New Off Grid Inverter Charger

[BioPower]

I have 2 Trace 4548e Inverters both built last century, one is still going strong the other is not sensing output current saying the breaker is tripped, I will get around to fixing it one day. If your new ones will be as robust, reliable and flexible as these you will certainly be getting some of my dollars.

I was talking a little while ago with an Engineer from a local Australian company that manufactures very well liked inverters. He had not heard of Trace before and was surprised to hear how mine was still going at 17 years old. Apparently they don't use components that are designed to last that long.

[tecnodave]

I'm still using ones older than that....2 of the first true sine wave inverters built.(edit....comercially marketed)...The Dynamote Brutus.......still going strong......I don't even know how old they are......still working flawlessly.
Built stronger than a brick sxxxthouse.....handles bigger startup loads than my 4 kW Magnum.....it's 3200 watt 120 only but will start my 2 hp 120/240 compressor wired for 120 where the Magnum will stall starting it at 240 volts!.......ok Brutus has a surge capability of 11.6kw where the magnum is 5.8kw.   Whopping 96 watt idle.........I don't leave these on, only turn on to run highly inductive loads that other inverters can't handle

Designed in part by Milt Rice......he later joined the crew at Trace.......the roots of outback, Magnum,and MidNite

Dave

Edited for clarity

[BioPower]

Interesting, mine starts air compressor etc but does not like my abrasive metal cutting saw, I have had to add a soft start to it otherwise the Trace inverter shuts down.

[tecnodave]

Different kinds of motors have different startup charastics, motors with two capacitors on top are capacitor start/capacitor run.... Basically a capacitor combined with the inductance will cut the startup load......hence easier starting for those kind.....  Technically the capacitive reactiveness balances out the inductive reactiveness of the windings providing a better power factor to the supply ( inverter) which results in less power to start.

In my case the air compressor motor has only 3 windings, 2 running and 1 starting....so on 120 volts the start is underpowered resulting longer startup.....and on 240 the start winding is overpowered drawing over 40 amps for a short time, the Magnum chokes and shuts down.

Looking inside the two inverters, the Magmum looks puny.....very small bus bars...(boB commented on their design on this forum about the size of the bus).  The Brutus is a tank....transformer is much larger.  Like the ones in the SW's.     That is the key to overload capacity.

I'm pretty brutal on inverters , I do field service work and have aux. Batteries and inverters in my work truck in addition to a 4 kW Onan generator to run power tools.

I let the magic smoke out of 3 Zantrex ProSine 1 kW units......I get better life out of the Cotek
SK-1500 than the ProSine units,

Be careful with a Delta chop saw......those guys throw out a whopping spike on blade braking....inverter did not survive

Dave

Work truck setup: 3 ea GC-8 (24v) running Cotek 1500 and Brutus.....one or the other....main engine dual alternators. 12v/130amp.motorcraft &  24v/100 a Leece-Neville  130 amp fork lift charger (120v/24v) Onan Emerald 4

[BioPower]

The saw I am referring to has a universal motor made by DeWalt. Everything we use is 50 HZ single phase 240 volt or 3 phase 415 volt. The Trace is 230 Volt but it seems to run around 235 most of the time anyway, I doubt that little difference would matter anywhere.

Does anybody run a welder off an Inverter? I have a 240 Amp MIG welder, I have never been game to try that on the Inverter, 8 KVA Lister Generator has no problem with it.

[tecnodave]

BioPower,

That saw has the same motor but does it stop real fast when you release? The brake circuit did the huge spike, I don't think the abrasive saw has that same stop. They are series wound rotor AC/DC motors which do not have a huge start surge, I'm surprised that the Trace can't handle it. I use a Miller 120 volt powered 130 amp mig welder on Brutus or Magnum with no problem, it's transformer operated.  Some of the newer Miller mig welders are switching mode power supply and will run on inverter with no problem.

If you have one of the floor mounted mig welders.....I.e. Not benchtop,  I'd be reluctant to try it,
I use a friends Lincoln 255 amp and it's got a startup surge that dims the shop lites....50 amp input

Dave

[vtmaps]

Be careful with a Delta chop saw......those guys throw out a whopping spike on blade braking....inverter did not survive

Ouch!  Would the inverter have survived if you had a Midnite SPD on the inverter output?   

--vtMaps

[tecnodave]

Vt,


Didn't have one........when I buy a new midnite inverters they will have....for now I have three on my home sys.......one on each MN6PV combiner....MNSPD300DC...and one an AC output of system..MNSPD300AC......only AC input is Onan......totally trust those guys

I never thought about putting one on service truck but it happened......I have blown a dozen inverters doing mobile service......lots of cheepies.....3 Pro-Sine's.....ouch! Those are a grand a pop!....got a great deal on Cotek SK1500-24 (replaced by newer model.....still made but being phased out) so I got enough to fill a few magic smoke bottles!

Dave

[CDN-VT]

Does anybody run a welder off an Inverter? I have a 240 Amp MIG welder, I have never been game to try that on the Inverter, 8 KVA Lister Generator has no problem with it.

I do , I have a 48Vtrace running a gasless Mig , Im just on doing a convert to a Gas bottle & back up to .035 solid wire so I can
get some deeper depth penetration . I'm just doing small welds via the Golf-Cart .
Topic is here :
http://kb1uas.com/mnsforum/index.php?topic=3142.0

VT

Edit Add , Reading TD's post's  Im buying a few SPD's  JUST BECAUSE & to be SURE ..
VT

[BioPower]

My Mig is a big floor job, can weld up to 12 mm plate, mostly what I do is fairly light stuff though. But the big transformer in it is what worries me and the back EMF. The primary side is always the same regardless of setting, it switches windings on the secondary to control welding voltage/current.

I know some one who welds directly off his battery bank with a large transformer converted to be  choke and a long strip of stainless steel wrapped around a board in a spiral. To vary the current you just move a clamp to very the resistance through the stainless steel. Would nice to find a design for a PWM version of the resistor. DC welding like this is far better than using an AC stick welder.

[CDN-VT]

If IM welding 12mm / 1/2" plate & need depth of penetration  for Gama inspection , I would never be doing anything solar , crap a cloud while in mask , you WOULD cause more work in repair .
I have Fuel gen welders , to soldering battery irons , KNOW the WELD/JOIN

Mine is for light field work , more than that I'll load a screaming Diesel gen/welder .

VT

[russ_drinkwater]

Hi,
Send a pm to offgridqld!
I know Kurt uses a mig, milling machine, lathe etc regularly off his inverters.
From memory his workshop inverter is an elcheapo from taiwan but it handles the draws from the mig and now even his
car hoist!
Unsure what amps they draw, but he will be able to tell you exactly.
Russ

I use latronics here and they also are tanks, and weigh the same at times I think!

[dgd]

Ok you welder ppl, question
I have a Classic 250 that has suffered squashing and the top panel that bolts on is broken in 3 pieces, MNGP was sheared in two and the main box that has the inductors in it and FETs etc had the bottom plate and partially up one side where wiring bay is broken off.
I think the material is aluminum alloy.
I have this sort of weird idea to get the box and top fixed by having some obvious puddled looking welds so that when all together it has a battle scared survivor look to it.
Is this possible?

dgd

[Westbranch]

Dgd,  I think we are going to need a few pics before  guessing it can be done...

[dgd]

Wb,
I have left the remains with a tech at an alloy car wheel repairer but he didn't inspire confidence in me with his sharp intake of breath and head shaking as he viewed the bits. He seems to think I'm crazy with my repair ideas, will get some pics later.

dgd