Rosie , RFi to ham radio , especially weak signal VHF and UHF

[subwayrocket]

Midnight Solar Rosie , RFi to ham radio , especially weak signal VHF and UHF ~ (SSB and Digital modes , NOT FM)
I operate predominantly weak signal, VHF (ssb and digital modes) i also do HF just for fun. I have a Samlex PST-3000 inverter and i have zero RFi . I just upgraded to 2500w of PV , a TriStar 60A mppt and a Victron 250/100 , not yet connected . RFi is the only concern remaining before i buy either a Rosie or a pair of Victron multiplus 3000-48 or a victron 5000-48 or Schneider XW Pro 6800w .

Being in a very remote, off grid location, my local noise is literally s0 ...sometimes s1 on 6m and 2m and most of HF .
Sometimes HF can get up to maybe s3 on a bad day or if storms on the horizon.
 
The Rosie checks the most boxes for my off grid application in a remote area. Thanks ! 

https://www.qrz.com/db/N3YY

[qrper]

Midnight Solar Rosie , RFi to ham radio , especially weak signal VHF and UHF.
I operate predominantly weak signal, VHF (ssb and digital modes) i also do HF just for fun. I have a Samlex PST-3000 inverter and i have zero RFi . I just upgraded to 2500w of PV , a TriStar 60A mppt and a Victron 250/100 , not yet connected . RFi is the only concern remaining before i buy either a Rosie or a pair of Victron multiplus 3000-48 or a victron 5000-48 or Schneider XW Pro 6800w .


The Rosie checks the most boxes for my off grid application in a remote area. Thanks ! 

While I don't do weak signal VHF/UHF work, I hear zip out of Rosie on the HF bands. At least there is nothing that jumps out and touches you.  My local noise level is between S-7 and S-9 most of the time, and I live in a rural sorta location. Houses and corn fields... then some @^# decided to sell the corner and a gas company build a mega gas station open 24/7/364. They close on Christmas eve, closed on Christmas day. And, nope, the station doesn't generate RFI. I use the two days they are closed to check my noise level and it's still normal even when the station is closed.

Mike

[boB]

I have to be truthful about this but my experience at my place with Rosie and HF has not been as good as  Mike's.   BUT Mike's and my ham setup are, I'm sure, different.   My Rosie and Barcelona and Hawke's Bay are in the same room as the HF radio, although at opposite ends of the long Arizona room.

Also, my end-fed 40 meter antenna runs right over the Rosie and that equipment above the house.

I have NOT added ANY ferrites or anything to mitigate the HF noise which appears about every 30 kHz which makes sense.  The Rosie is also not grounded except when it is connected to AC input.   I have not done any special grounding.

At one time, I noticed that the Rosie RFI was worse during charging but that was not very scientific at all.  That time I backed my mobile into the building that had a Rosie hanging on our show display here at the factory.

I have not checked VHF or UHF but I would expect any RFI up there to be MUCH less than on the HF bands.

boB
K7IQ

[qrper]

I have to be truthful about this but my experience at my place with Rosie and HF has not been as good as  Mike's.   BUT Mike's and my ham setup are, I'm sure, different.   My Rosie and Barcelona and Hawke's Bay are in the same room as the HF radio, although at opposite ends of the long Arizona room.

Also, my end-fed 40 meter antenna runs right over the Rosie and that equipment above the house.

I have NOT added ANY ferrites or anything to mitigate the HF noise which appears about every 30 kHz which makes sense.  The Rosie is also not grounded except when it is connected to AC input.   I have not done any special grounding.

At one time, I noticed that the Rosie RFI was worse during charging but that was not very scientific at all.  That time I backed my mobile into the building that had a Rosie hanging on our show display here at the factory.

I have not checked VHF or UHF but I would expect any RFI up there to be MUCH less than on the HF bands.

boB
K7IQ

It could be that my local noise is masking any RFI that Rosie is generating, but haven't noticed anything out of the normal here in my shack. Rosie is mounted in the garage, not too far from the shack. It is well grounded as the rest of the equipment.

Mike

[boB]

What is your background S level on HF ?  And is it wideband ?  Everywhere on the bands ?

Of course that background more than likely comes down as the frequency goes up ?

Here in Everett, WA  my HF background is an S9+ all over except maybe coming down around 15 meters.

We had a fire a couple years ago that made the grid around here go off for a few hours.  I ran my HF radio off of a 12V battery and it was dead silent background and HF came through loud and clear.

When the power came back on, the background noise was as bad as it was a few hours earlier.  I then turned OFF my whole house and that did not change anything one little bit.  That shows that it may very well be radiating from the power lines.  Using a portable spectrum analyzer does not get me close to any RFI source.  I have to go many blocks away to have lower EMI.

That is why I only do mobile HF up here now.

My place down in AZ is quieter and I can actually work some HF from the house there.

