Any word on Midnite's E-panel for this inverter? When will it be available??
Are there any pics of the beta products?
There seems to be a shortage of the AC & DC disconnect boxes from Schneider Electric!
EDIT : I now have this E-Panel, check out the pics later in the post ..
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69165939/attachments/solar/e-panel/unnamed-6.jpg)
Sorry to hear about that DM. I had asked midnite about a box for the sw months ago and I am no better informed than you about its existence. I bought a Schneider DC disconnect from altestore when I could no longer wait on midnite. So give them a call and see I'd they have any more.
Cheers...
Damani
Sorry for the delay. I have been under the impression we would have this product available for a long time now. I am no longer promising dates as I hate to mislead any one. I have asked Robin and the engineers again for a timeline and will post just as soon as I know anything.
Ryan
Quote from: dapdan on February 06, 2014, 06:51:24 AM
Sorry to hear about that DM. I had asked midnite about a box for the sw months ago and I am no better informed than you about its existence. I bought a Schneider DC disconnect from altestore when I could no longer wait on midnite. So give them a call and see I'd they have any more.
Cheers...
Damani
Hi Damani, yeah I am expecting my Conext SW 4024 by the end of the month. Did not want to use their disconnects, will connect it up to my MNDC in the mean time. I hope Midnite Solar's box for it is along the lines of what they do for the XW with AC bypass etc.
I don't think Schneider Electric realised how popular this product would be. My local store had 3 and they were gone in under a week :\
Quote from: Halfcrazy on February 06, 2014, 09:41:06 AM
Sorry for the delay. I have been under the impression we would have this product available for a long time now. I am no longer promising dates as I hate to mislead any one. I have asked Robin and the engineers again for a timeline and will post just as soon as I know anything.
Ryan
Thanks for the reply Ryan, I am sure it will be worth the wait .. Considering the exellent quality stuff you guys @ MS put out.
Welcome to the fold DM ;D.
Damani
ETL is starting their evaluation of the SW Conext E-Panel tomorrow. We do have parts available now although I do not think we have shipping boxes yet. The retail price of the basic E-Panel is $470. The AC bypass is an option. You can stack two of these together with a single AC bypass to control both inverters. Doug Andrews is the mechanical engineer in charge of this project. Call or e-mail Doug if you can't wait for ETL. He can fix you up. Most everyone at MidNite is available by e-mail by using their first name and midnitesolar.com. Such as doug@midnitesolar.com
Here is an ad we ran recently on the system.
Quote from: Robin on February 09, 2014, 04:34:09 PM
ETL is starting their evaluation of the SW Conext E-Panel tomorrow. We do have parts available now although I do not think we have shipping boxes yet. The retail price of the basic E-Panel is $470. The AC bypass is an option. You can stack two of these together with a single AC bypass to control both inverters. Doug Andrews is the mechanical engineer in charge of this project. Call or e-mail Doug if you can't wait for ETL. He can fix you up. Most everyone at MidNite is available by e-mail by using their first name and midnitesolar.com. Such as doug@midnitesolar.com
Here is an ad we ran recently on the system.
Actually the jurry is still out on the Dual SW. According to Schneider the Input AC neutrals and Output AC neutrals have to be isolated so the Inverters can monitor current. The issue I have with that is that if you BY Pass the inverters with the BY Pass and then remove the inverters you just lost the AC neutral to the house. It would seem to me the bypass needs to make the AC connection as well meaning we need a 3 pole breaker for the bypass.
If I have time I will try to get to the bottom of this Mon and Tuesday as I will be at the show with a bunch of the people from Schneider
I doubt Doug has room for another breaker, but I will ask.
Holy sweet e-Panel Robin! :):)
To think of it, I almost bought the Schneider DC/AC switchgear boxes on saturday. Glad I did not.
Things that I like so far :
* The price : $470 is less than the two separate AC/DC Schneider boxes together.
* Four Panel mount breaker spaces instead of two.
* Space for two SPDs below and two charge controllers above.
* SCU mounting.
* It looks Bitchin' while matching the look of the SW!
Will it have space for a shunt?, another drawback of the Schneider DC box.
Shunt comes standard. Talk to Doug about getting an E-Panel. It may not have a real shipping box, but that isn't important.
The reason we did this E-Panel is that three Schneider sales people came to us and asked for it. They knew that the Schneider boxes lacked features. By the way, the busbar for battery plus on the Schneider is only good for 80 amps. That is a big issue.
