper.

Edward

Better check on how the SSR works with >120 hz wild AC.   What's the freq when it's really spinning in the wind? 300Hz ?  700Hz      At >120Hz, the relay may work "differently" .

[boB]

This SSR would be wired "upstream" of the rectifier and would be controlling 3 phase wild AC.  The Classic would be monitoring the DC voltage level, and when the voltage reaches a limit set to protect the Classic, the aux relay output would send a control signal to the SSR.  The SSR relay would effectively dump the 3 phase output or short it out to slow (brake) the turbine.  This is a great idea that Ryan presented for a homemade Clipper.

Edward

Better check on how the SSR works with >120 hz wild AC.   What's the freq when it's really spinning in the wind? 300Hz ?  700Hz      At >120Hz, the relay may work "differently" .

Yeah, we certainly don't want the relay buzzing around at high frequencies, so the software tries not to allow that for that particular aux output (Aux 1)

The Classic has two (2) Aux outputs.   The one with the Relay can be jumpered to put out a 12V "signal" or can be the relay contacts themselves...  VERY low current contacts though, like, 1/2 Amp max.  This Aux 1 output is basically a slow aux output with an adjustable Delay and Hold time, , adjustable in 0.1 second increments. and High and Low ON and OFF thresholds, adjustable in 0.1 Volt increments.

Aux 2 diversion output is a few hundred Hz PWM 12V signal that can be triggered from Classic input voltage or battery voltage and operates over an adjustable voltage window, from 1V to about 5 Volts.  The smaller the window, the higher the PWM frequency, or about  500 Hz maximum.

If what we are all calling a SSR Solid State Relay is a thyristor, (Triac or SCR), (light dimmer switch), then it turns on when you tell it to, (as long as there is some current available), and turns off automatically at an AC zero crossing.  In the case of a wind turbine, yeah, it can be several hundred Hz.  They seem to work just fine at these frequencies as far as I have seen.

If thyristors are being used, I would say that Aux 1 might be the one to use.  Either Aux operates on average voltage.... It's not very slow, but will take a quick moment to change its reference point.  I will try and add a peak/average select for this if it works out better.

There will be more about this in the manual and online.

boB

[keyturbocars]

Sounds good boB!

[keyturbocars]

boB,

In the back of my mind, I've been chewing on what you wrote about Aux 1 and Aux 2.  Today, I had an idea pop in my head.  If I am understanding this right, then I think this might work... 

AUX 1 - Wire to a Crydom D53TP50D 3 phase SSR to divert 3 phase AC power to 3 phase dump load heater box that came with my HY-2000 wind turbine.  I plan to set the divert voltage to around 125VDC.  This would act as a brake for my turbine and a voltage clamp to protect my Classic 150.



AUX 2 - Wire in a Crydom D1D100 single pole DC SSR (MOSFET) that would monitor battery voltage and control the diversion load to my hot water heater.  The Crydom D1D100 SSR is a MOSFET design and is designed to handle up to 100A continuous and up to 100VDC.  I would set up the diversion right off my 48V battery bank.  Then I can eliminate the Coleman Air controller from my hot water heating system.
 

Here's the spec sheet on that Crydom D1D100 100AMP 100VDC DC SSR:

http://www.crydom.com/en/Products/Catalog/d_1_d.pdf

I would wire that Crydom DC SSR so that the control voltage circuit is in series with my water heater thermostat.  If the hot water heater hits 125F, then the water heater diversion shuts off that DC SSR.  This will very rarely happen in my household of 9 with lots of hot water use.   For those rare situations, then I'd plan to use my existing Coleman Air diversion controller set to a higher voltage trip point as an emergency backup diversion.  I already have a couple big 2kW load resistors (the big green type) that I can set up for a 4kW diversion as the emergency backup.

To summarize my rambling, I would have it set up with AUX 1 controlling my AC diversion to the 3 phase heater box.  The AUX 2 PWM output could "buzz" the Crydom DC MOSFET SSR to control my hot water heater diversion to keep my AGM battery bank at the recommended 53.2V float voltage.  As an emergency back up diversion load, I'd have the Coleman Air diversion set up to 4kW air heating resistor.

If I could get rid of the Coleman Air diversion controller as my hot water heating controller, that would be great!  I have a hard time getting it to keep my battery bank at the float voltage I want, because it's operation is so crude with 5 second sample rate.  My battery bank is just for emergency back up power, and it normally just needs to be kept in float mode.

Does this make any sense?  Am I understanding (at least a little) the way that AUX 1 and AUX 2 on the Classic could work, and does this sound like it could work?

Just tell me if I am full of hot air and confused beyond all hope!  It wouldn't be the first time!

Edward 

[boB]

boB,

The AUX 2 PWM output could "buzz" the Crydom DC MOSFET SSR....

Just tell me if I am full of hot air and confused beyond all hope!  It wouldn't be the first time!

Edward 

No, I don't think you are full of hot air, but you might be full of hot water pretty soon !  BTW, why does everybody want to heat hot water ??  Don't they want to heat cold water ?

I believe that what you are talking about doing is just fine and appropriate for those particular SSRs...

