Classic with Separate Diversion Controller

[boB]

Would it be better to divert after the rectifiers or get a 3 phase str and divert the ac?
Would this change what the classic ''sees'' to do, the load being a resistor of some sort, instead of the battery bank?

Unless it is a properly controlled DC clipper controlled by our network, you will want to divert on the AC side of the rectifiers.

This method basically de-couples the diversion from the actual DC input of the Classic so that the Classic just sees that DC input voltage that it is operating at to want to be lower.  That's because the AC side is not producing less power (if any) at the rectified voltage appearing at the input of the Classic.

(I hope I didn't mess up that description)

boB

[cdog]

Yes, I follow...
I am curious though, if the mill is spinning fast because of the classic, making high volts,low amps and we instantly take the power from the ac side and send it to a different load than the classic, like an air heater, will this make the stator instantly see high amps as if it were direct coupled to a battery bank and little or no furling?
Would the turbine slow down fast enough to keep from frying the stator?

[keyturbocars]

I've got the major pieces ordered for my new wind turbine control system including a Classic 150.  It'll take a while for all the pieces to arrive here.  I still need to order some smaller odds and ends like breakers and such.  I ordered the Crydom D53TP50D 3 phase SSR for diverting wild AC to a 3 phase heater dump load.  This will be my "Clipper" to control voltage going into the Classic.  I ordered the Crydom D1D100 SSR to control diversion to hot water heater.  I've ordered a very big aluminum heat sink that I will set up with fins vertical to provide "chimney" convection cooling effect for the 2 SSR's and also the new 3 phase bridge rectifier. 

I decided to go overboard on the rectifier because cost difference was minimal.  I went with a Powersem (German made) PSD 192/18 which is rated at 248A and 1800V.  Overkill for what I need, but the price was right and I'd rather have a big factor of safety on the rectifier. I don't want a rectifier to fail and end up with a freewheeling turbine.  The heat sink is 10" long x 6" wide x 2" tall fins, so it should provide plenty of cooling for the SSR's and bridge rectifier.



http://www.powersem.net/Three_Phase_Bridges/Standard_Diodes/Baseline/PSD%20192.pdf

Slowly getting the pieces of the puzzle collected...

Edward

[Halfcrazy]

Yes, I follow...
I am curious though, if the mill is spinning fast because of the classic, making high volts,low amps and we instantly take the power from the ac side and send it to a different load than the classic, like an air heater, will this make the stator instantly see high amps as if it were direct coupled to a battery bank and little or no furling?
Would the turbine slow down fast enough to keep from frying the stator?

Yes as long as the turbine slowed down within a short period of time I would say a minute? it would take a while to burn the stator our and the very short (time wise) period it would spend at elevated amperage should not even warm the stator.

[cdog]

Thanks guys, Edward, what will you be using for a voltage switch to activate the 3phase ssr?

[keyturbocars]

cdog,

The AUX1 output on the Classic will control the Crydom 3 phase SSR directly.  That's the beauty of a solid state relay... requires very little power to control (unlike a convetional electromechanical relay with large coil to energize). 

On the Crydom D53TP50D SSR, it only consumes 10mA @ 5V to control the SSR.  At the higher voltage of the Classic (closer to 15V, I believe boB mentioned), it will use a little more power, but it will still be very low power consumption. 

It's nice to be able to control the SSR's directly off the Classic's AUX ports.

Edward

[cdog]

Thanks for all the info, sounds like the very same route I would like to go, keep us updated please...

[boB]

Would it be better to divert after the rectifiers or get a 3 phase str and divert the ac?
Would this change what the classic ''sees'' to do, the load being a resistor of some sort, instead of the battery bank?

It is best if you don't short out the input of the Classic or almost any other MPPT Controller.

If you are going to short things, even momentarily, you will want to do that with the AC side.

Loading the DC side just to keep the voltage from exceeding a pre-set voltage (a "clipper") is one thing....   Directly  shorting the DC side can break things.

Also, the shorting mechanism (triacs, relays, FETs, etc.) can break because you would be shorting out fully charged up  high voltage capacitors which store a lot of energy.  That is usually reason enough not to short the DC side.  

boB

[ibeweagle]

how about a blocking diode before input to the classic input dc side of course the write ratings for if the classic goes to sleep or hyper voc ?  yes it will be fun when the clipper get here too Did use a diversion morningstar controller on a wisper 500 but then again it was only for 48 voltbank  have to make a hyper deversion controller for the modle of the classic thats when the clipper will be good as then it wont bleed of the bank all the time. What is the diference in the clipper and clipper jr and can you order it without the box  rectifiers and resistors ? so it looks like a classic only it brother clipper  cheers Mike

[keyturbocars]

Thanks for all the info, sounds like the very same route I would like to go, keep us updated please...