We have back plates available too, but if building this on site, you don't need it. That assumes you have some surface to hang it on that is suitable.
Robin
Holy @*#& 80amp only on the positive bus with a 250amp breaker. How the hell does that work. What happens when you exceed the amp rating. Is the DC panel from Schneider etl rated? I am a little worried here since I have one of those Schneider DC boxes.
Help!!!
Damani
The UL standard is very clear. Busbar ratings go like this: 1" x 1" = 1000 amps.
1" x .1" = 100 amps.
Magnum has a busbar connected to their 250 amp breaker inside their circuit breaker boxes that is 1" x .063". That = 63 amps!
I can't remember what the dimensions of the Xantrex busbar was, but it equaled 80 amps. Measure yours!
The busbar will run hot. Probably won't burn your house down or anything like that because inverters are not used on a continuous duty basis other than when charging, but we design ALL of our busbars according to the UL rules. It does cost more for sure, but we can sleep at night. How do these other companies get away with inadequate busbars? Rookie engineers and sloppy ETL and UL inspectors.
Ok Robin,
I went ahead and measured the buss bar in my schneider dc disconnect as it s not installed as yet and it measures 1" x 1/12"(0.083"). So by your calculation that would be 83Amp. So I guess you are right :'(. I have some tinned copper bars from some of my absolyte agms that measure 1" x 1/8" so push come to shove I could bend one of those lengths and add it to those already in the dc box that will bring it to 0.208" (0.125 + 0.083) to give me 200Amps.
So I guess midnite solar are using 1/4" bus bars then?
Cheers...
Damani
Quote from: Robin on February 13, 2014, 01:13:53 PM
Magnum has a busbar connected to their 250 amp breaker inside their circuit breaker boxes that is 1" x .063". That = 63 amps!
I can't remember what the dimensions of the Xantrex busbar was, but it equaled 80 amps.
Maybe it's a clever (?) scheme to use their bus bars as current shunts ::) --vtMaps
I don't know the size of our busbars. Doug does this work, but they are probably wider than 1 inch. They might be 2" x 1/8"?
Clever schemes are not allowed to break the rules. Xantrex just screwed up and it was over looked.
We just size the busbars to meet UL guidelines for current. Too bad nobody else does. Busbars are not cheap!
Well its here .. need to make some time to get it up on the board with the MNDC, then migrate to the e-panel when its ready.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69165939/attachments/solar/swwoot.jpg)
We just heard today that the SW E-Panel was approved at ETL. Doug can probably make labels in his lab for the first ones. You can now order an E-Panel.
Robin
Congratulations David. Welcome to the fold.
Cheers...
Damani
Quote from: Robin on March 01, 2014, 12:54:23 AM
We just heard today that the SW E-Panel was approved at ETL. Doug can probably make labels in his lab for the first ones. You can now order an E-Panel.
Robin
:D :D 8)
Quote from: dapdan on March 01, 2014, 01:45:29 PM
Congratulations David. Welcome to the fold.
Cheers...
Damani
:D :D 8)
We actually have 4 different projects going through ETL at the moment. There will be a couple more major projects being evaluated there within the next month also. We have been busy.
Too bad it is sooooooo expensive.
Quote from: Robin on March 02, 2014, 11:23:01 AM
Too bad it is sooooooo expensive.
Robin;
Sadly, all the really fun techie stuff follows this rule.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained my grand father used to say. :o
Tom
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69165939/attachments/solar/sw1.jpg)
Its up on the board in its temporary location, but no loads patched in as yet. Will use my clamp meter to test the idle Amp draw tomorrow.
Quote from: Robin on March 01, 2014, 12:54:23 AM
We just heard today that the SW E-Panel was approved at ETL. Doug can probably make labels in his lab for the first ones. You can now order an E-Panel.
Robin
Robin, I emailed Doug and he directed me to Ryan as he said he maybe handling the pre-orders for the Conext SW E-panels. I will be contacting him shortly. Doug was very nice and helpful. I even got a prelimnary .pdf manual for the E-Panel. There are no words to describe the service Midnite Solar provides. Ryan even helped me with a query I was having with my Conext SW!
Hi,
I was looking at www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/MNSW4024D-2CL150.pdf which I think was the diagram for the stacked SW e panel. I'm wondering how bypass would work without the neutrals also being switched?
thx
BTW, It looks to me that the neutral wiring diagram on page 26 of http://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/ConextSW_manual.pdf is wrong. The language seems to state the setup correctly, but the diagram has all the neutrals common.
