Barcelona

[stjohn]

Greetings.

Recently I replaced (18) Solar World 300 watt PV for (18) Silfab 430 watt PV. Then discovered the Classics 200's could not handle the new voltage no matter the string configuration and ordered a Barcelona.

OK, I received the new Barcelona Friday. I installed the ground and arc fault card and connected it.
I removed one of my Classic 200 charge controllers and spent the weekend rewiring my Midnite built dual Schneider 6048's.

I rewired the (18) Silfab 430's into two strings of (9) running to two Midnight disconnecting combiners which the run via 6 gauge wire to two DC disconnect by the Barcelona 50 feet away.

The Silfab are rated at 430 w - VOC 38.91 VMP 33.25 - ISC 13.87 IMP 12.93 I live in the Virgin Islands and the temperature never falls below 70 and rarely rises above 92 but the sun is extreme this time of year.

I tried calling support (Ryan knows me well) no answer! 3pm eastern time.

So I am asking for some assistance please.

First, look at the picture ... from the two PV breakers in the breaker box to the Barcelona.  Why do the red and black wires coming from the top of the breaker (-) route to the opposite lug (+) on the Barcelona i.e. red is coming from the (-) on the breaker but runs to the (+) on the Barcelona? Opposite for the black / (-) wires.  You see my wires from the PV (red) running to the (+) on the two input to the breakers.  I am totally curious why and if that may be the reason for my next question / s

I read a couple posts regarding the PV not producing much power in daylight and the Barcelona resting.  My system now has been "running " for 4 hours.  Overcast 90 degrees. Generally I would see maybe 3500 - 4000 watts with the old Solar World 300 PV.  Right now I just shut the grid off (I am net metered) and I am pulling from batteries and nothing from PV. (2) racks of EG4 LL batteries 60kw. (which I just charged each of the (12) batteries to 100% to balance them)  Whats up?

Also I want to "complain" about poor documentation (like no explanation on the buttons and the MNGP). I am accustomed to the Classics (over 13 years) but this is not intuitive. I question if I have all my settings correct.  I installed the app on my android phone. It appears it is only for firmware updates.  And it is seen by my phone (bluetooth) but just keeps searching. Also no description of connecting to the internet or any device for monitoring.  AND there is no app for a PC or the phone like the trusty Local App or My Midnite.  Very disappointing that I can not monitor except to stand in front of the Barcelona !

So I have several lighter questions and may have more if I can get the charge controller charging and not resting.

Thank you all in advance for "listening" and any input would be appreciated.

[ClassicCrazy]

first the breaker - if it is a polarized breaker the plus and minus signify that if the source voltage ( higher voltage ) comes into the breaker from the top then it would go to the positive and negative. Other breakers I have wired that are polarized with those markings the negative and positive on the other side of the breaker ( entering at bottom in your case) would be reversed. Someone can correct me if I am wrong. I have a detailed video on my youtube page that shows how I wired Hawkes Bay which would be pretty much the same as yours .
Regarding output to your batteries - that is really going to depend on your settings that the voltages setpoint are set to and your battery bms ,etc. If your batteries are full and you try to charge them the Barcelona won't be putting much power into them until the battery voltage drops . It is more critical on the Hawkesbay,Barcelona to get rebulk set correctly and the float.  Do you still have the other controller working too or just the Barcelona ? that can make a difference .
You are correct that there is no Midnite software to program or monitor the Hawkes Bay or Barcelona. Midnite gave that over to Solar Assistant to do ( monitoring part). That is a program that runs on a raspberry pi that you have to pay for. I wrote some software with AI help that will monitor the Hawkes Bay, Barcelona, and Rosie though I have only used it on Hawkes Bay and Little Rosie should work fine for Barcelona . It depends on if you are a bit computer savvy if you want to use that , or go for the Solar Assistant . My software might work on anything that runs python , but I am not sure on that. I use it in a container running on a pi5 but might work on older pi models, or a mini pc ?
Here is link to my github project
https://github.com/larduino/hawkesbay-can2mqtt
I also use Home Assistant so send all the data to that though it could be sent to other devices I guess because it is mqtt output.
This is the video on wiring up my Hawkes Bay though I made five videos about it so not sure this one shows the breaker wiring or if it is in another one
https://youtu.be/jsFOfkaCHU8
The menus have changed a lot with firmware updates since first videos I made, not sure if later videos I have on my youtube show more recent MNGP2 Menus
 
Larry

[stjohn]

Good Day Larry,

Wow, thank you for all of the information.  I did finally get through to James (tech support) but took a few more attempts. He also explained similar to you , the breaker wiring. I trusted what I saw but was curious as to why.