Maybe this weekend I can get a bit of low RFI when a friend and I go camping sort of in his RV for field day.


boB

[ClassicCrazy]

Bob that really sucks about the noise level there.
I had a friend in town near here who was getting wiped out by S9 plus noise on six meters. We tracked it down using my HT . It came from a house about a block away. The folks there were really nice when we explained and let us in the house to track it. It came from power supply from an electric blanket and unplugged the noise was gone. I looked up that blanket and it had a recall for fire hazard so the people there were happy we let them know.
Then the next day there was another noise ! I tracked that down and it actually came from another ham friends shop a block away and it was his cordless telephone. But the noise only happened when message was left on the answering machine part of base unit. Our friend said he never uses that answering machine part but it got turned on accidentally that weekend.
There is so much rf noisy stuff out there !
Larry

[boB]

That's some amazing RFI detective work Larry !

Wish my problem here was not just a wideband non-localizable issue.

The power lines in AZ are underground so that might be helping me there possibly.

boB

[ClassicCrazy]

I saw a video on  youtube where a guy mounted a small yagi with a scanner and attenuators so he could point it around narrow down noise coming from specific power poles that had bad connectors or other problems.
I bought some things to make one of those but never did - maybe a project for next winter.
Maybe I can find that video again .
Larry

[ClassicCrazy]

I found a different video where he made a small loop to track noise with. Looks simple enough to build.  He found the noise was a cheap battery maintainer on a lawn mower at house in the area. I guess in a city you might be lucky if it is just one noise source but there could be multiple sources!  https://youtu.be/Pwbk8yP6SIk

[boB]

That guy has some pretty neat videos.

I also liked the one about operating ham radio down in the nuclear bunker !

Would love to have one of those !

[qrper]

Bob that really sucks about the noise level there.
I had a friend in town near here who was getting wiped out by S9 plus noise on six meters. We tracked it down using my HT . It came from a house about a block away. The folks there were really nice when we explained and let us in the house to track it. It came from power supply from an electric blanket and unplugged the noise was gone. I looked up that blanket and it had a recall for fire hazard so the people there were happy we let them know.
Then the next day there was another noise ! I tracked that down and it actually came from another ham friends shop a block away and it was his cordless telephone. But the noise only happened when message was left on the answering machine part of base unit. Our friend said he never uses that answering machine part but it got turned on accidentally that weekend.
There is so much rf noisy stuff out there !
Larry

Okay, quick story.

When we had our home build, about three years later, I had such RFI, ham radio was impossible. 20 meters had noise of 30+ over S-9. Noise from one end to the other end of the band. All HF use basically useless!

Called Ohio Edison. They came out Told them what I had. Showed 'em the AM radio in my hand that was completely saturated with noise, 15 foot from a power pole. They did their thing, told me there wasn't nothing wrong with my power. Tried to explain the power was fine, but the noise generated trashed all AM broadcast for a mile in all directions. Again, I pointed to the suspect pole. One of the guys shrugged and said they didn't know anything about noise.

Fast forward a week and we had one hellava storm roll in. Lightening struck the suspect pole and took out two of the three transformers. (three phase to the gas station) . Ohio Ed replaced the transformers, and the noise was gone!

mike

[boB]

Okay, quick story.

When we had our home build, about three years later, I had such RFI, ham radio was impossible. 20 meters had noise of 30+ over S-9. Noise from one end to the other end of the band. All HF use basically useless!

Called Ohio Edison. They came out Told them what I had. Showed 'em the AM radio in my hand that was completely saturated with noise, 15 foot from a power pole. They did their thing, told me there wasn't nothing wrong with my power. Tried to explain the power was fine, but the noise generated trashed all AM broadcast for a mile in all directions. Again, I pointed to the suspect pole. One of the guys shrugged and said they didn't know anything about noise.

Fast forward a week and we had one hellava storm roll in. Lightening struck the suspect pole and took out two of the three transformers. (three phase to the gas station) . Ohio Ed replaced the transformers, and the noise was gone!

mike

FANTASTIC story !

I'll just order up some big lightning !
 

[subwayrocket]

What is your background S level on HF ?  And is it wideband ?  Everywhere on the bands ?

Being in a very remote, off grid location, my local noise is literally s0 ...sometimes s1 on 6m and 2m and most of HF .
Sometimes HF can get up to maybe s3 on a bad day or if storms on the horizon.
 
The Rosie checks the most boxes for my off grid application in our remote mountain top area. Thanks !

https://www.qrz.com/db/N3YY

[boB]

I have NOT compared other inverters with the Rosie in my AZ lab/shack.

It may be that my shack/lab will have just as much RFI with other inverters as the Rosie, there.

I hope to do this comparison next time I am down there which should be within 3 months or less I hope.

Also, some think that  "low frequency" inverters are lower noise than HF inverters.

But actually, LF inverters are HF switching frequency as well.  It's just that they use a heavy low frequency steel laminations transformer.  BUT their switching is done only on the low voltage battery side of that transformer.

I remember at OutBack Power, the FX/VFX inverters also had RFI when inverting and charging.
They had some filtering done to it but I don't remember if it helped or not or whatever.

boB