Well Schneider has an issue here. The Neutrals in a dual stack need to be isolated. So AC in neutral and AC out neutral are separate. This itself has no bearing on the bypass as they are still electrically common they just use them for current sense.
The issue IS if the inverters are removed the neutral is opened. So what we do is put a large warning in there and tell you to install a jumper if the inverters are to be removed.
Ryan
OK thanks, that's what I thought. Although, IMO bypass should isolate the inverter. After all why would one use bypass anyway.
At least you have two neutral buses. It looks like there is space for two more breakers so one could add a bus and two breakers for neutrals.
The NEC does not like you breaking the grounded conductor (neutral).
Quote from: Robin on April 25, 2014, 01:32:02 PM
The NEC does not like you breaking the grounded conductor (neutral).
Are you saying NEC doesn't like the neutral to be switched via a breaker as opposed to a regular knife switch type of disconnect?
When do you see the grounded conductor broken? It isn't normally done in North America. We break the hot conductors only and keep the grounded conductors grounded. The exception is with a DC-GFP. Those are dangerous.
Does this help?
Thanks to Robin, Walter and the Midnite crew, my E-panel is in the Island. However, there is a holdup @ Customs as they have charged me the incorrect duty on said items. Idiots! :-\
As soon as I get it in hand I will post some pictures. The business where I buy my solar stuff is also keen to see it as this inverter is very popular here. Looks like they may be interested in ordering some.
It looks like I will NOT be using the AC IN of this inverter at all. Once the AC is qualified by the Conext SW, it switches over to bypass/charge. Only when the AC In is lost, does the unit Invert. This can not be overridden by the SCP. As we have excellent Sun in the Tropics, the utility is hardly ever used to charge the batteries. What we tend to do in a low battery / SOC condition is to switch over to AC bypass until the Solar charges up the batteries the next day or two. Generators are hardly used. In Jamaica, by law we have to have a connection to the utility once we are a certain distance from the pole. There is no escaping it.
The Magnum and the Outback inverters do this (YAY HBX!!!), however what Installers do for the other inverters is to use a AC transfer relay operated by the Charge controller's Aux input. The Conext XW has a mode (grid support or load shave not sure) that is used to achieve the same thing.
Schneider really dropped the ball with the muted AC IN functionality. In addition to these firmware issues with stacking, I am not sure if I am going to use it in future installs.
I am looking seriously at the Half Radian ... GS4048a. Its AC Modes are awesome, love that Grid-Zero!!
All inverter chargers work like the SW. They cannot invert and charge at the same time. The power just runs backwards for charging and then the other direction when the grid or generator goes down. The voltage range is determined by the transformer ration and electronics for regulation.
Some inverters like the FX and Magnum have HBX. We were doing this back in 1993 with the Trace SW inverter. I never liked it though. You can usually keep the AC input connected and just turn the charge current down to zero. That isn't HBX mode though. Be aware that HBX mode is going to wear out your batteries if you let the SOC go too low.
Quote from: Robin on April 27, 2014, 12:31:28 AM
.........Some inverters like the FX and Magnum have HBX. We were doing this back in 1993 with the Trace SW inverter. I never liked it though....
Yeah, thats one of the reasons Outback and Magnum do so well here where we like to use the grid for backup only (not charging). The Conext SW is making fast inroads based on its power/price ratio though.
I hope that future Midnite Inverter has a way of prioritizing Invert over Pass-through based on voltage/soc like HBX :D
Back on topic .. I ordered the Backplate, which should make for a really hot looking install! I can't wait!
Rest assured that when we do an inverter, it will have all the bells and whistles. Don't hold your breath though. IT is a long ways off.
Quote from: Robin on April 27, 2014, 04:06:25 PM
Rest assured that when we do an inverter, it will have all the bells and whistles. Don't hold your breath though. IT is a long ways off.
There is no doubt it will rock!
Its here!
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69165939/attachments/solar/e-panel/unnamed-6.jpg)
The powder-coat matches the Inverter perfectly. This may be Mid-nite's best E-panel design yet. You can see a lot of work was done to make it look fantastic. I see ventilation slots were added, which is great.
Finally getting some time to devote to this project ...
Here is it mounted...
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69165939/attachments/solar/e-panel/mounted.jpg)
More pictures when its done... ;)
So far all I can say, is that this thing is a beast.