48 hours now since I fully commissioned the Barcelona and it is definitely working.  I just may need some additional help in some tweaks with either or bot the Barcelona and the Schneider XW's  I am seeing near 7000 watts out of the PV today (max rated 7740) (still have lots of Saharan dust / haze) but it shows me the Barcelona is getting plenty of power. It spent most of today charging the (12) EG4 LL from under 40% soc to now 98% soc. 

That is too long a period of time compared to when I had the Classic 200's and (18) 300 PV Monday.  And I have one Classic still mounted and wired to the Midnite PDP but no PV input.  Way too much to rewire everything to try a few new panels on the old Classic.

So I will reach out tomorrow and see if Ryan or James or if I am lucky Schneider support can assist diagnosing the issues I am having which are: why is it taking so long to charge batteries from 40% to 100% soc  (like over 6 hours with average 6000 watts) to Barcelona? Next why are my loads (averaging 2500 watts all day) not being covered by the PV?  Slow charging and no loads being managed by solar / batteries?  See a attached pictures from this morning and around noon.

As for your software I am interested and have some PC experience but may be a little beyond me. I may be interested in paying for the Solar Assistant. How do I reach them?

Lastly,  James was running through the menus with me (specifically the battery menu)and he mentioned that after Float setting the next was float time setting. I do not have that on my menu! He verified my firmware was latest and could not figure out why it is "missing" from the menu.  Two days and so far I remain in bulk the entire day but then I am charging all day.  There will be an answer I know. 

[stjohn]

Oh and some pictures from today

[ClassicCrazy]

Did you ever mention what setpoints you are using, and are you charging with both the schneider and the barcelona at the same time ?
According to my quick math your 12 batteries at 40% would take all day to charge at 7000 watts.
Don't trust soc reported by bms . Maybe they were really 20 or 30% .
Larry

[stjohn]

Larry, good afternoon.

No the dual Schneiders have the AC charging disabled. I probably used that feature two times in 13 years.  Just the (18) Silfab 430's and the Barcelona (previously the (18) Solar world 300 and the two Classic 200's

You are right to not trust the SOC and I never do but I use it for a quick reference.  It SOC may have been lower than the soc shown.  After I posted yesterday the Barcelona was still charging at 6pm and was still in bulk but voltage was 55.1 the went to resting a short time later (sunsets at 7pm). Also all but two batteries were at 100% soc and were within a tenth or two of a volt of each other. I was satisfied.

Today another (been almost two weeks of this weather) a hazy (Sharan dust) causing overcast and hazy conditions.  I have been out most all morning and when I returned batteries at 54v and the Barcelona was resting and my typical load at 2500 watts.  This brings in another question / issue.  Why am I resting when I could be selling to grid and suppling my loads?  I am net metered and sell is enabled.

To answer your other question which may also be a partial answer to my last question. My setpoints. Please which ones do you want to see? 

At this point I believe the Barcelona is working properly (maybe a little tweaking) but the Schneiders may be the culprit.  The other day James had me change the absorb voltage from 55.2 to 56.2. But I have not reached absorb yet in three days now.

[ClassicCrazy]

Depending on what your bms wants to see to reset the soc to 100% , and what it is programmed to balance the cells at , that determines some of what your setpoints should be.
Since I am using JK Inverter Bms in my batteries and can change the bms setpoints, what I use is what Andy at Off Grid Garage on youtube recommends. I charge to 55.2v which is 99% full. I have absorb time set to 30 minutes but might be longer- I would have to look again. That holds it at 55.2v so the bms can balance the cells if needed. I have been floating at about 54v and some of that depends on what the inverter likes to see when it turns on during a heavy load so it doesn't drag the voltage down too low before the controller can ramp up the pv input to meet the load.
If you want to do some really good monitoring and automations that you can set up however you want, I would suggest you get Home Assistant running.
Larry

[stjohn]

Again many thanks Larry. All very helpful

I did a search for Solar Assistant. Really not confident as to what I am looking for. I did not see any Midnite products listed.

You just mentioned Home assistant is that your software?  In either case I truly would like to monitor and even better remotely monitor so if you can nudge me along some more ....

[ClassicCrazy]

Home Assistant is an operating system. It will run on bigger raspberry pi like pi5 ( or maybe pi4) but I run it on a n95 beelink mini pc. Got this when prices were low a year or two ago . I have the mini pc running Proxmox server and the Home Assistant runs as a container on that. You can just do the whole pc of pi directly as Home Assistant OS .
Monitoring remotely is easy , there is a small program called Tailscale that you put in and then it makes a secure link which you can access from anywhere ( it doesn't need ports opened on the computer ).
I would have had some screenshots for you already but I can't copy and paste them here so have to do it a round about way.
I may have some saved already - if so I will add them now.

[Brucey]

Good Day Larry,

Wow, thank you for all of the information.  I did finally get through to James (tech support) but took a few more attempts. He also explained similar to you , the breaker wiring. I trusted what I saw but was curious as to why.