I think the 125V 3-phase portion is good because it is driven off the "slow" non-pwm (non-buzzing) diversion and will be set to divert when the PV input voltage rises above 125 Volts DC and you can set the LOW voltage to turn off somewhere below, say, 123 VDC.  This is appropriate for an SCR or Triac type of SSR, too, especially running the turbine into a load like what you are describing for the HY-2000.

Aux 2...  I like your use of the word "BUZZ".... I think that could be a great "Buzz word" for the hundreds of Hz PWM used in Aux 2.  And a FET type of SSR for the DC side  should be perfect here.

You can set the diversion threshold V to either be absolute, (pick a voltage), or a voltage relative to the particular charge stage the system is in at the moment... (Absorb, EQ, Float)  This  diversion mode can be adjusted to start diverting (Pulsing or "Buzzing")  at (0.0) or above / below the present battery set point voltage (absorb, float, EQ).  You most likely will want to adjust it slightly below the setpoint voltage....  For example,  -0.3 Volts.   There is also a voltage "width" adjustment, the voltage width being the range where the PWM goes from a short pulse, beginning right at the charge setpoint voltage, and full on at the diversion set point voltage "plus" the width voltage.  For example, if the Controller is presently Absorbing (voltage regulating) at 14.5 Volts and the Aux 2 Relative threshold voltage is set for -0.3 Volts, the Aux 2 diversion PWM pulsing or "buzzing" will start to become ACTIVE when the battery reaches 0.3 Volts below 14.5 volts.... (14.2 Volts and if the Width adjustment is at 1.0 Volts)...  The Aux 2 diversion output would be fully Active (not pulsing anymore) at 14.3 V ~PLUS~ 1.0 Volt or, 15.3 Volts.  This voltage width gives the PWM diversion function some "room" for the SSR and loads to work. How much of that voltage width is actually used depends on the value of the load resistance, (your water heater), and the amount of power available from the source (PV or turbine)  If the diversion load resistance is not low enough, it will not be able to load down the battery enough and will more likely approach the full voltage width....  The higher the diversion load is, (lower resistance), the less width will be used.  This leaves some room for more available power to be diverted.   However, the diversion load resistance doesn't want to be TOO low, or the diversion operation won't work quite as smoothly as it would if it has SOME room to move about.

Aux 1  diversion mode is similar to Aux 2 diversion mode except that it does not PWM, Pulse or buzz at hundreds of Hz rate.  Instead, Aux 1 diversion goes Active at or above the "High" voltage setting, after a programmable "Delay" time, and goes Inactive when the voltage drops below the "Low" voltage setting after a programmable "Hold" time.  These Delay (or Attack) and Hold times are adjustable in 0.1 Volt increments.

The Aux Relative Voltage adjustments are referenced to the temperature compensated Absorb, Float or EQ voltage.  In the Classic, the EQ regulation voltage can be chosen to be either battery temperature compensated or not. This choice is picked in the Charge -- Temp-Comp menu.

In battery relative diversion mode, when either Aux outputs go "active", either solidly for Aux 1 or pulsed for Aux 2, you can choose to keep the charge timers and counters running (or not) for the Absorb and EQ stages so that the controller will go to Float when that charge stage is finished (its timer has expired).  This could be important, because the diversion might be holding the battery voltage below the desired set point voltage for that charge stage.  As long as the Relative diversion threshold voltage and absolute Absorb, Float and EQ voltages (charge menu) are chosen with some degree of thought, using the diversion in concert with the normal "raising the input power source voltage" method to regulate battery voltage, can work very well for battery charging cycles. You might want to set the absolute a few tenths of a volt higher than usual so that the diversion mode can be used to greater benefit. This will help to ensure that if the diversion loads go away, the battery voltage won't go TOO much higher than desired and battery over-gassing would be minimal. Using diversion in this way is what we call "Use It Or Lose It" mode  (Ui-Loi)...  Just think of the song, "Louie-Louie". 

For Relative diversion using Aux 1 or Aux 2, the default to keep the charge timers running will be enabled.

Aux 1 and Aux 2 outputs can also be chosen to be "Active High" or "Active Low"...  Active "High" is the normal mode of operation and means that the Aux output will be at 0 Volts (ground) when Off and  12 Volts when On...  Low, being  0 volts and High being 12 volts. Active High is shown in the Aux menus with a "+" sign following the mode name and Active LOW mode with a "-" following the name. The output voltage for a High is actually more like 14 or 15 Volts DC and can supply up to 200 milli-Amps of current.

Aux 1 also has a (small) relay that can be jumpered into the circuit if an isolated switch is needed.  This might be used to start or stop a generator. Remember though that this is a very small relay with 1 Amp rating and a series 1/2 Amp resettable fuse in series with it to help protect its contacts.

boB

[keyturbocars]

BTW, why does everybody want to heat hot water ??  Don't they want to heat cold water ?

Good point! 

Thanks for all the great info boB!!  My brain will be feasting on this information.  No doubt I'll read it through more than once, so I can digest it all.  I'm finally ready to start ordering parts... including one of those rare Classics made of unobtanium! 

Amazing what the Classic can do!!  It's definitely smarter than I am!

Edward