Looks very nice. Would work even better with our Classics. You wouldn't need the Bogart battery monitor since the Classics come with our WhizBang Jr.
It does nook great though. Glad you like it.
Doug did good!
Quote from: Robin on June 20, 2014, 01:09:06 AM
Looks very nice. Would work even better with our Classics. You wouldn't need the Bogart battery monitor since the Classics come with our WhizBang Jr.
It does nook great though. Glad you like it.
Doug did good!
Thanks Robin :)
I went with the Schneider MPPT60's due to two main reasons :
* Its in the kitchen and the wife hates fan noise, so I needed a passively cooled controller(s).
* The Classic does not yet speak Xanbus ... so I would not be able to have central reporting to my combox :(
To facilitate the Schneider SCCs, I had to add two NEG(-) bus bars for PV in #1 & #2. Ended up using the Outback TBB as that is what is available locally. The Trimetric will be flush, on the front of the E-panel next to the SCP ;)
Very sweet David. I can say I would love to get one of those with my conext swbut I can't return the panel I have now.
Damani
Quote from: dapdan on June 20, 2014, 12:34:18 PM
Very sweet David. I can say I would love to get one of those with my conext swbut I can't return the panel I have now.
Damani
LOL :D you could always sell the Schneider e-panel and your inverter to a customer, and when the 48V Conext SW comes out .. you get the Midnite Panel! :)
That could work. I just need to find the sucker... I mean the customer.😊
Damani
I put on the cover today and powered everything up. Its running in testing for the week as I add another solar array.
What I have noticed with the Midnite Panel, is that due to its width and the design of the ventilation grill on the side, the whole thing acts like a muffler. It significantly mutes the noise of those two high speed fans, which can be irritating especially if its near a liveable space.
The wife is very happy.
Sometimes a reduced fan noise means reduced airflow and then increased heat. We take those things into consideration. Have fun with your MidNite muffler!
Quote from: Robin on June 29, 2014, 10:42:49 PM
Sometimes a reduced fan noise means reduced airflow and then increased heat. We take those things into consideration. Have fun with your MidNite muffler!
Yes I am!
The decision to put the charge controllers on the top was brilliant. I am noticing no difference in fan run-time vs when the unit was bare. The Schneider DC box's vent grill is mostly blocked by the charge controller :\
It is possible to put a charge controller on the side, but you just need to know how to do it.
We are looking at doing that. It helps to leave an inch between the box and the controller.
The XW controller is a couple inches thicker than the Classic too, so it blocks much more air.
Quote from: Robin on June 30, 2014, 01:05:07 AM
It is possible to put a charge controller on the side, but you just need to know how to do it.
We are looking at doing that. It helps to leave an inch between the box and the controller.
The XW controller is a couple inches thicker than the Classic too, so it blocks much more air.
I would like to use the SW (especially with the new 48V version with reduced tare loss thats coming out) in any future installs that its applicable for. The only thing stopping me from using the Classic is that it can't report to the combox re: the Array performance metrics etc. I am in hopes that Midnite will do a box like they did for the SMA SunnyBoy.
The SMA comm box took us about a year to develop. SMA cooperated by giving us some of their protocol. Schneider will not do this, so it would be pretty difficult to do. I do not think the effort would ever pay off. I am planning on putting our resources into our own inverter.
That will have a much larger pay off.
Quote from: Robin on July 07, 2014, 01:45:39 AM
The SMA comm box took us about a year to develop. SMA cooperated by giving us some of their protocol. Schneider will not do this, so it would be pretty difficult to do. I do not think the effort would ever pay off. I am planning on putting our resources into our own inverter.
That will have a much larger pay off.
Amen! That it will. :)
Voila!!
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69165939/attachments/solar/e-panel/atlast.JPG)
Almost 1 yr on from the purchase on this E-panel, and I am very satisfied!
I made some alterations to the sheet metal to accommodate the new Conext Battery Monitor which replaced the Trimetric ...
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69165939/attachments/solar/battmonSW.JPG)
This is the best looking SW I have seen. Good job!
Quote from: Robin on May 26, 2015, 01:05:33 PM
This is the best looking SW I have seen. Good job!
Thank you Robin! That means a lot to me :)
I am in the process of doing a SW install for my mom, but with the MNDC instead. This time I will be using a REAL CHARGE CONTROLLER, the Classic 150! 8) 8) 8) :o