48 hours now since I fully commissioned the Barcelona and it is definitely working.  I just may need some additional help in some tweaks with either or bot the Barcelona and the Schneider XW's  I am seeing near 7000 watts out of the PV today (max rated 7740) (still have lots of Saharan dust / haze) but it shows me the Barcelona is getting plenty of power. It spent most of today charging the (12) EG4 LL from under 40% soc to now 98% soc. 

That is too long a period of time compared to when I had the Classic 200's and (18) 300 PV Monday.  And I have one Classic still mounted and wired to the Midnite PDP but no PV input.  Way too much to rewire everything to try a few new panels on the old Classic.

So I will reach out tomorrow and see if Ryan or James or if I am lucky Schneider support can assist diagnosing the issues I am having which are: why is it taking so long to charge batteries from 40% to 100% soc  (like over 6 hours with average 6000 watts) to Barcelona? Next why are my loads (averaging 2500 watts all day) not being covered by the PV?  Slow charging and no loads being managed by solar / batteries?  See a attached pictures from this morning and around noon.

As for your software I am interested and have some PC experience but may be a little beyond me. I may be interested in paying for the Solar Assistant. How do I reach them?

Lastly,  James was running through the menus with me (specifically the battery menu)and he mentioned that after Float setting the next was float time setting. I do not have that on my menu! He verified my firmware was latest and could not figure out why it is "missing" from the menu.  Two days and so far I remain in bulk the entire day but then I am charging all day.  There will be an answer I know. 

If you had a missing menu setting, assuming support had you do a factory reset to defaults already?

[Wizbandit]

I suspect FLOAT TIME is for the Rosie Charger...
I never paid attention, I have 2 systems, my House System AKA Garage Power Room only has Hawkes Bays and Classics with a Pre-MNAIO10K AIO Inverter, that system is missing the setting.  The Wood Shop System has it, 2 Rosies, 2 Hbays and a Barcelona.

JAMES

[FNG]

Float Time is only for inverters so without a Rosie or Little Rosie it will not show in the menu.

From what I am reading you are concerned over the time to fill the battery 60% correct?

12 batteries is 61.4KWH if we need to fill 60% that would be 37KWH at 6KWH would be 6.14 hours with no losses etc

[stjohn]

Good Morning Larry and also FNG and James. I was traveling but am back on St john and will be digging into all of your responses.  Thank you so much everyone.

Jay

[stjohn]

Good Afternoon Larry,

First, thank you again for staying with me on this.  I am back and am determined to resolve my rather small issues. It seems to me that you have suggested one major component that I desire, the software that you have created.

YOU SAID:

Home Assistant is an operating system. It will run on bigger raspberry pi like pi5 ( or maybe pi4) but I run it on a n95 beelink mini pc. Got this when prices were low a year or two ago . I have the mini pc running Proxmox server and the Home Assistant runs as a container on that. You can just do the whole pc of pi directly as Home Assistant OS .
Monitoring remotely is easy , there is a small program called Tailscale that you put in and then it makes a secure link which you can access from anywhere ( it doesn't need ports opened on the computer ).
I would have had some screenshots for you already but I can't copy and paste them here so have to do it a round about way.
I may have some saved already - if so I will add them now.

I see the screen grabs and would very much like this for my system.  The only thing you wrote above that I can understand is you used a Beelink mini PC. I have three running Windows 10 that I discontinued since they are unsupported now.  I assume that what you have would not be affected.

I am willing to ship to you a Beelink that you could configure so I just have to "plug in" and run your software if you are interested.  And I will pay for the software, shipping etc.  If you are willing.

In the meantime I need to get back to the Barcelona and Schneider's and figure out what is going on.  I mentioned I am net metered but currently not "selling" and still charging batteries but not utilizing the power I am generating from them.   But your software running would seem to be very helpful in monitoring so please let me know your availability to assist.

Thanks,

Jay

[stjohn]

A follow up reply post to FNG and James, ok, makes sense that without Rosie there would be no float time on the Barcelona menu. James at Midnite was surprised when I said I did not see it but hopefully he learned something new.

Yes FNG, I swapped out my 300 watt PV for 430 watt and the two Classic 200's of course could not handle the additional voltage so I ordered a Barcelona and commissioned it two weeks ago.  Afterwards I have had small issues like a slow charging and confused by some Barcelona settings that perhaps are really my dual Schneider settings ? ! ?

I never use Schneider AC charging and am on the grid (which goes down weekly) also net metered that I never really get credited for and have been shifting to living more off grid. I have upgraded my system over the past 13 years to (12) EG4LL 60 kw still use the dual Schneider 6048 and now the new Barcelona with the (18) Silfab 430 PV