New Off Grid Inverter Charger

[Halfcrazy]

In reality there is like 0 cost associated with making the inverter a charger as well. I guess there is some cost as there is another lug or 2 to hook the AC to. The reason most of the smaller less expensive inverters do not charge as well is mostly do to the fact they want to save time on writing code. So to have 2 identical inverters one that charges and one that doesn't would be the same cost.

What I do see though is a simple inverter that runs and works out of the box with no display or what not. If you want the advanced functions buy the remote?

Ryan

[cpm]

i'm not following why some of you are so against the built in charger. it really isn't a big savings to eliminate it and those off grid can still have need to hook a generator up to add to the charge of the battery bank. you act like this will be a $200 thing to have it in the inverter. it really is the inverter. you are thinking of separate chargers and that would add that kind of cost in that case, but not this case as nearly all the same components are involved. maybe one of the guys at midnite can fine tune for you guys what the real bottom line difference would roughly be.

Well, ,

I've had good luck with the morningstar sunsaver mppt charge controllers. Last I bought one it was just shy of $250, and it's very inexpensively made, and I'm unaware of any competitive product out there. I'd like to see something like this made by
a company I trust. I'd also like a small -as in 500w/1kw- inverter along the same lines.
No frills, just a brick with circuit protection.

One looks around at some of the, , ummm, ,, garbage, er, crap, ah, , stuff out there that gets sold under the guise of 'solar generator'. one could well imagine that there is a market for respectively low power PV stuff.

[Vern Faulkner]

Reading along and pondering my future - my needs are all around a 24-volt battery pack, which can provide a robust amount of off-grid juice, really.

My ideal package? Charger (for those days when sun don't shine for days on end - see also "winter," something we Canadians seem to specialize in), sine wave output, hard-wire-able enough juice to power a vacuum cleaner - so 1,200 watts. A load-sensing option would be nice, too.

What would be even better? A two-part inverter/chargers.
Part 1: 300-500 watts load-sensing, hard-wire-able, pure-sine output
Part 2: user switchable 1+ kw pure-sine output

The low-energy, load-sensing 300-500w output would power things like AC LED lights, small occasional-use kitchen gadgets like blenders and hand-mixers, computers/laptop chargers, and even washing machines (mine draws 190 watts after the initial surge).

Big things like, well, the vacuum cleaner could be plugged into the inverter directly into the 1+ KW outlet, but that would be switched so that when done, it turns off, and stays idle - not drawing power.

Thoughts?

[dgd]

MidNite, any updates available on what is happening with an MN off grid power inverter?
I would be extremely happy if MN were just to start manufacturing the Trace 4548E, I could use a half dozen of them quite soon 

dgd

[boB]

MidNite, any updates available on what is happening with an MN off grid power inverter?
I would be extremely happy if MN were just to start manufacturing the Trace 4548E, I could use a half dozen of them quite soon 

dgd

No, but here's an 18 year old video we did at Trace Engineering that kinda shows how
it was to make them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW0gTVMZaD4

boB

[vtmaps]

Now that the WhizBang Jr is shipping it's time to ask:  Will the forthcoming inverters be able to use WB Jr data to control charging?  If so, could the WB Jr connect to the inverter without a classic?

More broadly, how will generator charging integrate with solar charging?  (follow me?)

Let me give an example of what NOT to do.  The example is Outback's system: 

The Outback controller knows the battery current (through flexnet DC) and has a 'Global Amps' setting so that it will limit its output (during Bulk).  The Outback inverters do NOT regulate based on battery current and do NOT have a 'global amps' setting.

Therefore if I am running my generator (bulk charge) and the sun comes up, I may want to limit the overall current to the batteries.  With the Outback system, the controller will cut back on its output.  That is just the opposite of what should happen.   The generator charging should be scaled back and the solar charging maximized. 

--vtMaps

[laszlo]

Fun fun fun.  "Invert till it Hz"  haha. Like the part where the lady is trying to jack up the pellet -- do you all  remember how heavy these Trace's were? 

But this was dfferent technology which used  heavy tranformer(s) in the inverter, I think the newer designs are tranformerless. Still, a lot to be said about how clean the sine wave was  despite the fine "stepping".

MidNite, any updates available on what is happening with an MN off grid power inverter?
I would be extremely happy if MN were just to start manufacturing the Trace 4548E, I could use a half dozen of them quite soon 

dgd

No, but here's an 18 year old video we did at Trace Engineering that kinda shows how
it was to make them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW0gTVMZaD4

boB

[laszlo]

Typically there is transfer switch also, so when the shore power kicks in, then the transfer switch takes all the loads and transfer them to the shore power, and remaining  part of the shore power to charge.

But I am not crazy about this transfer switch solution.

In wintertime I actually use one of my two inverters for charging from generator so there is a nice even load on the generator and no power blips.

In reality there is like 0 cost associated with making the inverter a charger as well. I guess there is some cost as there is another lug or 2 to hook the AC to. The reason most of the smaller less expensive inverters do not charge as well is mostly do to the fact they want to save time on writing code. So to have 2 identical inverters one that charges and one that doesn't would be the same cost.

What I do see though is a simple inverter that runs and works out of the box with no display or what not. If you want the advanced functions buy the remote?

Ryan

[cpm]

i'm not following why some of you are so against the built in charger. it really isn't a big savings to eliminate it and those off grid can still have need to hook a generator up to add to the charge of the battery bank. you act like this will be a $200 thing to have it in the inverter. it really is the inverter. you are thinking of separate chargers and that would add that kind of cost in that case, but not this case as nearly all the same components are involved. maybe one of the guys at midnite can fine tune for you guys what the real bottom line difference would roughly be.

I guess, in my case anyway, it's because I just want a simple, easy to use in the field, (as in portable) true sine wave that just works.
PV(or whatever variable DC source)->charge controller(maybe, maybe not)->battery(ies)->inverter->JOY!

[DMJ72]

For the Caribbean market :

120/240v split phase @ 50/60hz switchable
Internal transfer Switch
High Surge capacity
48V

Basically if you guys could do something along the lines of the Conext SW, with Midnite's engineering expertise = A winner!

[animatt]

Well the context sw has a nice price point and some nice features, but idle powed consumption is horrible.  The big el tranformer i am sure does not help.  If going transformer route i would imagine a toroid transforming increasing efficiency and decreasing idle power consumption. Although as i understand it would need more filtering.

Any update from midnite on a future inverter?  Just came to the forum after a while of being away to check.

Matthew

[zoneblue]

Did you actually measure the new SW idle? The spec is huge almost 40W AFAIK

[animatt]

No.  Just from reading here and from wind and sun forum. Although i believe it was tbesame poster in.both cases.

Kind of makes sense they would a low budget system with some tradeoffs.  I think if idle power consumption was smaller it could eat in xw line sales.

I would definately want something like a sw in all specs except maybe 50% lower idle power consumption.  I would buy in a heart beat. Like I mentioned i believe it is possible with torodial transformers.

Matthew

[cpm]

Nigel, Yes we are developing a series of 500 watt inverters. We do not plan on these being a product for your market though. That would be something much larger. We want to get the bugs out of the design at this lower power level. The 500 watt battery based inverter matches the other two inverters also under development that create a "guys toy". I'm not sure we have disclosed the whole project yet? The inverter will be stackable using a simple phone cable and it will have PFC charging and two inputs and grid tie and communications,
SNIP

Soo, that was almost 2 years ago.


What news?

[Westbranch]

IIRC  in another thread, I believe Robin mentioned it is still in play but not at the top of the list so a while yet.  The turbine project had to get finished etc...