Just a small update.  Most of the pieces have arrived here.  The Powersem rectifier arrived from Germany.  The Crydom D53TP50D 3 phase SSR arrived from Hong Kong.  The Crydom D1D100 DC SSR arrived already.  I received the big heat sink.  Cable, cable lugs, breakers have come.  Today, I received a Midnite MNEDC Quad circuit breaker box.  I'm still waiting for the Classic 150 that I have on order, but I'm happy to wait.  I know that Midnite is busy making software updates and getting Classics out the door.  Personally, I'd rather wait a bit longer and let the software get tweaked a little more.  Besides, we are in a calm wind period now (which is typical of winter).  And even after the Classic 150 arrives, it'll take me a little while to rework my wind turbine system. 

One thing I've learned over the years, that sometimes the process of doing a project can bring as much (if not more) enjoyment as the final result.  So, I'm not going to burn myself out trying to get it all set up immediately the day I receive my Classic.  I've done that many times in the past where I've rushed to finish something and as a result didn't enjoy the process.  I've done stuff like pull multiple all nighters to get a project done.  One time, I was working on a bigger car project, and I pulled 7 all nighters in a 2 week period.  I'd skip sleep for a couple nights in a row and then crash the 3rd night... pull another all nighter, then sleep the next night....  I was so eager to get the project done and I was determined to not take away time from family, so I was taking away the time from sleep.  Really caught up with me.  By the time I was finished, I was so wiped out that I didn't even enjoy the end result.  Also ended up going the doctor because my heart was doing funky things (irregular beating).  When the doctor found out how little I had slept, they said it was no wonder!     As I've gotten older, I'm learning to enjoy the journey too.  Now I tend to do projects in a way that doesn't take away too much time from important things like family, church, Bible study, and sleep too.  Although, I still tend to be a night owl.  Speaking of which... I better get off the computer soon. 

Anyway, I look forward to handing control of my wind turbine system over to a Classic, but I plan to enjoy the process of making the changes once my Classic arrives.  I even enjoyed all the learning and research it took to determine which components to order and how to set it up.  Always something new to learn.

It's all part of the fun.

Edward

[niel]

i hear you on the process thing, but more importantly, one doesn't want to overlook something by rushing through it. now the classic is programmable so it doesn't matter if you've already received one or wait 3 months. i will soon be connecting up my classic and i haven't really looked at how to go about the updates as of yet as i only skimmed that part before. i guess i should do some more reading huh?

as to when you have it up and running let us know your observations and results and put it both here and on naws as this is setting a new standard for wind and not just solar.

[boB]

i will soon be connecting up my classic and i haven't really looked at how to go about the updates as of yet as i only skimmed that part before. i guess i should do some more reading huh?

For the moment, here is a fuzzy, but hopefully informative video on how to update your code using USB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKhDxoBcCXw

There is also an Ethernet method of updating code, but we haven't released this yet and it doesn't update the MNGP Remote yet anyway.


boB

[keyturbocars]

I agree Neil.  No sense to rush through and overlook something.  I'd be happy to have my Classic already, but others have ordered before me so I'll have to wait my turn.

That's a helpful video, boB.  Will it only work with XP Pro (not XP Home)? 

I liked the Finish....  Or Swedish... humor embedded in the video.

Edward

[niel]

boB,
i don't think that's quite as simple as i was under the impression it was to be and i'm not sure if it's the same on vista or not, but i'd like the ethernet route if that is simpler. now is there a way to know ahead of time if one would have the latest or not without going through the procedure?

[boB]

I agree Neil.  No sense to rush through and overlook something.  I'd be happy to have my Classic already, but others have ordered before me so I'll have to wait my turn.

That's a helpful video, boB.  Will it only work with XP Pro (not XP Home)? 

I liked the Finish....  Or Swedish... humor embedded in the video.

Edward

Thanks Edward !   It should work fine with XP home as well however getting to the
control panel may be a different path than what was shown in the video.  In fact,
maybe you could see if you can find control panel, system, hardware on your XP.
If you can get that far, then I think it'll be an easy one.

boB